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#238707 - 03/20/07 01:43 AM Furious behind cleaning
Nejwig Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 210
Loc: New York
I just woke up to the sound of little hissing coming from the glider cage. Although it didn't sound like hissing I've heard before when one of them has been constipated in the past.

When I dragged myself out of bed I noticed Suge in the Wodent Wheel furiously cleaning/licking his anus. He would lick with short hisses, run in the wheel for a second, and go back to cleaning his behind.

He eventually jumped into one of the pouches, which I took out of the cage to get a better look at what he was doing. The area he appeared to be licking didn't seem to be irritated or wet. Everything appeared relatively normal. After a couple of minutes of watching him he climbed out of the pouch and pooped/peed on me (thanks Suge) and then went back to licking.

The licking/cleaning/whatever he's doing seems to have calmed down. He's not doing it with such intensity as he was doing when I first woke up. He's functioning a little bit more normally, but every so often he'll stop and lick his butt, and then go back to what he was doing.

What does this sound like? Should I be watching for anything?

Thanks!
(Sorry if any of this is hard to understand. I'm still in half-asleep zombie mode).
_________________________
Jen

:wt: Kirby & :wfb: DeeDee



:rbridge: my beloved Suge (05/2005 - 12/25/2016) and Ollie (05/2005 - 08/01/2017)

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#238708 - 03/20/07 01:50 AM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Nejwig]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Was it like crabbing/hissing? Was he just licking or was there any chewing or biting?

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#238715 - 03/20/07 02:27 AM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: ]
Happy Birthday Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
That sounds like the onset of a UTI-it's what Chronos would do a day or two before the licking and crabbing started. I'd get the little one into a vet in the am, urinalysis run- have vet look for both bacteria and crystals, shotgun antibiotics for UTI, and make sure and bring home a pain med (torb) in case his discomfort increases faster than the meds can help. If a glider does progress to chew, they can do fatal damage in an extremely short time. Frequently the first day or two of a noticeable UTI, they'll do that when they first get up for a couple days and not so much after when the urine is more dilute than earlier. Unfortunately, it doesn't tend to stay that way.

I'd also pick up the materials for an ecollar, just in case. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.


Edited by Xfilefan (03/20/07 02:28 AM)
Edit Reason: add info
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#238763 - 03/20/07 07:44 AM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Xfilefan]
Nejwig Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 210
Loc: New York
Thanks a lot.

So far it was just hissing. No crabbing.
And he just seemed to be licking himself a whole bunch.
I stayed up for another hour watching him and the licking had pretty much settled down and he was regaining normal activity.

But I just called my vet and made an appointment for today. I will let you know the results!

What causes a UTI? Is this something I can prevent?

Thank you again for your help!
_________________________
Jen

:wt: Kirby & :wfb: DeeDee



:rbridge: my beloved Suge (05/2005 - 12/25/2016) and Ollie (05/2005 - 08/01/2017)

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#238792 - 03/20/07 08:26 AM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Nejwig]
Nejwig Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 210
Loc: New York
One more question before I head out the door.

Where can I get moleskin for the e-collar?

Thanks!
_________________________
Jen

:wt: Kirby & :wfb: DeeDee



:rbridge: my beloved Suge (05/2005 - 12/25/2016) and Ollie (05/2005 - 08/01/2017)

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#238796 - 03/20/07 08:35 AM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Nejwig]
Happy Birthday Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Wal Mart, or most pharmacy areas would have the molefoam and moleskin.

You can also use the lightweight food cutting mats in a pinch instead of the plastic, though it's a little stiffer.
You may want them to do fecals just in case to be thorough, but the symptoms sound just like 2 glider's UTIs I've had more than a few times, esp. with Chronos.

I'll make another post to answer the rest of your earlier question.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#238804 - 03/20/07 08:44 AM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Xfilefan]
Happy Birthday Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
UTI is caused when bacteria gets into the urinary tract/bladder. Left untreated it can involove the kidneys and even if they don't SM, can become life threatening at that point as it threatens to either go systemic, or kill the kidneys.

Males are more likely than females to get them, because they mark by rubbing their cloaca on things, and unfixed males are sometimes hanging out. Or if resistance is down for some reason, normal bacteria inside can go out of control. Crystals frequently accompany a urine that is very alkaline (high PH number, like 8 or 9), that is often seen with an infection or high dietary intake of phosphates.

There really isn't much you can do other than keep a relatively clean cage/pouches (and most of us do-and still get them sometimes) so when they rub, that bacteria on the surfaces isn't getting inside the cloaca. But no matter how well you clean, some bacteria will remain, and in the case of a glider, the more you clean the more they mark, as well. A lot of gliders will end up with one just from pure chance (a chance bug got in at the wrong time) and not through anything the owner did or didn't do, and a healthy glider probably won't repeat it. It probably has more to do with the fact they're confined in captivity than anything else-one of those things captive glider owners need to be aware of/look out for, that goes with the territory. Not a greatly satisfying answer, but hope it helps.

