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#267706 - 04/21/07 08:14 PM cat food
Paula0442 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 3008
Loc: Williamsburg, VA & Whg, WV
I've heard from a few people lately that they feed their gliders some of the better brands of cat food.
I'm completely a BML Mom, and doubt that this will ever change, but my curiosity has been peaked about the cat food feeders out there. What would be the positive as opposed to the negative of feeding this?

Please don't let this turn into a diet bashing.
_________________________
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming
WOOOO HOOOO, WHAT A RIDE!!!



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#267710 - 04/21/07 08:18 PM Re: cat food [Re: Paula0442]
Xglider Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 11157
Loc: Tampa, FL
Hey Paula … I was just on the phone talking about this .. and that I have seen several posts … for me … NO… and lately with all the recalls on processed pet food .. I am just as happy to make my gliders dinner my self … lol…
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* ~ * John * ~ * Sorry store is closed at this time.. <br>
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Oct 2012 update.. miss my gliders and my
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#267713 - 04/21/07 08:30 PM Re: cat food [Re: Xglider]
Anonymous
Unregistered


What I have heard from people is that some soften it with juice or nectar or whatever so its not as hard and that some just use it as an emergency staple.
Ive heard some have thrived just fine and had happy healthy babies on it.
Thats just what some have mentioned to me. No real positive health facts though. I dont feed cat food either paula

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#267720 - 04/21/07 08:49 PM Re: cat food [Re: ]
mattysmom Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1234
Loc: Tarpon Springs, FL
I'd look at it like survival food - in a pinch, in a hurricane? When I ran out of everything else, heck, even I might eat it!
_________________________
Moira & Matty & my zoo

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#267756 - 04/21/07 09:33 PM Re: cat food [Re: mattysmom]
Mel2mdl Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 4212
Loc: Garland, TX
I don't feed it to my suggies, but my son used to eat it all the time. (The doctor to me to switch the cat to soft food so Marshall, my son, wouldn't choke - long story, old cat) Sorry - off topic!
_________________________
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#267818 - 04/21/07 11:10 PM Re: cat food [Re: Mel2mdl]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The breeder my husband bought my glider from follows caroline MacPhearsons diet pretty closely. he mixes one handful Cat food with Half a handfull of oatmeal and adds about 5 raisins to it. this is kept in the cage as a staple and I give plenty of low phospherous fruits and vegatables plus her calcium supplement. she readily eats the staple food and has fruits and veggies left over, so she is not eating it as a last resort. I have taken and softened the food with apple juice when I thought she was not eating enough of it, although it did not appear to make her eat a bigger quantity of it. since then I have started crushing the cat food to almost a powder and she seems to do better with it this way and cleans it up with very little that has been chewed and spit out. she seems to be doing well with it , has gained weight and seems to be bright eyed and happy, so i figure why switch? this breeder has been doing it this way since 1990

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#267837 - 04/21/07 11:26 PM Re: cat food [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've often wondered about this too. It'd make feeding a heck of alot easier (and cheaper). (even though I do enjoy preparing the BML) But I doubt my gliders would eat it unless they were starving. And letting it soak in apple juice all day doesn't seem too sanitary. But I suppose if the glider is used to it it'll be ok, or just a snack during the day. (My friend fed it as a main part of the diet and her sugar glider did fine.) I leave out some pellets by Exotic Nutrition its just called "Premium Sugar Glider diet" during the day. But to be honest they probably only eat on or two pellets a day if that. It's surprising the avaliability of suggie food products in my area, but I know Texas does have quite a population of suggies. Anyway I'm rambling and probably not helping much. I'd say don't add it unless your suggie is used to it.

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#267861 - 04/22/07 12:03 AM Re: cat food [Re: ]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Paula, you might find this thread interesting: Caroline MacPherson's Simplified Diet - thoughts?

As with any diet plan, you'll want to follow it as "prescribed." That includes any recommended brands of cat food, and other components of Caroline’s Simplified Diet. Any modifications should be discussed with the developer of the diet to ensure the overall balances are kept in check (and this includes more than just the Ca:P ratios). wink
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• 2003: Hiroshi (M)
• 2009: Herbie (M)

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• 2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
• 2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
• 2010: BJ (M)
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#267904 - 04/22/07 03:00 AM Re: cat food [Re: KattyM]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
First, I don't think it's good for gliders. Second...neither does my vet. For the following reasons:

It was developed for a carnivore, not an omnivore. So all the ratios are off for a glider.

