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#25654 - 08/25/04 01:21 PM Feeding baby chicks to gliders?
SkyBlueGliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 1314
Loc: Northern New Jersey
Hey everyone,
well i know this question was asked before but i cannot find it. Basically i was wondering if feeding baby chicks( the fuzzy little yellow chicks) to gliders is something that is healthy or something that should be left alone. Just wanted to get people's opinions on this..

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#25655 - 08/25/04 01:24 PM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I know some zoos do it. I don't know if anybody on the board has though... In the wild, they would eat hatchlings, so it wouldn't be unnatural, but with the feeding of any live prey you need to worry about parasites and things of the sort. The way to avoid that would be to freeze the chicks for a minimum of 48 hours before you offer them to the gliders.

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#25656 - 08/25/04 01:28 PM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


My babies love live prey. The vet recomended "Pinkeys" (baby mice) They look too much like my suggies to me for comfort!!!
--Kat

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#25657 - 08/25/04 02:13 PM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


do you freeze them live? i shudder at the thought.

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#25658 - 08/25/04 04:49 PM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm a bird lover and just don't see myself doing that. But my gliders get pinkies from time to time. But hey whatever is best for the suggies I say!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

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#25659 - 08/25/04 09:04 PM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Carrie T Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/01
Posts: 4049
Loc: Doniphan Mo
Yes I have heard of people feeding hatchlings but I kind of thought the pinkies were the best I could do. I only fed those to Sassy while she was pregnant. Opps Hubby fed them for me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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#25660 - 08/25/04 11:21 PM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
hipbchik Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 02/16/04
Posts: 2470
Loc: Tucson, AZ
This is kind of off Topic, but is it a good idea to feed pinkys to pregnant gliders? I know Naoshi's not eating much BML & I've been worried about her protein...
_________________________
peace~carolyn



"Your mind is the birthplace of ingenuity and then you need your heart as the Mediator..." ~Lil C

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#25661 - 08/25/04 11:31 PM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Look im sorry and i think this is just disgusting. I am sure i'll get all kinds of slack for this but that is just wrong. Yeah in the wild im sure they catch hatchlings, but putting a baby bird in the freezer alive is just cruel and inhumane. If you are going to do that why dont you just get regular chicken or something. I realize you want your gliders to be healthy, but they are living in captivity. There are other ways to supplement the diet such as by giving them regular meat or mealies or egg or something. But the thought of watching your pets eat a helpless bird alive while its caged and has not chance of escape is just inhumane, and putting a live animal in the freezer is so gross and cruel. Especially considering that you can go to a health food store or soemthing and buy chicken that was raised without hormones and at least wasnt killed in the freezer. You could at least give the bird the dinity to die a quick death. And the same goes for the pinkies. If you want to feed your gliders meat go ahead, but if you are going to go to the trouble please just make sure the baby dies humanely and not in a freezer. And if you are going ot go to the trouble to buy a baby bird and freeze it to death it might be better use of time and money to just go buy some chicken that was raised organically.

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#25662 - 08/26/04 12:59 AM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> [:"magenta"]abby rio and sydney, you are not gonna get any slack from me! i agree with you! i would never have the heart to feed pinkies or chickies to my suggies. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> it sounds horribly cruel to me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> just my humble opinion. [/]

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#25663 - 08/26/04 04:43 AM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, there is actually some logical reasoning about freezing chicks/mice...

1: it's not a gruesome as letting the gliders kill them
2: it reduce the risk of the gliders getting injured by the chick/mouse
3: It kills most bacteria and parasites

Also, feeding whole chicks and mice (pinkies) has some awesome benefits for gliders. They are very high in nutrients and minerals. It's also a go enrichment activity because it stimulates their natural prey drive... It's not any more cruel than nature. If you can't handle it, then don't feed them, but please don't criticize others for doing it.