Edited to add: it was the word 'furious' that got my attention-when there's discomfort, there's a difference to their motions, and add hissing, and you want to pay attention. When Chronos did it (three separate occasions with his abscessed anal glands), it was the desperate licking hissing that progressed to desperate crabbing & licking (the SM noise), but before he added teeth to the mix. A couple days on the pain meds to allow the antibiotic to work kept him out of the collar (and constant watching), but all gliders progress at a different rate, so good idea to have the collar just in case.


Edited by Xfilefan (03/20/07 08:50 AM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#239047 - 03/20/07 02:30 PM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Xfilefan]
Nejwig Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 210
Loc: New York
Jen, thanks so much for all of your help!

I printed out this thread and took it to the vets with me to make sure that she took care of everything necessary. At first the vet thought he may have had a stone, because his bladder was so swollen and he wouldn't pee. They ended up doing an x-ray to check for any blockage and right as they did the x-ray Suge peed all over the place. So, yeah, no stone. smile

They did a urinalysis (she said she won't have the results until tomorrow morning) and injected him with fluids. She sent me home with antibiotics as well as pain medication. I actually had to ask her if I could have the pain medication just in case he self-mutilated and the vet said "Oh, wow, that's a really good idea. I didn't even think of that. I should go on that website."

So I gave her the website address and she said she'd check it out.

Suge seems to be doing okay for the moment, just cranky and sleepy. I'll give him his first round of meds tonight. Thank you again for all your help. I don't know what I'd do without this website!

_________________________
Jen

:wt: Kirby & :wfb: DeeDee



:rbridge: my beloved Suge (05/2005 - 12/25/2016) and Ollie (05/2005 - 08/01/2017)

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#239096 - 03/20/07 03:11 PM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Nejwig]
glidergrl1513 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 5725
Loc: Upstate NY
thanks for referring the vet to us! Glad to hear he's doing a little better, make sure you keep us updated!

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#239535 - 03/20/07 10:25 PM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: glidergrl1513]
Nejwig Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 210
Loc: New York
Well, I just force fed Suge his first dose of antibiotics to his distaste.

He seems to be doing OK for right now. He got really excited when I came home and jumped right to me when I opened up the cage. The vet told me I need to feed him lots of liquids to help flush him out, so I gave him a little bit of apple juice as well as some Gerber yogurt juice for now. The vet told me I can give him Gatorade? Is that true? I would assume the sugars would be bad, no?

I've been checking every time he's been going in the pouch, and he seems to be leaving his hind quarters alone.

I have an e-collar made and pain meds on hand just in case anything happens tonight. I hope everything is ok!

_________________________
Jen

:wt: Kirby & :wfb: DeeDee



:rbridge: my beloved Suge (05/2005 - 12/25/2016) and Ollie (05/2005 - 08/01/2017)

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#239539 - 03/20/07 10:31 PM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Nejwig]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
yes, you can give gatorade (I believe most mix it half and half with water), you can also give him straight pedialyte wink
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Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#239629 - 03/21/07 12:41 AM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: BeckiT]
Happy Birthday Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
One thing some gliders will do with a UTI is this: since it hurts/burns to go, they hold it in (which also causes pain in the bladder as it overfills, and may make it impossible for them to go voluntarily until helped, such as with anesthesia for an Xray), or may go only a few drops at a time. Likely the reason for the overfull bladder. Once it's emptied, which happened at the vet, even though the infection is still there, he probably feels a bit better without all the pressure. thumb Antibiotics should take care of the rest.

I'm glad to hear you had a vet willing to cooperate. Some get really prickly when it comes to pain meds and small animals.

If you do need to use the pain meds-make sure to offer lots of liquids with it, as they can constipate. The other thing they can do (and so can some antibiotics) is kill the appetite...so if his eating goes down by much, offer some extra treats (mealies, dried fruit, yogies) whatever he likes best to keep him eating. It won't hurt him if it's only for the duration of the meds to get some extra treats (as we know, in a glider's world, treats = mom, or dad, loves me!, lol)

Keep us updated on the little guy! smile

Oh, and gatorade is okay-do mix it with water as Becki suggested, as it tends to be strong. The sugars and salt (as in pedialyte) help balance the electrolytes in his system, and help him to retain water and avoid becoming dehydrated.


