Sugar Glider Community Calendar

Please click here to see larger view
Articles
More coming soon!!
Today's Birthdays
Xfilefan
Featured Member
Registered: 02/16/14
Posts: 188
Last 10 Posts
A Weird Dream
by Hutch
Three weeks in, first timer, questions .
by KarenE
11:37 AM
Hi! I need some help
by KarenE
11:34 AM
2018 Sugar Glider Calendar and Cafe Press Store
by theresaw
12/15/17 07:04 PM
Self Mutilating
by Ladymagyver
12/15/17 05:53 PM
BML Help
by Ladymagyver
12/15/17 10:21 AM
Injured Tail W/No Vet Instru/Help!
by Terry
12/14/17 09:31 PM
Another Prolapsed cloaca
by Terry
12/14/17 09:03 PM
Grieving sugar glider
by Firefly
12/14/17 08:36 PM
Recipe for glider yogi's please!
by Ladymagyver
12/14/17 01:58 PM
Google+

Facebook
Join Us On Facebook
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#239 - 01/18/03 08:38 PM Diet Causing Health Issues
Anonymous
Unregistered


I could be wrong - but I see a lot of gliders getting sick and then dying in relatively short amounts of time. Doesn't this seem odd to you? I will say that I know of gliders who are extremely healthy that can have something like serious toxicity and die - but it takes nearly a week. I realize necropsy tells the reason of death - but shouldn't we question such short demises?

Top
#240 - 01/18/03 09:00 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi, Thomas -- I think it's a stretch to attribute diet to quick deaths. As you said, without knowing the cause of death, it's hard to say what causes the problems. diet's certainly a big concern, but IMO, only one of several, including stress (takes a toll on the immune system, increases stress on certain organs), habitat, husbandry, and heridity.

Many animals hide their health symptoms out of necessity. They don't show their illnesses well. Often a glider will have been sick for some time without showing a single symptom. I had a glider that had a parasitic condition last year for nearly 4 months before I knew it, and once it was clear that she was sick, she almost died within days.

Also, it seems that with little animals like gliders, there's simply not a long window of opportunity -- that when illnesses are contracted, they do progress quickly. Even gliders diagnoses with cancerous conditions tend to die pretty quickly.

So I'm not sure that this is so much a diet issue as a health issue. It's another reason to have wellness visits to a vet, just to make sure everything's alright -- on a regular basis.

I think this is probably better served in the Health & Hygiene section, so I'll move it there. Good topic for discussion, and perhaps it would make a good poll topic.

Thanks for bringing up the topic and reminding people to take care of their gliders even when they seem absolutely fine.

<small>[ 01-18-2003, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: Lucy ]</small>

Top
#241 - 01/18/03 09:11 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well I'm not trying to turn this into a diet debate of sorts, but:

We have gliders that aren't dying so quickly. We had one survive serious toxicity for nearly a week. Our gliders are not only lasting longer, but making it through illnesses moreso than the BML gliders. I have data to prove it, if you would like me to post it. But don't you think this could be a sign that there are better diets than BML?

Top
#242 - 01/18/03 09:20 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Lucy please don't forget those wonderful vets, that don't give the proper tests in time. As for those gliders lately that have been dying quickly, yes, but most of them has been in Texas, and almost all of them were admisitered Calcium and sent home based on only a blood test. a week later many of these gliders had the infection into their system too long to be able to fight back. Some were actually showing no signs of illness at all.

<small>[ 01-18-2003, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: Bourbon ]</small>
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

Top
#243 - 01/18/03 09:35 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
BeetleJuice Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 2724
Loc: Summerville, SC
Thomas,

There are several diets to choose from, if you feel that there is a problem with the BML. The notion that one is better then the other is highly debatable, and really serves no purpose. There is not enough evidence or research to support any diet is better or worse then another. The best we can do is work off of the available research that we do have, and the diets that meet those needs. Naturally as new information is discovered, changes are made to reflect that. The key is to find a healthy diet and stick with it.