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#25664 - 08/26/04 06:34 AM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
Feeding any uncooked meat is a risky venture. Freezing the chicks or pinkies does NOT kill the bacteria. It only goes dormant and as soon as the meat is thawed the bacteria becomes active again. Boiling will kill the bacteria. There is no logical argument for feeding a sugar glider live prey. We are dealing with captive sugar gliders here. In no way can we duplicate their enviorment or diets in the wild. So why even go there. Unless you happen to be one of those individuals that happens to enjoy seeing the gliders kill things.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#25665 - 08/26/04 07:20 AM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
There is no logical argument for feeding a sugar glider live prey. We are dealing with captive sugar gliders here.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Are you saying there is no enrichment value to feeding live prey in captive animals? If so, I would have to strongly beg to differ... Just because they are captive does not mean they have a diminished prey drive. People thinking that because an animal is domesticated or captive it doesn't need to have it's prey drive stimulated is the #1 reason there are so many obese animals.

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#25666 - 08/26/04 07:31 AM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" /> [:"magenta"] i am sorry, but i fail to understand how anyone who cares for animals can go on about their business knowing there are baby chicks freezing to death in the kitchen. i am sorry. i do not mean to offend anybody. but i just do not get that at all. insects are one thing. but pinkies and chicks are quite another. just my opinion. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" /> [/]

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#25667 - 08/26/04 07:38 AM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


What about snakes? They need to eat mice, chicks, rabbits, rats, etc. If you didn't feed them, they would die... Are you saying that just because an animal is cute and cuddly that it has more of a right to live than others? I would rather not get into this discussion... I'll leave it at this: It's a personal choice whether or not to feed mice/chicks to gliders. If you can't handle it, don't do. But, don't hold it against others for doing what they feel is right. It's a natural part of life.
**I don't feel mice/chicks to my gliders, but that has more to do with being paranoid than thinking it's wrong. I actually plan of feeding pinkies when I move out on my own and breed my own, so I can take proper disease control measures...

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#25668 - 08/26/04 07:50 AM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


In the wild, some of the animals have a chance to eacape. They can't get to far in a cage. I agree, just go buy chicken from the store. Who could put a little alive chick in the freezer, and let him freeze to death. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

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#25669 - 08/26/04 08:06 AM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> [:"magenta"]what i am saying is that it would be much easier for me to put insects in a freezer than chicks or pinkies. and yes, it IS because chicks and mice are cute. so what? (it is called the halo effect.) sorry, but if i could put live chicks/mice in my freezer, i would not have a conscience. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> i find it interesting you brought up the snake thing. if i was in a position to feed a snake, i would keep the mouse as a pet, and let the snake starve! and actually, that is different. to my knowledge, snakes cannot be fed any other way. gliders can get their protein from other sources. cats also have a killing instinct. does that mean cat "parents" should be freezing live prey for their pets? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" /> i sure hope not. if somebody wants to freeze live mice/chicks for their pets, i cannot stop them. but personally, i think they should be charged with animal cruelty. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tantrum.gif" alt="" /> just my humble opinion. think of me as a harsh judgmentalist if you like. but that is where i stand, and nobody is gonna change my mind on this subject. [/]

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#25670 - 08/26/04 08:42 AM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would have to say it is a personal decision and I wouldnt blame somebody for doing what they think is best for the glider. However, I agree that it is avoidable so why go to that gruesome extreme. I dont think my gliders have, nor do they need, much of a hunt instinct. They live in captivity where I bring them prepared dinner every night. Not to mention placing a newborn mouse in a cage doesnt leave much room for a hunt. And while freezing the pinkies may be the better way to feed them, I think letting any live animal slowly die in your freezer is just sick. My opinion is very biased of course because I am very much for animal rights. But dont think I am trying to tell anybody else what to do, you do what you feel is best. This is just how I feel.

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#25671 - 08/26/04 09:05 AM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Okay, just so you all know. I have not nor ever intend to freeze live animals. The reason I posted about it is because that is how zoos feed gliders baby chicks. This post needs to become more civil or it's going to be closed by mods and we will loose it as a tool...

That said, here's my personal opinion on feeding gliders live prey and environmental enrichment...

