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#243331 - 03/25/07 11:06 AM Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs?
Anonymous
Unregistered


3 Questions:

1. I have read every thread on mealies going back 2 years and still cannot find a definitive answer as to whether Grubco's Mighty Mealies are on growth hormones/steroids. I have only purchased from them once and didn't know what I was doing and got ones that were too small. Don't get me wrong, the gliders are eating them and I even have pupae now that I've transferred and am starting a farm. But I need to order some more before all the ones I have pupate and I have no worms. I've noticed that everybody who feeds the Mighties swears by them and I can see why because they would be so fat and juicy and full of good guts. But are they on drugs? I've emailed Grubco but haven't heard back and I really need to place an order.

2. Also, I was thinking of ordering both the large and the mighty (if they're not on drugs) because their site says the mighties morph quickly. I just don't want these things in my fridge...I don't have any room, especially now with all the dadgum produce since our new family members arrived. Can I put the mighties in the same farm as the smaller ones? And if I do let the mighties morph (hey, isn't that a cartoon)...again, can I farm them in the same containers I am farming the other ones...will the beetles fight, etc.?

3. And lastly, does anybody have ANY solution for how to separate the bedding/frass from the worms? Maybe when I get bigger worms it will get easier, but right now every sifter I've tried, both the bedding AND the worms fall through. I literally have spent hours hand picking the worms out. I swear, I am spending more time on glider care and feeding them better than I do my human children...not that I would feed my kids worms...but you know what I mean. LOL :o)

Thanks in advance!


Edited by FURBYnGIZMO (03/25/07 02:28 PM)

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#243373 - 03/25/07 12:41 PM Re: Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs? [Re: ]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
I have never heard that about Grubco. But I don't feed bugs and really pay no attention to them. So I am no help.

Hope someone comes along that can help. Usually when a post sits it's because no one knows the answer. But someone will come along soon I hope
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#243435 - 03/25/07 01:57 PM Re: Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs? [Re: Ellen]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi there
We have many snakes and lizards here and know many people who have used Grubco with no complaints. I never used them we have another company close enough to pick up but I know people with some pretty expensive breeding set ups that I am sure would never use them if there was any concern about the quality. Like I said I have only heard good things but I will do some checking and post back if I can find anything out.

Janice

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#243460 - 03/25/07 02:13 PM Re: Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think that grubco lists the entire diet or nutritional contect of the mealies on their site... maybe you can contact the owner, they really are a great site and i woldnt imagine that they would be any less than helpful in this situation..

I bought the mighty mealies just about a week ago, and they arent super super huge that would make me think theyre on some kinda growth horomone, and they look healthy to me.. but again, im not super sure..

I betif you contact them, they will be happy to supply you with the info.. they are really great there

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#243476 - 03/25/07 02:24 PM Re: Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi again

I went back on to a reptile forum that we us alot and scanned through tons of posts and also did a few searches for anything that might be helpful. Except for an order that someone felt that the crickets were to big there was nothing negative. Like I said tons of people there us them.
Yes they do list the nutrtional content there is a link and from what I have heard their customer service is above and beyond so give them a call if you still have any concerns.

Good Luck

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#243481 - 03/25/07 02:27 PM Re: Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs? [Re: ]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
I believe the mighty mealies ARE on growth hormone because if you let them cycle (alien, beetle, eggs, mealies) they grow into normal size mealies.
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#243497 - 03/25/07 02:50 PM Re: Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs? [Re: princessmegi]
Anonymous
Unregistered


On another glider forum I found, someone said that they called Grubco and were told that they do NOT use growth hormones, but DO use some sort of dietary supplement. I remember there was a size, one step bigger than mighty mealies I think, that I saw on grubco before that had a warning that they did use some kind of drug or something to keep them from ever turning into beetles so they'd just turn into giant mealies, but I don't see them on there anymore. But yeah, I'm pretty sure the ones with the warning were bigger than the mighties.


Edited by marycherry (03/25/07 03:02 PM)

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#243501 - 03/25/07 03:01 PM Re: Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just sent them a email asking what they used and if they could provide the name, I will let you know when I hear back from them.

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#243607 - 03/25/07 06:24 PM Re: Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


yea, it is probably the diet that they feed them.. i mean, if you have a cat that is HUGE and it has kittens, you cant expect that cat to have kittens that grow up to be huge.. although size can be a genetic thing, a lot of it has to do with environmental influences.. just look at the evolution for humans, the average size of a human over the past even 100 years has changed hugely, and chances are, its not only genetics..

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#243611 - 03/25/07 06:32 PM Re: Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs? [Re: ]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
That's what I'm saying...They are on some form of growth suppliment resulting in them being large but their thier offspring being normal sized.
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#243787 - 03/25/07 10:28 PM Re: Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs? [Re: princessmegi]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Even if the mighty mealies are on a growth hormone (as most mighty mealies are), it really only acts as a pupating inhibitor, meaning it interrupts the mealies' metamorphosis cycle (i.e. the mealies continue to grow and grow and never actually pupate into beetles), and the growth hormone is known to only affect invertebrates, not vertebrate animals like gliders. I wouldn't be afraid of feeding them.

