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#27851 - 10/22/04 10:47 AM URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts
Anonymous
Unregistered


My poor little Zoe is experiencig her third bout of periodontal gum infection involving the the lower jaw/teeth. She refused to eat/drink last night and is lethargic/cool to touch this A.M. I have her wrapped in a blankie snuggled up inside my shirt and she has warmed up a bit. Even got up the energy to crab at me. I have gotten her to take a miniscule amount of Gerber fruit juice with yogurt/pedialyte. She also took two licks of yogurt for me. My regular vet is off for the weekend and I am taking her to the emergency vet recommended by my vet's office.

Here's the problem. I need to be sure Zoe stays hydrated and plan to have the emergency vet provide sub-q hyration therapy. I want to double-check the initial amount of Lactated Ringers(L.R.) that should bge given sub-q. The info. I have is that 3-6 cc of L.R. should be given initially and then 1 cc q4h (every 4 hours) thereafter as necessary. I also believe a relatively fine needle (25-guage) no longer than one inch (if possible) needs to be used and the site of injection should be up between the shoulder blade area. If Judie, Ellen or someone else knowledgeable about sub-q fluid hydration injections could respond ASAP I'd appreciate it. This is the first time using this emergency vet & I'm not sure how much they really know about gliders. I, therefore, want to be able to provide the appropriate data to them if they have any doubts in the matter. The appointment is set for 1:00 P.M. EST and I must leave my house no later than 12:30 P.M. to be there on time.

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#27852 - 10/22/04 10:51 AM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm not exactly sure, let me find someone to pm you.! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> I hope the wee-one will be alright.!!!

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#27853 - 10/22/04 10:52 AM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16745
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Just put out a call to them Glideroo. They should be along real soon.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#27854 - 10/22/04 11:03 AM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks Peggy & Elizabeth! I keep close tabs on Zoe as she's had periodontal problems since I rescued her 15 months ago but this time is the worst I've seen her. So I want to be on top of things with this emergency vet for Zoe's sake. We were just beginning to make some progress in the trust area. Now that she's sick, she's letting me hold her without much fussing but she's still giving me a crab now & again which I take as a good sign that she's got enough fight left in her to make it. Please keep my little Zoe in your thoughts and prayers. I want her to make it so badly because for the first 3 1/2 years of her life she was left in a filthy cage and never talked to or touched by a human. I want her to know how much she's loved, that she finally has the home she deserves and that she will have many more years of life and love from this human slave.

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#27855 - 10/22/04 11:21 AM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Carrie T Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/01
Posts: 4049
Loc: Doniphan Mo
Here are some vets that will do phone consults. I used them when Cider was in crisis. They came recomended by Bonsia. I hope verything works out. Also a 22g needle was what Judie recomended to me. My initial dose of sub q fluids was 3 ccs but it might depend on how dehydrated they are.

Dr. Sue Chastaine - Preston Road/Chanstaine Medical Group - 972-233-2703;

Effie Giannopoulos - 214/219-2838 City vet Center

Dan Johnson-919-844-9166 Raliegh, North Carolina

I hope Cider is going to be ok. Let us know when you can what is going on....

--------------------
If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is to stop digging!

Melissa
'n The crew

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#27856 - 10/22/04 11:31 AM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I can tell how hard you are fighting for Zoe. Please know she realizes this too and like a sick child, she will respond to all the love you are showing her. Prayers going out for Zoe, and you too. You are an angel sent to this little suggie.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#27857 - 10/22/04 01:42 PM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Zoe is at the E.R. vet who is very knowledgeable. Unfortunately, Zoe has taken a turn for the worse and now exhibits a plethora of symptoms. As a result, she's on oxygen, has been given Lasix, Baytril and Aminophylline in an effort to reduce the pulmonary edema & ease her labored breathing. vet is unsure whether Zoe actually has congenital congestive heart/right kidney problems or if the congestive heart symptoms are in some way related to the lower jaw infection. Left kidney and liver are normal. The good news is that with oxygen and Lasix, Zoe's color has improved although breathing is still labored. Am to return to the vet's office in an hour to see how things are going. If Zoe is still lethargic, has continued labored breathing and pulmonary edema, the prognosis will be poor for Zoe's survival.

Please send prayers, hugs & kisses Zoe's way. She really needs them right now.

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#27858 - 10/22/04 02:30 PM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Carrie T Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/01
Posts: 4049
Loc: Doniphan Mo
Oh gosh, I'm sending all my thoughts and prayers out. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

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#27859 - 10/22/04 02:36 PM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
O gosh Glideroo, prayers, hugs and kisses go to Zoe, hang in there lil one and fight this!