The ash content is very high (possibly contributing to UTI and other organ issues.

Hard foods DO cause mouth/gum issues

So, simply, that's all I have to say on cat food and gliders. I'm not attacking anyone's diet choices, just how I and my vets feel about it.
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Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#267916 - 04/22/07 04:14 AM Re: cat food [Re: Xfilefan]
eccles Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Devon
Ok I am at work so cant answer as i would like to but would like to point anyone whos interested in cat foor as PART of a balanced glider diet to look at this thread here

http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/207751/page/0/fpart/1


I will add more about my opinions on cat food as part of my diet this evening or tomorrow,


Edited by eccles (04/22/07 04:15 AM)
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#267982 - 04/22/07 10:20 AM Re: cat food [Re: eccles]
Anonymous
Unregistered



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#268005 - 04/22/07 11:34 AM Re: cat food [Re: Xglider]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
John -
I was going to reply almost the same thing as you. With the recalls on pet foods - which *INCLUDE* the high end cat and dog foods, and the specialty foods forumlated for vet only use - I'm too scared to feed cat food to my gliders!

Maybe the holistic brands that are available at health food stores? I suggest that, because I don't think they have the grains that have been the cause of the problem in the tainted foods.
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#268101 - 04/22/07 02:34 PM Re: cat food [Re: ValkyrieMome]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The tainted pet food is mainly [censored] grocery store/petsmart brands like Iams and [censored] science diet. (There are more foods on the recall list but they are pretty much ALL [censored] foods that ARENT great quality).

Cat foods like Innova EVO, Wellness, and chicken soup for the cat lover's soul are higher end cat foods that are NOT on the recall list because they have ZERO fillers (by products, corn, etc) and no wheat gluten. These cat food companies don't throw in useless ingredients like most do.

Just my 2 cents smile

When you buy Iams, science diet, purina, pedigree, etc you are paying for a bag of junk. Its like feeding your child junk food all the time.





Edited by FemaleCheetah (04/22/07 02:39 PM)

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#268200 - 04/22/07 05:55 PM Re: cat food [Re: ]
Paula0442 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 3008
Loc: Williamsburg, VA & Whg, WV
Thanks for everyone's 2 cents. It was interesting to read everyone's opinion, but like I said, I don't plan on changing my guys. The BML has been nothing but great for them.

Also, thanks to all for not diet bashing. I always feel so disappointed when it gets to that.
_________________________
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming
WOOOO HOOOO, WHAT A RIDE!!!



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#268490 - 04/23/07 02:05 AM Re: cat food [Re: Paula0442]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok - on the omnivore/carnivore thing - omnivores means they eat both meat & plant eaters. So *part of* their natural diet is the same exact thing that carnivores eat. So if something is made for a carnivore it could be *part of* an omnivores diet. I don't know of anyone who advocates using cat food as the whole diet but rather *part of* the diet. For an omnivore diet it needs to be balanced out with fruits and veggies. Another thing to keep in mind when you argue this - the ca:P ratios in cat food are actually much more glider-friendly than say chicken or eggs.

As to Ash - many of the high-grade cat foods have much less ash than any of the glider foods out there.

Ok - on the pet food recall - its not just low-end foods. The wheat gluten did hit the low-end foods (and yes I consider science death (oops -diet) a mid to low-end food) however this rice protein concentrate hit some of the high-end foods. Natural Balance was considered a ultra premium food (inline with wellness and chicken soup) and Royal Canine was created to cater to breeders. BTW - Thought you might be interested to know that the makers of Chicken Soup were the ones who were making the batches of venison based food for Natural Balance.

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#268502 - 04/23/07 02:55 AM Re: cat food [Re: Xfilefan]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Xfilefan
First, I don't think it's good for gliders. Second...neither does my vet. For the following reasons:

It was developed for a carnivore, not an omnivore. So all the ratios are off for a glider.

The ash content is very high (possibly contributing to UTI and other organ issues.

Hard foods DO cause mouth/gum issues

So, simply, that's all I have to say on cat food and gliders. I'm not attacking anyone's diet choices, just how I and my vets feel about it.