Please do post whatever evidence you have. It is the best way to have an open discussion. If you really feel like the diet that you are using is a healthful alternative, please open a post in diet listing the exact ingredients along with any other pertinent information. The BML diet plan has nothing to do with your diet (unless you have incorporated into your diet since your last post?), so let the diet you support stand on its own merit and be discussed as such. Concerns about the BML diet can be addressed in a separate thread. Thanks.
_________________________
Craig

Top
#244 - 01/18/03 09:42 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
I REALLY don't want to be combative here.

But if you don't think the BML or Brisky's or any other diet is for you then don't use it.

In all the years I have fed BML not one of the Gliders I have lost has been contributed to BML or diet. Except to crickets.

So IF you don't like the diet then dont' use it. There are many others out there.

Bourbon is right. I get call all the time about the vets and how they wont see Gliders and don't even know the correct dosage for durgs. Then go see a vet that does.

I inviete anyone to post what they belive is a good and proper diet for Gliders. Then I will run it by my vet. Nutritionalist. Not a problem.
_________________________
Love and kindness is a gift. Use it freely....
My Gallery

Top
#245 - 01/18/03 09:50 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would like to see this return to your original question, Thomas, about short illnesses and deaths and what might be the causes. My hope is that we can discuss the many factors that face gliders, not just diet. If this is just a diet thread, then I misunderstood your intent, and if you let me know that, I will transfer this back to diet and nutrition.

Top
#246 - 01/18/03 09:59 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: Anonymous]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
Sorry everyone. I did get off Topic.

We DO have a problem with Glider deaths righ now. I have started talking to numerous vet's that are up to date on Toxicology and other problems. Hopefully they can come up with something.

There are alot of things going on right now not ONLY in Texas, but certainly in Texas. So the vet;s and Toxicoligist that I am speaking with are looking at this.

Sorry guys and gals, I should have known better than get off topic. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
_________________________
Love and kindness is a gift. Use it freely....
My Gallery

Top
#247 - 01/18/03 10:33 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, i feel if you believe so much in your diet being "better" than any other, then you should post it here, and let the many people that are awaiting your dietplan make up their own mind.

I don't think it would be fair for you to withhold a better diet, that could benefit many others.

On another note, if you feel your plan is best, then stick with it, and just show what you've got, so we all may benefit from it, instead of concentrating on a diet that is inferior to yours.

Tanja

Top
#248 - 01/18/03 10:39 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


i would like to add that My girl is ill but not from her diet which is the BML diet plan ... hers has to do with her mouth .. nothing else..

Top
#249 - 01/18/03 10:41 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
KarenE Offline
Owner

Registered: 03/25/00
Posts: 41396
Loc: LittleRock, AR USA
Thomas,
If you already have the data to support your findings at the time of your original post, wouldn't it be logical to post them at that time in order to expedite the conversation <img border="0" alt="dunno" title="" src="graemlins/nixweiss.gif" />

It's really hard to discuss something intelligently when only one person seems to have the information needed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ 01-18-2003, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: KarenE ]</small>
_________________________
Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
Sugar Glider Help



Top
#250 - 01/18/03 10:50 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'd like to redirect everybody to the topic again. This thread shouldn't just be about diets, since many things can cause gliders to become ill. Let's please concentrate on the bigger picture and see if we can hammer out some other possible variables affecting gliders and their health in addition to diet.

Top
#251 - 01/18/03 10:56 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: Anonymous]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Concerning the deaths in Texas....one of the gliders that we picked up in Texas...that was just being treated with Pedylite...had Geridia. This glider came from a mega breeder.

When the babies are pulled...they are then "dewormed" with something a day or so befor being taken out to shows. Now, I have no idea what the "dewormer" is. Also, if being treated for certain parasites...if not treated for X amount of days...it will not be totally effective. I would think the med just cuts back on the total numbers of the infection. Then when babies are sold....stress levels are high and with some of the babies immune systems being weaker than others....they will subcome to the illness much quicker than others.