Edited by Xfilefan (03/21/07 12:43 AM)
Edit Reason: add'l info
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#239726 - 03/21/07 08:41 AM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Xfilefan]
Nejwig Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 210
Loc: New York
Okay - update:

I just woke Suge up to give him round two of his antibiotics. He's funny - I gave him a Yogie and when he started chewing on it I stuck the syringe in his mouth and gave him the medication. He made this weird cringe face for a second and then went back to happily munching on his Yogie. It was like "that was gross, but not gross enough to make me stop eating this thing."

I checked the dishes this morning and all the fruit had been eaten (cantelope and honey dew melon) but the veggies were only abot half eaten, and the BML looks like it was barely touched. I just gave him a few yogies (I need to go to Petco today to buy more mealies) and I think I'll try giving him some more juice in a minute.

After I gave him his meds he jumped on my shoulder and peed all over me, and the pee looked normal. You know something is wrong with you when you get excited that your pet urinated all over you. smile

I did, however, notice that he has a small bald spot behind his right ear that is new. Could this be over grooming from stress? I'm having problems with my internet right now so I cannot attach the picture that I took. I will try again in a little bit.

I just gave Suge some more juice and he was very eager to take it. He seems to be doing well aside from that new bald spot.


Attachments
6956-IMG_1764.JPG


_________________________
Jen

:wt: Kirby & :wfb: DeeDee



:rbridge: my beloved Suge (05/2005 - 12/25/2016) and Ollie (05/2005 - 08/01/2017)

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#239733 - 03/21/07 08:51 AM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Nejwig]
Nejwig Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 210
Loc: New York
Okay here's my [censored] photo. The spot is behind his right ear. It kind of just looks like ruffled fur in this photo, but it gives you the general idea of where it is. I'll try getting another picture a little later when he's a little less squirmy.


Attachments
6957-IMG_1764.JPG


_________________________
Jen

:wt: Kirby & :wfb: DeeDee



:rbridge: my beloved Suge (05/2005 - 12/25/2016) and Ollie (05/2005 - 08/01/2017)

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#239735 - 03/21/07 08:52 AM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Nejwig]
Nejwig Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 210
Loc: New York
Okay this doesn't seem to be working for some reason. I'll try again later, maybe when I get a better photo.
_________________________
Jen

:wt: Kirby & :wfb: DeeDee



:rbridge: my beloved Suge (05/2005 - 12/25/2016) and Ollie (05/2005 - 08/01/2017)

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#239756 - 03/21/07 09:07 AM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Nejwig]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just read your post. Please watch him closely. That is how MOE started out and if you look at the pics of the week, MOE is still in his e-collar. He did bite part of his penis off. All test were normal and we used all the meds you are using as well. PLEASE KEEP THAT E COLLAR ON HAND JUST IN CASE, I cannot stress that enough!!!
Good luck.

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#239865 - 03/21/07 11:15 AM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: ]
Nejwig Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 210
Loc: New York
Thanks.

I have the e-collar and pain meds on hand. I actually just got a call from my vet with the results of the test. She said that there was bacteria as well as crystals in his urine and to keep getting fluids in him and giving him the medicine.

She said there may be too much calcium in his diet which may have caused this...? I am feeding him a BML diet. Do you think there's anything I should change with what I'm doing? They been on BML from day one and there's never been a problem - same rotation of fruits (cantelope, melon, cherries, blueberries, grapes, apple) and veggies (carrot, peas, green beans). I'm about half-way through my batch right now. Should I make a new batch just in case?

I'm going to go feed him some more juice now, then run out and get pedialyte and mealies. Any insight into this would be great. And thank you you all again for all your help!
_________________________
Jen

:wt: Kirby & :wfb: DeeDee



:rbridge: my beloved Suge (05/2005 - 12/25/2016) and Ollie (05/2005 - 08/01/2017)

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#239901 - 03/21/07 12:18 PM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Nejwig]
Nejwig Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 210
Loc: New York
Okay. I uploaded the photos to photobucket because I can't figure this out. Here are pictures of Suge's bald spot. Hopefully you can make it out okay.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a161/nejwig/IMG_1765.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a161/nejwig/IMG_1764.jpg
_________________________
Jen

:wt: Kirby & :wfb: DeeDee



:rbridge: my beloved Suge (05/2005 - 12/25/2016) and Ollie (05/2005 - 08/01/2017)

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#239914 - 03/21/07 12:33 PM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Nejwig]
Xglider Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 11157
Loc: Tampa, FL
Gosh i have read this thread three times... the new wounds behind the neck look like mating wounds... i am confused... Suge is a boy right? is hi in with any other gliders?
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* ~ * John * ~ * Sorry store is closed at this time.. <br>
Link -> ~~ XtremeGlider ~~ Home of the original Re~set Toys! ~~ <br>
Oct 2012 update.. miss my gliders and my
glider family and think of my friends often!!!