Feeding gliders live prey is very risky. There is a high chance of bacteria, parasites, and injury. I would never feed my gliders a mouse purchased from a pet store. I do feel that all predatory animals have a prey drive. You can see it with most gliders when you offer them a bug or wave a feather around in front of them. I think that it's very important to stimulate that predatory instinct in captive animals to prevent mental problems, but there are other ways to go about it other than feeding live prey. The reason I mentioned live prey is because that was the original topic of this post. There are many different toys that you can buy or make that have similar enrichment qualities to live prey. Feather teasers, practice golf balls with treats inside, and foraging units are just a few. I feel that it is very important to have this type of stimulation for captive animals. Another option, for those comfortable with it and willing to take the risk involved, is live prey. For those that feel it's brutal, very well then, but just like you, people that feed live prey are only doing what they feel is best for their glider. You can have your opinions, but keep them to yourself. There are many members of this board that feed pinky mice and they may take it as a personal attack when somebody says...
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
if somebody wants to freeze live mice/chicks for their pets, i cannot stop them. but personally, i think they should be charged with animal cruelty.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
For the sake of the board, please think before you post things like that... Posting here is not a right, it is a privilege and should be treated as such.
Also, freezing mice/chicks is actually the most humane way you can safely euthanize an feeder animal.

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#25672 - 08/26/04 09:07 AM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


CharlieH is correct when he states that freezing does not kill bacteria but only puts most bacteria into a dormant state. The same is true with respect to many parasitic organisms when in the cyst stage. On the other hand, cooking does because it alters the protein structure of the organisms so it doesn't function as it should. Since proteins are involved in chemical processes essential for life, changing its protein dooms the bacteria/parasitic organisms while freezing usually does not disrupt their protein structure.

For those chosing to feed live or frozen pinkies, etc., please realize that there could be possible health risks if any of the live/frozen pinkies, etc. are contaminated with bacteria and/or parasitic organisms.

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#25673 - 08/26/04 10:13 AM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just want to jump away from this dangerous topic!!!

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#25674 - 08/26/04 10:21 AM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> [:"magenta"] i apologize if i have offended anybody with my last post, as i feel very strongly about this issue. i think what i am having a problem with is not that we are in disagreement. i am angry because i feel as though i am being told how/what to think. if somebody, anybody, says to me "i am going to do this or that," i am ok with that. it is their choice, not mine. but, if somebody also says, "you cannot think any less of me for it," that is where the problem lies. as stated, it is a personal choice. and i cannot stop anybody on this board from doing whatever they like. however, i also feel that nobody can stop me from holding it against the person in question. [/]

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#25675 - 08/26/04 11:21 AM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


all I have to say is people who are agaist feeding baby chicks and mice to animals and if they them selves eat chicken/ beef or pork shame on them for being so hypercritical! Sorry. DId that animal that you are eating not have to suffer in some way so you can enjoy a nice meal? then what is different from you and the person that feeds pinkies or chicks? What just because you are not doing the killing it is ok? Don't hold it against anyone who has ever or does feed pinkies or chicks to there animals are you so perfect? And you would rather make a snake suffer and starve to death then feed it.....how cruel is that? Just my oppinions don't like it sorry, you all have shared yours <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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#25676 - 08/26/04 11:33 AM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: RSXTC]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"magenta"]i never claimed to be perfect. i am sorry if i have offended you. i suppose i should stop posting, as even when i apologize, nobody seems to want me around. [/]

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#25677 - 08/26/04 11:38 AM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: RSXTC]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
but, if somebody also says, "you cannot think any less of me for it," that is where the problem lies.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
I guess this is where the statement "judge not least ye be judged" comes into play... You more or less said that people feeding live animals are animal abusers. Don't be so quick to pass judgment. It may come and bite you in the butt and think that's all we're trying to tell you. Also, instead of criticizing people that feed live animals, why don't you research it. Contact your vet or a local zoo. They can tell you the pros and cons of feeding live animals.

Also, sil, you have a point... What's the difference between feeding a chick and giving our gliders chicken baby food? It call from the same bird, you're just cutting out a few steps when you feed chicks...