Anyway...just food for thought on the Texas outbreak.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

Top
#252 - 01/19/03 12:40 AM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have personally seen gliders on BML and gliders on Priscilla's diet. (I decided to visit her for the first time, after reading the thread about Ryan's gliders as well as the BML thread.)

First, may I clarify here, she refers to the diet plan not as "Priscilla's diet" but the "Common Sense diet". I am now completely convinced that the relatively short time of death from onset of symptoms has a great deal to do with diet.

Have you seen pictures of wild sugar gliders? They are quite large. [To see them on Quicktime video, please see Sugar Glider Rehab in Tasmania ]

Granted, wild sugar gliders are naturally going to be larger, as they need to be to stay alive. However, with that taken into consideration, even the healthiest gliders on BML seem a bit frail in comparison with the second-generation gliders on the Common Sense diet.

If a glider is frail or small, it is going to be less able to fight off illness, stress, or anything else. When you hold one of Priscilla's gliders, there is a sturdiness and hardiness that is not found in BML gliders. That was enough to convince me to make a change.

In gliders, diet is the key to health. Yes, you can keep a glider alive and relatively healthy on BML, but does it not raise a question when a bout of diarrhea leads to death in a matter of 24-48 hours? It seems that something may be missing. Perhaps it is the use of reptile supplements for a mammal. Perhaps it is something else lacking in the diet that leads to a higher susceptibility to illness.

And as far as the parasitic condition,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I had a glider that had a parasitic condition last year for nearly 4 months before I knew it, and once it was clear that she was sick, she almost died within days.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">if it were giardiasis,

"The parasite is protected by an outer shell that allows it to survive in the environment for long periods of time. In sugar gliders, it can remain dormant for up to six months, and only manifest systems when the glider becomes stressed."

Lucy's gliders could have had the giardia parasites for four months and not realize it because they are shelled and can remain dormant for long periods of time, but once they became active, the gliders nearly died in a matter of days. This IS alarming.

If anyone would like a copy of Priscilla's diet, please contact Priscilla at The Pet Glider.

Since it has been said on this board before that the BML was designed by a research team, I would love to see the research. It might help to have it published. It would probably put a lot of questions to rest on the BML.

I really do believe that the problem may be in using reptile vitamins. I will be working on that theory to find research to back it up.

<small>[ 01-19-2003, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Glider Society ]</small>

Top
#253 - 01/19/03 12:54 AM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would love to see Priscilla's "Common Sense" diet. Can you post it?

<small>[ 01-19-2003, 01:57 AM: Message edited by: robin ]</small>

Top
#254 - 01/19/03 01:11 AM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sugar gliders (Petaurus breviceps) are marsupials. They are also mammals. (See Australian Mammals)

If anyone is interested in the diet, they can contact Priscilla at the Pet Glider

<small>[ 01-19-2003, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: Glider Society ]</small>

Top
#255 - 01/19/03 01:38 AM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, clearly, I was wrong, and the intent of this thread was to talk about diet, not the myriad of reasons that a glider could become ill and die quickly. So, I will move this back to diet & Nutrition.

I would again point out that many of these questions can be put to Dr. Ellen Dierenfeld at our February 23 chat, with Dr. Cathy Johnson-Delaney later in the spring, and as the year goes on, I hope, other guests and panelists.

I would also encourage people concerned about their diet to take advantage of the detailed diet analysis offered by Dr. Dierenfeld's team with the Department of Wildlife Nutrition at the Wildlife Conservation Society. We should be ready to announce the details for this tomorrow.