If you're afraid of hormones, one should really look into some of the fruits and vegetables that are categorized as "organic" and are fed to your gliders. Not only are a great deal of common produce biologically engineered, but also may contain hormones absorbed through other means (e.g. bovine hormones through the soil). The bottom line is, I wouldn't let the word "hormone" scare me in this case if I were you. smile

Hope this helped.

Mikey dance

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#243831 - 03/26/07 12:15 AM Re: Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Growth hormone absolutely does affect vertebrates, humans included. Case in point, BST, which is bovine somatotropin. Somatotropin is the exact same growth hormone humans naturally make. It was found to cause many problems in rats including cancer.

http://www.innvista.com/society/education/students/simpson.htm

Do you have any information on what hormone is given to the mealies that leads you to believe it does not affect vertebrates? If so, I would be interested in seeing it. I do know that insects have a hormone called juvenile hormone that triggers metamorphosis. There is an agonist to this called JA which opposes the affects of the juvenile hormone. I know this method is used as a form of pesticide for many insects in agriculture. However, Grubco states that their mighties actually pupate faster, so they wouldn't be using this hormone because it would do the opposite. Which takes me back to "are they giving them growth hormone". Juvenile insect hormone would not affect vertebrates, but as already stated, growth hormone does. So again, if you have some literature to state otherwise, I would love to see it. Perhaps it's a different hormone specific to insects?

And yes, I am aware that we are eating many biologically altered foods. And I also know that it's affecting us. The studies are clear the human females are starting menstruation dramatically earlier now than they were 10-20 years ago. This is believed to be related to bovine hormones. So if that's the case, why add more in the form of enhanced mealies if we don't have to? At least with the produce, it's more diluted since it's being absorbed from the soil. In the case of the mealies, it would be a direct drip line.

In response to why humans have been getting bigger over time, the reason is natural selection. But that does start with genetics. Those born with a taller stature could hunt better, survived and reproduced better, and therefore passed on those genes that led them to be taller in the first place. This take many generations...thousands to millions of years actually. With the worms, if they were in fact enhanced to grow bigger, then yes, you're right, their offspring would be normal size...all the more reason to assume they're enhanced. Plus the fact that they pupate more quickly indicates some sort of chemical interference.

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#243845 - 03/26/07 12:37 AM Re: Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


To me, those *Mighty Mealies* weren't big at all. I wound up counting the last batch we got, just out of curiosity, since the smallest you can purchase is 500 of them...we actually got 640 and only 3 dead ones this time around. Last time I had over 100 dead ones, but things happen, and they give you extras I'm sure so it all evens out in the end. No big deal. So...next....I'm not sure about hormones or anything funky going on there lol...but I have let our mealies go through their complete cycle and all turns out fine. You can put the new mealies you want to get in with your old ones. I've learned you can even put the superworms in with mealworms. I thought they would eat the mealies, but it actually went the other way around twice, the mealies (and tiny ones too!) were chowin down on a couple superworms. Mealies are about all the same in the long run, so as long as you have mealworms and you're getting more mealworms, regardless of size, you can house them together.
Next... All I do for bedding, and food, for mine when I let them cycle is give them a WalMart cheapo container, no lids cuz they need TONS of air...OR you can get one of those plastic lil cages that you'd use for a frog or a fish, they with the lids with all the slotted holes in it, and the handle, and a larger hole to reach in or whatever...and use it as a breeding farm for them. Then on one side of the *cage*, container, whatever you use, pour some baby oatmeal in there, and on the other side, if you give them a paper towel folded in fourths, then lay a couple apple slices on it, and then it won't get your oatmeal wet and make it a mess right away. Then if you have a spray bottle, starting the next day or a couple days later, spray the paper towel and apple pieces just so things are a bit damp, keeping the water off your oatmeal as much as possible...that way they get their water and your apple slices will last longer cuz they won't dry out as fast. Believe me, it's easy easy to raise these lil guys, and my suggies absolutely LOVE the *aliens* (pupae), it's like Christmas for them when they get one, especially Ozzy LOL. So I keep a container on the counter with my worms in it, feeding them and fattening them up for about a week (since you have 2 weeks till they turn into the aliens once you get them from grubco), feeding them apple and if you can get *Gut Load* from a pet store to feed them, then you get even bigger worms. Feed your babies however many you normally feed..and go on with life as normal....then after that first week, load up a lil container with a tiny layer of baby oatmeal on the bottom, then stack up the worms so you have a good supply and they don't ALL turn into aliens. Put those in the frige. The worms that are out will eat the baby oatmeal too, I forgot to mention that I think, so its bedding and food. Then leave out on the counter to stay warm however many you want to change into the aliens and eventually beetles. They won't eat so once they hit that stage they just need oatmeal to lay on and that's it. Another 2 weeks down the road they will turn into beetles. They have wings, but won't fly. If you give them a lil piece of folded up newspaper or something like that to hide in, that's where they'll lay their eggs. Another couple weeks after you get beetles is when you should have eggs. It'll take yet another couple weeks to see them worms get big enough to locate. You need to feed the beetles too, same thing as the worms...apples, things with tons of moisture in them, since they want the drink worse than the food. So yeah, once you see worms, your beetles will probably die off...I've fed some to Ozzy too, and he loved those also. I fed him those when they were new, and the shell wasn't hard yet, so I dunno how they do with the older beetles.
And lastly, the best way I've found to separate the worms and what not from the bedding, dump out your newspaper when you first get them in the mail onto a big sheet of flat paper, or a dish drainer, so you can get the papers shook out good enough. Then take them and dump them into a regular food strainer with smaller holes but not so small the bedding and junk that's in with them won't fall through. Filter that over a bowl so it's easily thrown out and not all over the sink. Then make your fresh container with clean bedding and dump them in. That's all there is to it. At least that's how we do it and it works great for us.:)You may lose a few in the bowl that go through the holes, but not too many. Get one with bigger holes on the top portion of the strainer and smaller on the bottom, they work the best. Plastic ones.
Anyway...I went on long enough with this I think. I hope some of this helps. If you have any more questions just send me a message...since I rarely look back on posts once I leave something. And to the rest of you, sorry this is so long lol. Guess I had a lot to say in this area lol. ;)Good luck!