Cat food is for carnivores yes, but IT HAS BEEN USED FOR 15 YEARS IN THE UK, we have VERY few health issues. The oldest known glider to have been fed cat food all his life died last year at 15 years of age.

I've used the diet for 5 years and I've had ZERO health issues, no 'lumpy jaw' no haemotomochrosis, no intestinal blockages, no UTI's, no constipation.

Hard food DOES NOT cause mouth issues, these animals gnaw at bark and swallow some in the process, it's the soft, sugary diets that cause tooth and gum issues (imagine eating doughnuts and coke without being able to brush your teeth - what's that going to do to your dental health?), the teeth rot and gums to draw back, due to the high sugar content of alot of diets, hard food ONLY irritates this. I've seen a number of reports from vets saying that hard food isn't an issue. In fact the Australian diets use dog kibble! I've also seen reports from vets recommending the use of cat food as a protein source.

This is something I've repeated time and time again (but everyone seems to ignore!) the cat food I use contains LESS ash than the widely accepted Insectivore Fare. What ratio's are off for gliders exactly? Ca:p is 1:1 so that's fine, no added iron (unlike baby food). Don't forget the US diet study which studied 3 different diets including a diet using kibble and if you thoroughly go through the results it came out on top! (oh, I forgot, it's inconclusive!)

Edit: Has anyone considered that if your suggies teeth are breaking then there's a diet issue? Or if your suggie can't fight off a small infection then there's health issues?



Edited by moorie999 (04/23/07 03:37 AM)

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#268532 - 04/23/07 05:52 AM Re: cat food [Re: Paula0442]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
My guys get a few kibbles of cat food everyday. CAT FOOD IS NOT MEANT TO BE THE ENTIRE diet. My guys both eat the kibble willingly and heartily. They are on Pricilla's diet.

As far as the recall - the company who makes the food doesn't matter. ALL pet food companies (including wellness) get their ingredients from different suppliers. These suppliers buy some of their products overseas. It's the overseas products that were tainted. High end, low end, doesn't matter. None of them make their own food. You just have to keep yourself informed.
_________________________
Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:

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#268540 - 04/23/07 06:27 AM Re: cat food [Re: Gossamer]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
moorie, I'm glad yours are happy on it, but I'm also entitled to my opinion, and stated I wasn't attacking yours, or anyone else's, just how I feel about it and very simplified 'why'. It may have an overall ca:ph ratio that's acceptable, but the wrong amounts of other minerals. You're welcome to call Dr. Harris and discuss it if you like, since I refuse to argue the point. Her number is in the database under Utah. As per the poster, this isn't a war...just opinions, and those will differ.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#269325 - 04/24/07 02:54 AM Re: cat food [Re: Xfilefan]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you are giving out inaccurate information that is donkey's old. Do you know where the hard food causes lumpy jaw rumour came from?

How can she know the overall ratio's are wrong when no one knows EXACTLY what SG's vitamin and mineral requirements are? How can she argue with the Australian vets who have studied SG's for alot longer than they've even been in the US?

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#270037 - 04/24/07 06:53 PM Re: cat food [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
It's only 'inaccurate' in your opinion, and I have 3 vets that disagree also-you're welcome to argue the point with them. I have had mouth infections directly related to hard foods-eliminated the hard foods, and the recurrent infections have not come back. This is my experience. You have a different one, and that's fine. I reiterate, though, that I'm not going to argue the point-just relate my experiences, which I've already done, and am now through with this topic.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#270384 - 04/25/07 02:39 AM Re: cat food [Re: Xfilefan]
eccles Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Devon
TBH Xfilefan so little sutdies have been done on the sugar glider vitamin and mineral requirement I think i would rather go with research from the continent they come from than from America, No offence to you but can you not see the logic, the research in Aus about the sugar glider is better than anywhere else because they have been studying them alot longer.

And I dont think Moories post was inacurate at all, she told you about the fact theres no such thing as lumpy jaw in gliders (again) which is Fact! She told you about the lack of exact information regarding the mineral requirements of sugar gliders, again FACT

Anyway the post i was going to reply earlier, i use cat biscuit as part of my diet as its better than egg, insectivorefare, chicken etc for the cal:ph ratios. the rubbish put in it is non existant compaired to insectivore fare, my gliders coats are greyer, smoother and the gliders in a good bill of health on it, i also think its good for them to have something harder to eat in their diet thats good for the teeth, but tbh im repeating myself its all in the post i put a link to and in the post GFM put a link to my reasons are very similar to the others,

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www.southwest-sugargliders.co.uk

For all your UK and EU sugar glider needs!