<small>[ 01-19-2003, 02:54 AM: Message edited by: Lucy ]</small>

Top
#256 - 01/19/03 02:24 AM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lucy, I am thrilled about the nutritional analysis, and am hoping that Dr. Dierenfield and Dr. Cathy Johnson-Delaney have information showing us the daily nutritional requirements of sugar gliders! <img border="0" alt="thumb" title="" src="graemlins/thumb.gif" />

Will they be sharing this with us? I can't wait! <img border="0" alt="jump" title="" src="graemlins/multi.gif" />

Top
#257 - 01/19/03 02:47 AM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Critter Creations Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 3398
Loc: Rock Falls, IL, USA
Can you tell us the average weight of one of priscilla's gliders? I am really curious since you brought it up. I have some very large gliders and I have some smaller gliders, but they are all on BML. I know that most people say their joeys are 10g when they come oop, but mine are almost always between 15-25g when they come oop. This started happening when the herptivite was added to the BML. I noticed a big change in my joeys sizes. What is the average weight of priscilla's joeys when they come oop? Just want to compare the differences. My largest glider is 170g and my smallest glider is 63g. This is a wide range of sizes all on the BML. I don't think the problems that are happening now are due to the BML as most of them haven't been on BML long enough to get any effect from the diet. Most of the gliders (to my knowledge) that have been having a problem were on other diets at the breeders place and then switched to the BML or another diet when moved to the owners home and on that for a short time before something took place. Could the stress of the move be bringing something out such as giardias? If so this could be coming from the breeders homes and Lord knows there are a lot of megabreeders in TX. I don't pretend to know what is going on with these gliders, because I have no clue, but it is something that needs to be diagnosed properly and then treated properly and as of yet that hasn't happened. I pray for all the little ones out there that need this help. I would love it if you could answer the questions I asked as I am very interested in the weight differences on the diets.
_________________________
Danielle
owned by 4 dogs and 2 gliders really soon
Formerly known as K & D Exotics


Top
#258 - 01/19/03 07:09 AM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
For starts these gliders are being diagnosed with bacterial infections , those that are being diagnosed. That is for starts. The giardia is a protozon parasite that is in shelled form, and not the giardia itself isn't agravated by the stress, as Judie had pointed out, the stress lowers the immune system, the immune systems on some of the gliders from the mega breeders are already compromised as they are taken away from their parents many times too early. Thus not getting the parents anti-bodies. These is a very well known issue, in fact it is in print in Caroline MacPersons book.

Now as for where giardia comes from that in itself isn't hard to find, it can be found in water as well as fruits and veggies, it can even be contracted from humans and other animals. But since that wasn't found while you researched maybe you also seen where they are in a mullusk form, and they can actually hide inside the intestional tract by attaching themselves onto the walls of the intestines, and in shelled for may not produce any in the stools upon a fecal exam, that is why we warn people to get their gliders fecals done every 3 months. Now as for the symptoms, of giardia, the shakes/tremors and seizures are not symptoms of giardia, but can be from many different things.

As stated above you have vets who do not properly diagnose gliders whether it is with the proper tests, or because they only find one or 2 giardia protozons, as they feel this is still a safe level, but fact is with a glider it is not a safe level, because that means they can multiply, or there are more inside. Then you have as ellen stated those that don't do gliders, no matter how sick they are, those that are not glider knowledgeable.

As for the gliders in the wild being "bigger" vs those in captivity, that is apples and oranges, there are gliders out there on the BML of many sizes. you make it sound as if our gliders must be obese to be considered healthy. As the gliders in the wild have lots of fat on them for obvious reasons, they live outside, the temps drop at night.

For endorsing and pushing a diet whose figures are incomplete doesn't allow those using it to make educated decisions. roprietary viatamins still have figures, how can anyone make the decision or even have someone find out if those viatmins are even near what a glider needs.

As I have been challanged many times to produce the figures on the BML, which has been done, and publically posted as well as was tested by Dr Dierenfeld and several others. I challange you to also produce the COMPLETE figures on the Common Sense diet Plan. Which should include the entire diet, all the way down to what pro-biotics are being used and the complete figures for the vitamins. The BML has been out there a long time, and there have been many people out to prove it is unhealthy, but to make a public statement as to the type of vitamins that is used in spite of the whole plan is just down right uncalled for unless you can prove the amounts being used is unsafe with the BML diet plan.It then is no more than eneduacted statements.