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#240061 - 03/21/07 02:43 PM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Xglider]
Nejwig Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 210
Loc: New York
Suge is a boy and is housed with his brother - both of them are neutered.
_________________________
Jen

:wt: Kirby & :wfb: DeeDee



:rbridge: my beloved Suge (05/2005 - 12/25/2016) and Ollie (05/2005 - 08/01/2017)

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#240081 - 03/21/07 03:01 PM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Nejwig]
Xglider Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 11157
Loc: Tampa, FL
It does look very much like a Mating wound .. I have dealt with them several time with my Sage… Have you had him in the E-collar, could it have been rubbing there?
_________________________
* ~ * John * ~ * Sorry store is closed at this time.. <br>
Link -> ~~ XtremeGlider ~~ Home of the original Re~set Toys! ~~ <br>
Oct 2012 update.. miss my gliders and my
glider family and think of my friends often!!!

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#240460 - 03/21/07 08:48 PM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Xglider]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
Please keep a VERY close eye on that wound. That is where my Tira's wound appears to have begun, and within 24hrs it became life threatening.

Karin
_________________________
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#240477 - 03/21/07 09:08 PM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Xglider]
Nejwig Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 210
Loc: New York
No, I haven't had any need to put him in the e-collar just yet.

The vets injected him with fluids yesterday - could that be the site where they injected him and it irritated him?

The bald spots seems to be the same size it was this morning, and hasn't gotten any worse. I've been on crazy mom watch and checking him out every few moments so I will let you all know as soon as I notice anything.


Edited by Nejwig (03/21/07 09:15 PM)
_________________________
Jen

:wt: Kirby & :wfb: DeeDee



:rbridge: my beloved Suge (05/2005 - 12/25/2016) and Ollie (05/2005 - 08/01/2017)

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#240698 - 03/22/07 06:53 AM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Nejwig]
Nejwig Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 210
Loc: New York
Morning update before I head off to work.

It doesn't look like much of the food got eaten last night. It looks to be about half gone (assuming that half was eaten by Ollie as I saw him eating before going to bed). I left a dish in the cage filled with a bit of yogurt juice and that is gone, so I'm hoping Suge at least had some of that. He was drinking some of it last night.

I gave him his meds as well as some juice washed down by a bunch of mealies which he happily consumed. The wound on his back looks like it hasn't changed.
_________________________
Jen

:wt: Kirby & :wfb: DeeDee



:rbridge: my beloved Suge (05/2005 - 12/25/2016) and Ollie (05/2005 - 08/01/2017)

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#240716 - 03/22/07 07:52 AM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Nejwig]
mattysmom Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1234
Loc: Tarpon Springs, FL
An old-fashioned cure for UTI is cranberry juice. I believe it works at least some of the time having seen the results with people. It wouldn't replace a vet visit but do you think it might help rather than harm?
_________________________
Moira & Matty & my zoo

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#241110 - 03/22/07 04:04 PM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: mattysmom]
Happy Birthday Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I does resemble a mating wound, and yes, males can do that to one another if there's no female, particularly if unneutered.

Stress from an infection can also cause them to overgroom, though usually that starts on the head.

I'm curious about something though (it could relate, but I can't tell from that angle) . Is there any chance you can get a better pic of his ears? I want to see the left one in particular.


Edited by Xfilefan (03/22/07 04:05 PM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#241128 - 03/22/07 04:37 PM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Xfilefan]
Nejwig Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 210
Loc: New York
When he was a baby and still with the breeder one of the parents bit off the tip of his left ear. That's why it looks a little wonky.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v194/missantisocial/?action=view&current=sugeblueberry3.jpg
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v194/missantisocial/?action=view&current=sugeinpouch1.jpg

There are a couple head on shots I have online. I'm at work so I don't have any better ones.


Edited by Nejwig (03/22/07 04:40 PM)
_________________________
Jen

:wt: Kirby & :wfb: DeeDee



:rbridge: my beloved Suge (05/2005 - 12/25/2016) and Ollie (05/2005 - 08/01/2017)

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#241132 - 03/22/07 04:43 PM Re: Furious behind cleaning [Re: Nejwig]
Happy Birthday Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Thanks...just wanted to be sure you weren't dealing with mites. They will take the ears off and can cause hair loss. The other two likely things are a 'mating' wound from his cagemate, or overgrooming. If overgrooming, treating the infection should stop it. If the cagemate, keep an eye on them and if you see more, they might need separated.

The only way I can see the shot causing it is if it irritated or went in wrong, and he then overgroomed that spot. If so, the antibiotics he's taking should take care of it, and the hair should regrow. If not, or it gets worse, you may want to have the vet take a look just in case a different bug might be at work the meds he's on doesn't cover. As long as it doesn't get any worse, just keep an eye on it, and his cagemate.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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