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#25468 - 08/21/04 04:52 PM sick glider
Anonymous
Unregistered


I sold 2 joeys to some people across county from me back in June. They have noticed one of the males is not feeling well and took him to a vet. The vet didnt have much advice and sent them home, only to ask them to bring him back in after the weekend. These are his symptoms;
he has diherea... his nose isn't very wet... seems dehydrated... he isn't walking about much... but when he does all his legs and such work. he started breathing a little heavier last night... making a little noise.
I beleive they said the vet felt a small lump on his belly (he is a boy for sure) and was hesitant to think its a tumor given he is under 6 mths oop. Any ideas on what this may be, what they can do to make him more comfortable until the return visit, or what they may be able to pass on to this in-experienced vet on glider wellness and health??? I have done all I can think of on my end and would appreciate any help, thank you.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

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#25469 - 08/21/04 05:07 PM Re: sick glider [Re: lillysmomma]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just got the message that he passed on. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" />

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#25470 - 08/21/04 06:43 PM Re: sick glider [Re: lillysmomma]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
So sorry to hear about this Krystal. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#25471 - 08/21/04 09:07 PM Re: sick glider [Re: lillysmomma]
Anonymous
Unregistered


This was one of my gliders, Noah, who died today. I am really upset, but what is worse is that I have no idea what happened. I don't know what I did wrong, or what I could have done differently. What makes this even harder, is that his brother, Franklin, is still with us. I am very worried even though he has not exhibited any of the same "signs".

I'm at a loss about where to go from here. I have scheduled a necropsy with the vet. But it will be a few days before they can perform it as it is the weekend now.

This has been really hard.

edit: I just thought I'd add a picture of him so I can try to smile when reading this thread.
[]http://www3.telus.net/buglett/n%20in%20h%2002.jpg[/]


Edited by buglett (08/21/04 10:19 PM)

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#25472 - 08/21/04 09:13 PM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
Gosh, I am so so sorry to both of you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />.

The necropsy sounds like the best plan for now, to see if it's anything the other could suffer from. I am so sorry.

Karin
_________________________
Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"

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#25473 - 08/21/04 09:38 PM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
I am so sorry about the loss of your little glider. My guess is....the little one may have developed a stress related illness(bacterial) and was not noticed till he was severely ill. However, the neucropsy should help determine the real cause.

As to the problem...first off, it does not sound like the vet was of much help. My suggestion...is to locate another vet who is more experienced or one who is willing to learn about proper care of a sick glider in a crisis. There is a sticky at the top of this forum....What to Expect from a vet for a Wellness Exam as well as Glider in a Crisis. Please read....and then print out and take with you to the vet....as the remaining glider needs to be checked for wellness to be sure he/she is not ill.

Sending a BIG <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> to both of you.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#25474 - 08/21/04 09:50 PM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
Carrie T Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/01
Posts: 4049
Loc: Doniphan Mo
I'm so sorry, this is just heartbreaking for the both of you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

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#25475 - 08/21/04 09:59 PM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
gliderdad79 Offline
Owner

Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 15514
Loc: Long Island, NY
Im so sorry for your loss <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Eddie

In the Tropics somewhere between the port of indecision and southeast of disorder!

"Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people."

One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure its worth watching!

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#25476 - 08/21/04 10:11 PM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


We brought Noah to http://www.calgarypetvet.com/index.html . The vet had some (though limited) experience with sg's. She performed a float and smear fecal test, which both came back negative. She said she could try an X-ray, but we decided not to because she admitted it was doubtful she'd be able to see much with the glider's small size. She prescribed 2 antibiotics, and an injection to help with if he was dehydrated. We chose to take him home for the weekend instead of leaving him there as they weren't quite familiar with his diet (Darcy's). We would've tried the X-ray after a couple days if he hadn't improved on the medication, but obviously that doesn't matter now.

The X-ray would've been to try and determine what the lump was the vet said she felt above his stomach. Though she also said the lump could have formed as a result of the illness, and not be the cause of it.

Oh, we had brought Franklin along too. She weighed them both, and they were nearly the same weight. I think it was 55 and 53 grams.

We have been unable to locate any more experienced Calgary vets, but if anyone knows of any, that would be great. Though, this vet seemed as experienced as they are going to get.

It seems hard to believe the illness would be stress related. We've had the gliders for about 8 weeks now, and Noah was always comfortable around us. Franklin on the other hand is a bit more fiesty. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know it's a bad subject, but I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with useful results from necropsy's? I just feel doubtful it will help much. And, since this whole thing happened so fast, I'm a bit worried by the time they even perform it, Franklin could already be too sick.