The history of the gliders that Priscella has is varied as to their upbringing, weaning, diets, housing, cage size, etc.

I guess when one really doesn't want to do their own research, then they will come on and ask for someone elses. Do the same thing I did. Stand up for your own diet, but do it on merit, make the diet speak for itself, allow others to make educated decisions based on facts.

One thing is for sure, and that is that I haven't said anything against Priscella's diet because there isn't any figures for that diet for me to make an educated decision as to whether it is healthy or not based on my research. I personally have lots of questions, regarding why the use of pro-biotics, and the figures for the viatmins, how much vit A is being used in the diet, what that research was based on to say it is healthy etc.. I challange you to answer these questions and allow the people here at GC to make an educated decision. I wouldn't put anything into my glider that couldn't be checked out fully to be sure it is healthy. That is playing russian roulette but on a few peoples words. not what is healthy. I for one don't think the people here at GC are stupid or ignorant, and 1 thing we do is work hard on keeping them educated. So the thread was started with the research data would be posted, then post it. Educate us, don't smoke screen us, give us the HARD facts regarding the "Common Sense diet". I want to make an educated decision. People have asked for these figures and have not recieved them, They too want to make an educated decision.

<small>[ 01-19-2003, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: Bourbon ]</small>
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

Top
#259 - 01/19/03 07:30 AM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have to agree with Bourbon here. I have been watching the threads involving gliders that have died recently and the majority of those gliders seem to be out of Texas. Could it be diet-related? Perhaps but if it is, my suspicion is that there is a common diet ingredient that may be contaminated in some way in Texas (i.e. eggs, chicken, fruits, etc.) which has not yet come to light. Perhaps those who have lost a glider in Texas might compare notes on items used in their gliders' diets as well as how those items were prepared (for example: were the fruits/veggies given fresh or frozen? Was the chicken bought fresh and boiled/broiled? What vitamin/mineral supplements and/or other supplements were used regularly and in what amounts/ratios were they used?). Such questioning might help pinpoint a specific common item in all these gliders' diets that could be responsible for recent glider deaths in Texas if my suspicions are correct.

Additionally, it also seems to be true that most of the gliders that have gotten sick in Texas were not tested for anything but possible calcium deficiency/dehydration by vets when the gliders were first seen. If CBC, general profile, urinalysis, fecal float/smear, toxicology and/or bacterial culture testing had been considered on the first visit rather than waiting a week or so when no improvement was noted in the affected glider, perhaps a positive result would have been seen in some specific area allowing for appropriate treatment to be started earlier. This, in turn, might have afforded the affected glider a better chance of survival. I know from personal experience when I had a sick glider that many vets have limited knowledge of gliders and seem to zero in on calcium deficiency as a primary diagnosis because they are unaware of the fact that general illness can deplete protein and/or calcium levels rapidly in gliders, and that certain types of diseases (such as giardia, trichomonis) can intestinally siphon off the nutrients and/or minerals such as calcium leading to a secondary calcium deficiency. Thus it becomes even more important for vets to become as knowledgeable about how a glider's system works during times of illness and what types of testing should be considered on the first visit in order to obtain an accurate diagnosis and plan of treatment as early as possible to give a glider the best chance of survival. I would, therefore, recommend that all glider owners make their vets aware of the Vet Mailing List as a resource by which they can obtain data from other glider-knowledgeable vets which may help them in diagnosing/treating your glider more rapidly if your vet is unsure as to how to proceed.

Top
#260 - 01/19/03 10:17 AM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
Glider Society: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ellen's gliders could have had the giardia parasites for four months and not realize it because they are shelled and can remain dormant for long periods of time, but once they became active, the gliders nearly died in a matter of days. This IS alarm

This is NOT TRUE. NONE OF MY GLIDERS DIED FROM GIARDIA. NOT ONE OF THEM. Thier deaths were caused from AFLATOXINS that was confirmed each time by necropsy.

The whole grueling experience can be found on Best of the Board.

As a Administrator I am trying to be "kind" about this. But as a member I ask that when refering to MY gliders (or anyone elses) then get your fact straight.