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#25678 - 08/26/04 11:53 AM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"magenta"] but that is just it. i do not mind if somebody thinks less of me. i know i have many strange habits which people do not understand. if somebody judges me for it, ok. that is their decision. i have apologized twice. i get the feeling that many do not want me on this board at all. and you know what? they may be right! i have no gliders. i won't for several years, if ever. what place do i have here? NONE![/]

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#25679 - 08/26/04 12:09 PM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


It is good to have your own opinion and stick to it even when things get ugly. That's our right. Alot of people would just say forget it and back down. I think that freezing them is sad too, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/upset.gif" alt="" /> but I also believe that people are doing it for the good of there friend and that's why everyone is getting so upset. Hurt feelings. There is no right and wrong answer, just people with feelings. It's very sad that everyone wants to fight about it. To everyone on here Our suggies are our babies our friends. Not something stuck in a cage to look at every now and then so we all do what is best for our friend. Right!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#25680 - 08/26/04 12:10 PM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Sheila Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/05/00
Posts: 5363
Loc: Ok
In the wild they eat at least one mouse a week. Some people try and follow as close of a diet as in the wild by feeding things that a glider would find in nature. You will not find a baby chick in the jungles of Australia, but it is a substitute for the rat, mouse or baby bird. I imagine there are a lot more birds around than mice anyway. If you can get past the emotions of freezing a live chick, you can still run the risk of any parasite coming into your glider's domain. If you want to add extra protein, it is best to purchase chicken that has been inspected in a grocery, boil it and freeze your pieces. Dry foods such as Mazuri can also give you the extra protein for breeding females if that is your concern.

There was someone that said her glider was not eating the BML as well. First of all, a large glider will eat more. Gliders don't eat as heavy in the early summer, but seem to pick back up in the fall (I guess getting ready for the winter) I don't know who tells them that in our homes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> I have found that even with my SweetPotato BML recipe that I have a few that even when nursing slow down and this bothers me. If I take a few frozen crickets and imbed them in the BML cube when it is a little soft, it will force the glider to go after the cricket and lick off the BML. This is a good way to get a glider who has become finicky to start eating it again.
_________________________
ToandFro Gliders

http://www.toandfrogliders.com

USDA Licensed breeder for 12 years and counting!

WE SELL THE STEALTH WHEEL

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#25681 - 08/26/04 12:20 PM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


i want to get this straight. If i want to feed my glider baby chicks or pinky mice what exactly do i have to do to them first to make sure that there is no bacteria or parasites?

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#25682 - 08/26/04 12:33 PM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just wanted to say I agree with sil (a post way up there). I do disagree with freezing live animals and feeding babies in a cage to gliders when they have no chance to excape. But I am also a vegetarian. I eat meat under 1 circumstance: If I kill it. My family hunts, they practice a lot and I am much an advocate of hunting if you practice because animals that are hunted have a chance to run (if being chased by prey) and most importantly, they live a quality live instead of in a pen somewhere that is overcrowded on a meat farm. I feed my gliders venison sometimes. Deer meat is just as lean as chicken, and some cases leaner and it has no fat, low cholesterol and most importantly, it did not die in the freezer. If you wnat your gliders to get the benefit of meat just go buy a chicken, like I said before from a health food store that sells meat that has been raised w/ pure grain food with no chemicals, pesticides or growth hormones. Because the chickens from the supermarket have growth hormones, and who knows what else. I just boil the meat on the bone and hten cut it it up and mix it with the food. Mine like it a lot, and since it is boiled you dont run the risk you do of feeding a live animal. Many people have no idea where meat or the chicks come from. Do you know if the chicks or pinkies were fed steroids or growth hormones? What about the food they were fed? I think its something worth thinking about before you feed it to a glider and let the glider kill it while it cant excape, or freeze it to death for no reason. I'm not trying to be mean, you all have a right to your ideas, but I just think that there are other ways to give your gliders nutrients besides freezing babies to death.

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#25683 - 08/26/04 12:34 PM Re: Feeding baby chicks to gliders? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've had this discussion many times in the past, and no, freezing is not the best way to euthanize any warm blooded or cold blooded feeder animal. The formation of ice crystals in tissue is incredibly slow and painful, as most mammals fight the whole way down. Use C02.

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