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#270385 - 04/25/07 02:43 AM Re: cat food [Re: eccles]
eccles Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Devon
Xfilefan the mouth complaints may not be related to the hard food but could of been caused becuase of the sugars in the soft foods ruining the teeth and the gliders gums are no longer strong enough to cope with the harder foods due to gums receeding and teeth getting lose causing infections which are only related to the state of the teeth not the food that was consumed at the time, sugars are not good for teeth regardless of the species and it will cause problems (i called my dentist who i think everyone agrees knows teeth pretty well)
_________________________
www.southwest-sugargliders.co.uk

For all your UK and EU sugar glider needs!

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#270389 - 04/25/07 03:08 AM Re: cat food [Re: eccles]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Exactly Eccles, you've hit the nail on the head! It's the soft sugary diets and lack of use that causes cavities and causes the gums to recede. The hard food irritates a problem that is already there.

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#270393 - 04/25/07 04:07 AM Re: cat food [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Wow! I'm so elated at how knowledge is evolving here on GC, and it assures me that I wasn't a raging idiot back in the day. lol

I agree with Moorie and always have on this issue, with regards to everything that has been stated. Oz has and always had the answers.

Mikey dance

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#270413 - 04/25/07 07:06 AM Re: cat food [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks Mikey - the voice of reason! smile

Interesting to note though, the evolving knowledge is primarily coming from the UK! tounge Lol - runs and grabs coat!!!

Edit: That was a joke btw!


Edited by moorie999 (04/25/07 07:19 AM)

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#270702 - 04/25/07 01:59 PM Re: cat food [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't think that we can lump all cat foods together and make blanket statements about their mineral content or any other ingredient content. When I was researching feline foods (from the exotic feline preparations to the grocery store brands)I saw a huge huge huge variety in the mineral content and balance. Some have added iron, some don't. Some have measurable ash, some don't. Some have a Ca:p ratio of 1:1. Others have 1:8 or 1:5.

There is no consistency. Just as with glider diets. And by the way, the diet studies as to the "requirements" in a cat diet were funded by pet food manufacturers that are profit motivated. Not independent vets. Most vets sell pet food so they have their own biases and sales reps that "sell" to them.

The Australians that developed glider diets used analyses of stomach contents of dead gliders and extensive observation of what gliders choose in the wild for their information. This is where exotic diets begin - not in our kitchens, but in the forests. And certain brands of prepared foods can be a positive addition to a glider diet.

Also, Jen, cat food is usually served semi-moist and rehydrated on top of the wet mixture. It is not served dry. It's just a diet ingredient that meets the same dietary requirements as the baby food, etc in other diets.


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#271261 - 04/26/07 03:39 AM Re: cat food [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


It's pointless continuing Dee, Xfilefan has already said she is through with the thread, it seems some just don't want to listen to reason.

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#271266 - 04/26/07 04:39 AM Re: cat food [Re: ]
eccles Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 63
Loc: Devon
Thats a shame we were just starting to get into real facts, oh well at least people got to see the truth from people that feed cat food as part of a diet rather than people that dont and are just telling us what they were told in chinese whispers
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www.southwest-sugargliders.co.uk

For all your UK and EU sugar glider needs!

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#271272 - 04/26/07 05:51 AM Re: cat food [Re: ]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
I've been giving my guys a few dry kibbles. Should I be soaking them in something first?
_________________________
Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:

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#272769 - 04/27/07 07:13 PM Re: cat food [Re: Gossamer]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Healthy, well-nourished gliders w/ healthy gums and teeth are probably fine w/crunchy kibble. I put it on top of the mush because I am not a big fan of dry food w/o some moistening because it needs to be rehydrated somewhere - either in the animal's gut which requires enough moisture to do so - or before it reaches the animal's gut. That's why I tend to put mine on top of the mush so that it acquires a little moisture. It's still crunchy on the top and moist on the bottom.

I don't feed dry kibble to my dogs either - I moisten w/water. (And if I had fewer or younger or smaller dogs, I'd feed raw or some other food than kibble)So my personal practice w/dogs carries over to my gliders.

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