There is a HUGE difference between the two deaths.' Speculation without knowing the facts does NOT replace Scientific Necropsy data.

Footnote: Thank you for notifying me that you edieted your post and put the proper name in it.

<small>[ 01-19-2003, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: Ellen ]</small>
_________________________
Love and kindness is a gift. Use it freely....
My Gallery

Top
#261 - 01/19/03 10:57 AM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Manny sudden deaths can be avoided by using a little common sense and horribly enough, by the experience of others.. The first time I read about AFLATOXINS, I stopped feeding peanuts and then later crickets. Also, I read a horrible story about the e-coli in Publix veggies and now I feed only frozen and baby food fruits and veggies. Another good example is that I used to leave the BML in the dishes until I got back from work, now I take it out in the morning and my wheat germ and baby cereal are now kept in the fridge. I really don't have much medical background but just the fact that I' eliminating as many possible bacterial growing scenarios makes me think that I'm decreasing the chances of my gliders getting sick. Sadly enough some people discovered these things to late, and it is through them posting on the board that others can save their own gliders! I am very greatful for everyone that shares their bad experiences with the boards so that we can prevent the same from happening to our gliders.

I do believe that weight is an issue with gliders on BML and have had to supplement mine but this is another topic!

Top
#262 - 01/19/03 01:55 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


First off, the gliders I'm speaking of that did so well under the conditions - were ravaged by toxicity from a water supply.

I think I'll start a new thread to please the mods, as I wish to clarify my original posting. I'll link from here as soon as I get it posted.

Top
#263 - 01/19/03 02:32 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well I was wrong in assuming the mods would want a new thread - so here:

Well I had to come right out and say it - I don't believe that BML gliders are as healthy as other-diet-gliders. Why is this? Well I mentioned faintly that BML gliders don't seem to survive illness as well. But when I got to thinking about it, BML gliders seem to be smaller. I know you guys are going to go nuts with "show proof" - and I'll ask friends for their glider sizes (I assume length w/out tail and weight is what you want?). I've noticed a lot of differences in our gliders vs. the BML ones. Ours are fun to play with in the daytime, they're not all lethargic. Ours don't sleep some obsene amount of time everyday. We sat down and talked about this some - we're noticing a lot of differences. Thoughts?

And to answer the previous thread's question - Priscilla has used this diet on a consistent 500 gliders for 4 years with ZERO deaths.

Top
#264 - 01/19/03 02:36 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Okay you guys got me scared now ... I didn't realize there was some kind of break out in Texas.. (didn't put 2 and 2 together with all the deaths).

Are any of these gliders a year old and older? Or are they younger ones than that??
I mean what age group are we talking about here???

Sorry .. I'm kinda getting in a panic ..
breathing deeply now...

jojo

Top
#265 - 01/19/03 02:52 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well if you feel that way you're only restating what you originally started this thread out with.

What i'd like to see is some sort of journal or log for your gliders, and if you have been researching this that's what you should have in order to base such a comparsion on and to be able to make this kind of statement. If you have weights of gliders that would help, as we do allready have a person that has data on gliders weights on BML, so we can compare that.Also you stated you have made comparsions, with whose gliders ? We cannot discern anything if you have no facts to lay down for us all to pour over and read.

As far as behavioural differences go that you believe your gliders are doing better/different on cause of your diet plan, then you need to come forward with more than just three ill defined facts, in oder for us all equally to be able to make a comparsion.
You can't expect us to take your word for it without showing data, facts, proof.

I feel this whole topic is turning into a riot, and it's a senseless waste of time and energy, since we can't come to a conclusion, for lack of facts on your part. We might as well be discussing wind and all about it, just to sit and gossip.

So i on my part will no longer post, or follow your threads since thus far no evidence, data, proof, facts have been thrown into the equation to make up for an intelligent discussion.