Edited by buglett (08/21/04 10:33 PM)

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#25477 - 08/21/04 10:36 PM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Fecal float/smear was good even though it did not reveal much. Next...a cytology needed to be done to count the bacteria. A stain is used to help determine the type of bacteria present. Often...if a glider is stressed...a normal or oppertuniest type bacteria will suddenly show an abnormal overgrowth.

When nothing abnormal is revealed with these two tests...then a Culture is needed. It can be from blood,urine or from fresh droppings. It can even be from hair that has been plucked.

After that...a med is given. If need be ....any meds given can be adjusted once the C&S is back from the lab if not sesitive to the bacteria.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#25478 - 08/22/04 12:11 AM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


^ Thank you for some of the technical insight.

However, I still haven't heard from anyone who knows of a better vet in Calgary (I've also posted on the CanWest board). http://groups.msn.com/CanWestSugarGlider...485820685419223

Should I just go in asking for all these tests to the vet I have now? She didn't seem ready to perform any of the ones you mention.

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#25479 - 08/22/04 06:02 AM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
I would not be to quick to change vets. sounds like she did what most exotic vets would have done under the circumstances. They will do additional tests if you request them and are willing to pay for them. At least she was honest up front about the xray not revealing very much. We all want so much from the vets when one of our gliders gets sick but truth is there are few things that they can diagnoss. Usually the simple things like bacteria, parasites, dehydration, or calcium deficency. And of course any external injuries or dental problems. When it comes to problems with the major organs such as heart, liver, lungs, intestinal blockages, etc. the vets are usually at a loss.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#25480 - 08/24/04 06:55 PM Question about danger of being in our hair? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I would not be to quick to change vets. sounds like she did what most exotic vets would have done under the circumstances. They will do additional tests if you request them and are willing to pay for them. At least she was honest up front about the xray not revealing very much. We all want so much from the vets when one of our gliders gets sick but truth is there are few things that they can diagnoss. Usually the simple things like bacteria, parasites, dehydration, or calcium deficency. And of course any external injuries or dental problems. When it comes to problems with the major organs such as heart, liver, lungs, intestinal blockages, etc. the vets are usually at a loss.
Charlie H

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Yes, I realized that. I probably should've used the word "other" instead of "better". Though, we never made money an issue, so I'm pretty sure they did all the tests they were going to do (besides the X-ray). And, after what happened on Monday, I am starting to have a few doubts about the clinic. I won't get into the whole story here, but a few things that happened were a bit questionable/upsetting given the situation.

I had a question. We've been thinking over and over about the days before Noah got sick. Is it possible for them to be poisoned from nibbling on our hair?

They both used to like to "nest" behind our necks and would nibble on our hair occasionally. Neither of us use hair product much (if at all), and we had heard of this behaviour before, so were not concerned with it. We had also had a friend over the weekend before Noah's death, and I think he may have been in her hair for a few minutes as well.

It's probably a silly question, but it was one of the only things that came to mind.

The not knowing what happened has been one of the worst things about this whole situation. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Edited by buglett (08/24/04 06:56 PM)

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#25481 - 08/25/04 04:53 AM Re: Question about danger of being in our hair? [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
I can relate to your feeling about not knowing what caused your gliders death. So often this is the case and it always leaves us at a loss as to what we could have done different or if we need to do something different in the future. Sad thing is that even when a necropsy is done we quiet often do not get the answers we are searching for. For instance Zacks Mom recently lost a little glider. The necropsy showed extensive liver damage among other things but the vet did not have a clue as to what caused the problems. That is not very reassuring. I seriously doubt the glider getting on your neck and under your hair had anything to do with his health problems. Most gliders like to do this and I have never heard of it being a problem for the gliders.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#25482 - 08/25/04 07:10 AM Re: Question about danger of being in our hair? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm sorry for your loss. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> I wish I could be of some help but we have not had any probs with our babies and *crossing my fingers* hopefully won't. It's frustrating situations like this that make me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> course then again anytime a baby crosses the bridge I <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> for the baby for the owner.

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#25483 - 08/25/04 08:27 AM Re: Question about danger of being in our hair? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree. Not knowing the cause is the hardest. A necropsy can give you a cause of death, but frequently it can't tell you why it happened. I still look back at Ozzy's life and wonder what I did that could have caused the liver damage, even though logically I know it is probably nothing I did.
Hopefully, the necropsy will show something specific to set your mind at ease.

I am so sorry for your loss. It is truely amazing how quickly these little ones warm our hearts. May your heartache ease in the coming days.

Lynn

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#25484 - 08/25/04 11:35 AM Re: Question about danger of being in our hair? [Re: ]
Sugar_Mama Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/26/03
Posts: 4321
Loc: Central FL
I'm so sorry for both of your losses. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
~Rischa~
My Sugar Babies
Photos & Videos

Rest peacefully until I see you at the bridge, Sweet Lillian. gangel Mommy, Daddy, and brother Philip miss you terribly.