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#245079 - 03/27/07 11:33 AM Re: Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Growth hormone absolutely does affect vertebrates, humans included. Case in point, BST, which is bovine somatotropin. Somatotropin is the exact same growth hormone humans naturally make. It was found to cause many problems in rats including cancer.

http://www.innvista.com/society/education/students/simpson.htm

Do you have any information on what hormone is given to the mealies that leads you to believe it does not affect vertebrates? If so, I would be interested in seeing it. I do know that insects have a hormone called juvenile hormone that triggers metamorphosis. There is an agonist to this called JA which opposes the affects of the juvenile hormone. I know this method is used as a form of pesticide for many insects in agriculture. However, Grubco states that their mighties actually pupate faster, so they wouldn't be using this hormone because it would do the opposite. Which takes me back to "are they giving them growth hormone". Juvenile insect hormone would not affect vertebrates, but as already stated, growth hormone does. So again, if you have some literature to state otherwise, I would love to see it. Perhaps it's a different hormone specific to insects?


I don't remember the name of the hormone (perhaps it was JA), but it wasn't at all a growth hormone (of course growth hormones affect vertebrates); it was a hormone that inhibited pupation and I remember it being a huge issue in the community of herp tarantulas because it was feared by some that the anti-pupation hormone could somehow have an adverse effect on physiological things like molting, for instance. It was eventually established among the community that the hormone did NOT affect vertebrates. Where that was determined, I didn't pay much attention, however I do know that several very reputable arachnologists, tarantula/scorpion enthusiasts, and other highly respected and knowledgable personalities on the forum community were in accordance to the claim. I'm running a search right now to find the name of the forum on which I read that.

As for Grubco, I don't know. Have mighty mealies from grubco pupated sooner than normal *turning to grubco clients for that answer*?

Mikey dance

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#245098 - 03/27/07 12:13 PM Re: Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs? [Re: ]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
I don't see that they pupate any sooner than normal mealies. I have purchased both from Grubco, so that's where I'm getting this observation.
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#245117 - 03/27/07 12:34 PM Re: Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs? [Re: princessmegi]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I asked this was the response I received from the website.

I am sorry, but that is a Grubco trade secret. I can tell you that we do
not use any type of chemical. Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: Macwood6@optonline.net [mailto:Macwood6@optonline.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 3:48 PM
To: info@grubco.com
Subject: Grubco.com Website User Comments



The following message was sent to you through Grubco.com.

Date: 03/25/07

Name: Janice
Email: Macwood6@optonline.net

Comments: During a conversation on a web forum someone questioned what made
mighty mealies so much larger than regular mealies. We are writting to find
out if they are feed something since one member said when she cycled the
larger ones she got small ones. And if they are fed something could it
effect animals like sugar gilders which can be sensitive to chemicals.
Thanks



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#245278 - 03/27/07 04:16 PM Re: Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lisa,
Great questions! This thread has lots of informative posts (I.E. Candi's!) for you to read through and decide whether or not to get some mighty mealies of your own. That e-mail makes it sound like they do, in fact, use drugs etc. to make the mealies grow. Of course, I could be wrong...My advice is that if you are that worried about the health of your suggies, don't feed them. You can stick with smaller mealies instead. smile Hope that helps!


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#246179 - 03/28/07 02:59 PM Re: Are Grubco's Mighties on Drugs? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you Suzanne! Glad to help a little! smile

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