Tanja

Top
#266 - 01/19/03 02:58 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Size of gliders is determined by two things (primarily). These are diet and LOCATION OF ORIGIN. diet would only affect size if there was extreme malnutrition. BML would not cause gliders to be smaller. Smaller gliders eat things like cherrios and popcorn, and THAT'S IT. I've seen gliders with extreme malnutrition, and they look like joeys but they are actually adults. THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN WITH GLIDERS ON BML.

Now....
What a lot of you are overlooking is the location of origin in gliders. Gliders from Tasmania, as shown in the link in the post above, are large. This is because the larger gliders are best suited for the cooler climate. Gliders from Australia are smaller, and ones from further north around Indonesia are even smaller yet. This follows the same pattern with most animals.

SO!
Unless you want to do genetic testing to see where in the world your glider originated from, I suggest you all just accept that gliders come in different shapes and sizes. Feed your glider a good, balanced diet, treat it well, and it will grow to the size it's supposed to.

Ok, there are "midget" gliders I suppose, and I'm not sure how to explain them other then they are like midget humans. <img border="0" alt="dunno" title="" src="graemlins/nixweiss.gif" />

Yeah, well sorry if I got off the whole diet causing death thing, but I just think people are overlooking some basic biology here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Top
#267 - 01/19/03 03:11 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you, Mage, for that explanation. It is worthy info and much appreciated! Guess I never thought about the point of origin..... <img border="0" title="" alt="blush" src="blush.gif" />

Top
#268 - 01/19/03 04:38 PM Re: Diet Causing Health Issues [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thomas O- I am no expert on diet or gliders or nothing for that matter. What I do know it how your post makes me feel. I read and read all I can, I want to make sure I keep my gliders safe and happy. It seems to me you just want to cause arguements. You post your statment and want people to jump at it.. and of course they do. They defend what they know. You post no FACTS as they have asked for. All this does for the common glider owner who wants their gliders to stay safe and happy is cause us to PANIC and FEAR about what we are feeding. With all the TONS of posts on diet its hard to keep up. Why start a post like this unless you have the cold hard facts to prove your point. Sorry I found this frustrating and had to post my feelings thanks.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >




Moderator:  Feather, KarenE, Ladymagyver, Philwojo 
Sugar Glider Help Page



Please click above to see how you can help!!

Moon
CURRENT MOON
Who's Online
3 registered (Hutch, Terry, Feather), 18 Guests and 18 Spiders online.
Key: Owner, Admin, Mod
Newest Members
RAWRnivore, Tara24, Sal305, Cherylr1995, SarasotaSugs
6452 Registered Users
Forum Stats
11 posts in the last 24hrs
6453 Members
134 Forums
9002 Topics
148790 Posts

Max Online: 478 @ 07/15/07 01:24 AM
Last 10 New Topics
A Weird Dream
by Ladymagyver
08:23 AM
Hi! I need some help
by RAWRnivore
12/15/17 05:12 PM
BML Help
by Alan
12/14/17 04:59 PM
Grieving sugar glider
by Firefly
12/14/17 01:04 PM
Self Mutilating
by Anonymous
12/14/17 11:26 AM
Injured Tail W/No Vet Instru/Help!
by
12/13/17 03:57 AM
Recipe for glider yogi's please!
by Claralice
12/12/17 10:03 PM
My Caramel Gliders anything I need to know about neutering?
by Claralice
12/12/17 04:14 PM
Three weeks in, first timer, questions .
by Lisa11
12/12/17 04:42 AM
RIP Spencer
by Cora
12/11/17 04:58 PM
(Views)Popular Topics
I just found a lump on Timmy's chest--HELP! 20205125
Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts 12468568
TEXAS 659240
Pitbull biter needs advice/help 608367
OHIO 520353
Member Titles 461321
MISSOURI 395217
HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's 372618
OKLAHOMA 354864
URGENT - Genetic Flaw discovered 353190
Supported Browser
This site was tested and is best viewed in Google Chrome & Mozilla FireFox



Firefox 3

Download your copy today!!!


GliderCENTRAL
©1998-2017