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#25485 - 08/25/04 12:35 PM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Buglett:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I know it's a bad subject, but I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with useful results from necropsy's? I just feel doubtful it will help much. And, since this whole thing happened so fast, I'm a bit worried by the time they even perform it, Franklin could already be too sick.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

When I found one of my rescue gliders dead, I thought she had fallen & sustained some type of injury which killed her. The necropsy proved otherwise. It showed that Tia died from congestive heart failure either congenital in nature or due to a bacterial/viral infection (which wouldn't surprise me given the conditions she had lived in at a school) prior to her coming to my home. In any case, I at least had closure on the cause of death and the fact that there was nothing I could have done to change the outcome for Tia. In fact, my vet was surprised that Tia had been out running around, playing and eatting just 2 1/2 hours prior to my finding her lifeless body given the severity of the congestive heart failure he observed upon doing the necropsy..

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#25486 - 08/26/04 04:02 PM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


So sorry for your loss! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> Spend lots of time with your little one and cuddle him a lot. I have to go cuddle my precious ones now because of your post. You and Franklin are in my thoughts! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

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#25487 - 08/26/04 11:00 PM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
So sorry for your loss! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> Spend lots of time with your little one and cuddle him a lot. I have to go cuddle my precious ones now because of your post. You and Franklin are in my thoughts! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Thanks for all of your support. Aimee's been taking this really hard. I've been spending tons of time with him. I'm buglett/Aimee's bf. He seems to have become a lot closer to me in the last few days. Today for the first time ever, when I was putting him back into his cage for a nap until he wakes for the night to eat, he turned around and climbed out of his cage and into my hand to sleep instead of into one of his pouches. He hasn't been showing any of the signs Noah did. One thing I'm a little worried about is he hasn't eaten any worms for the last few nights. After the first night or two, he wasn't eating as much. But, he has been eating all of his ensure/fruit/vegs the last couple nights (he's on Darcy's diet). We still haven't heard anything back from the vet on the necropsy yet, I think we'll call tomorrow if there is still no word.

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#25488 - 09/02/04 02:42 PM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


We received the final results from the necropsy yesterday. Surprisingly enough, they were very informative. It seems the cause of death was most likely liver failure. We also found out the likely cause of the liver infection/failure... though I will not get into that here. It appears Franklin will be fine. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Though there were downsides to having the necropsy done (cost, not being able to have the body back), it provided some much needed closure and piece of mind. I would highly suggest having one performed if anyone else loses a glider to mysterious causes.


Edited by Sih (09/02/04 03:44 PM)

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#25489 - 09/02/04 02:45 PM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Liver failure seems to be one of the more common causes of death with gliders... Since you got a necropsy done, would you please go to the death data base (http://www.sugargliders.org/quask/deathdatabase/deathdatabase.htm) and fill in information on your baby. Hopefully the information collected will help other gliders in the future...

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#25490 - 09/02/04 03:36 PM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The liver failure most likely resulted from another condition which will be kept private. And yes, I will go fill out the information you suggested. Thanks.

edit: I'm having problems with the "death database". It starts to load and then freezes. I've used more than one browser, same result. I'm fairly proficient with computers, but have never heard of quask before. Does anyone have any suggestions?


Edited by Sih (09/02/04 04:06 PM)

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#25491 - 09/02/04 05:50 PM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
I'm sorry you're having trouble loading the death database. It should load like any HTML page, though it's a little rich in graphics, and can take a few moments to load. Please try again, and then let me know if you have any further troubles with it. With my fast connection, I don't have any problems, but I have wondered if it would be hard for dial-up connections to load the survey.
_________________________


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#25492 - 09/02/04 05:53 PM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
If you dont mind me asking, why are you choosing to keep the information private if it may be able to help out other gliders in the long run?

I am sorry for your loss, and I am happy that you have closure but I do not understand why you are keeping the findings other than liver failure, so private?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#25493 - 09/02/04 08:43 PM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"magenta"]i agree. i know you must be in alot of pain, but even those without gliders (like myself) are interested to know all the whys and wherefores. [/]

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#25494 - 09/03/04 02:31 AM Re: sick glider [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I'm sorry you're having trouble loading the death database. It should load like any HTML page, though it's a little rich in graphics, and can take a few moments to load. Please try again, and then let me know if you have any further troubles with it. With my fast connection, I don't have any problems, but I have wondered if it would be hard for dial-up connections to load the survey.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I have a broadband connection, so that is not the problem. Also, it isn't just "loading slow", it's actually freezing the browser. I've tried with more than one browser (ie, myie2/maxthon, firefox) all with the same result. I see the form/database is powered by quask (which I've never heard of), could this be causing the problem? I'll keep trying...

As for not describing all the findings... hopefully we will be able to, we just need to talk to some people first.

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