Karin
_________________________
Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"

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#27860 - 10/22/04 03:40 PM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Sending prayers and good thoughts for Zoe!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#27861 - 10/22/04 04:50 PM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
Glideroo, it would be based on weight, of course, but in my experience, 1 cc every 3-4 hours was sufficient to maintain hydration. When Gladys was very ill, it would sometimes need to be more frequent, as she just wasn't staying hydrated at all. I think you can safely give up to 1 cc when you needed. If I'm wrong, please correct me -- Judie and Ellen taught me what I know about this.
_________________________


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#27862 - 10/22/04 05:52 PM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sending lots of prayers for Zoe. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

You can be sure of that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

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#27863 - 10/22/04 05:56 PM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
Lois, sending many prayers from the Ross family. And special ones from me.

Please keep us posted.

It sounds like your vet is doing all the right things.

Lucy is right the amount given is based on weight and the amount of dehydration. This seems a little more complicated.

Will be waiting to hear from you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Love and kindness is a gift. Use it freely....
My Gallery

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#27864 - 10/22/04 07:26 PM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just got back from the vet's and will try to update what's going on but it's a bit complicated. Zoe has an enlarged right kidney which may be congenital or due to some type of degenerative renal condition. We're not sure at this point. Zoe's left kidney and liver appear to be normal at this time. Zoe does exhibit symptoms of congestive heart failure: pulmonary edema, muffled lung/heart sounds and labored breathing. The vet is not sure whether the gum infection could be responsible for the symptoms or if the condition is congenital. If congenital, Zoe would have to receive Lasix every day for whatever time she has left. Also possible is the fact that Zoe may have endocarditis (possibly related to the gum infection going systemic). She may, on the other hand, have a cardiac embolism causing some of her symptoms. Extensive testing at this point is out as Zoe is weak and unable to handle such testing. The Lasix, Aminophylline and Baytril have helped as has the oxygen. However, when taken out from the special oxygen cage, Zoe's breathing becomes labored within a matter of 10 minutes and the coloring on her nose/feet worsens. The vet has concerns about giving sub-q injections given the pulmonary edema & is only going to give her a half dose of L.R. The good news is that when I returned with some watered down BML, she had a bit more energy than this morning and was crabbing at us on and off. She also ate some of the BML much to the vet's relief.

Zoe will be staying overnight and will be placed in a regular incubator with oxygen and will be given more BML a bit later this evening. I will contact the vet in the morning to see how she's doing. At that point, the vet will take her out of the oxygen incubator & she will again receive injections of Lasix, Baytril and Aminophylline. She will be kept out of the incubator until I arrive so we can determine if her breathing has improved or if continued oxygen is necessary. We will then discuss further course of treatment/prognosis.

Please keep Zoe in your prayers that she is improved in the morning and can handle breathing O.K. without the oxygen. If she can, then the vet feels Zoe will have a decent chance of recovery.

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#27865 - 10/22/04 08:28 PM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16745
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Glideroo, my prayers and thoughts are with you and Zoe at this time. Will be watching for updates. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#27866 - 10/22/04 08:29 PM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Sending prayers of comfort to you and Zoe. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frostyangel.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#27867 - 10/22/04 08:36 PM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3059
Loc: u.s.a.
when my glider had labored breathing die to pnumonia dr dan johnson gave her a shot of 1 1/2 cc sterile saline amakacin 4 mg/kg and reg. penicillin 30 000 iu's for 3 wks also the oxygen for 4 days the shot is all combined given 3 times day and its devide into the gliders weight we also force fed her the bml 3ccs 3 times a day but have your vet contact dr dan 919 844 9166

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#27868 - 10/22/04 11:05 PM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
Please know I am praying for you and your baby.

I am just so glad she seems to have a good vet.

You are a great glider Mom and I know you will do the right thing for your baby.

Bruce sends his prayers too.
_________________________
Love and kindness is a gift. Use it freely....
My Gallery

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#27869 - 10/22/04 11:26 PM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
Same here, Lois. You're amazing. I'm praying for a good report.
_________________________


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#27870 - 10/23/04 02:46 AM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"magenta"] i am sorry little zoe is not feeling well. i sure hope she improves. please update when you can. i am worried about her. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />[/]

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#27871 - 10/23/04 05:08 AM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
SugarBaby22 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 5697
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> Zoe is in my prayers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

How is she doing and how are you holding up? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Linda

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#27872 - 10/23/04 07:19 AM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" />
Any updates on Zoe? I am praying hard for your sweetie! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
Angie

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#27873 - 10/23/04 01:22 PM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Please see my post in Real Stories regarding Zoe.

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#27874 - 10/23/04 01:57 PM Re: URGENT: Need to confirm Sub-Q Fluid Amounts [Re: ]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
Lois, if you don't mind I am going to close this thread so your responses will go to Real Stories.

This is part of the "job" I hate.
_________________________
Love and kindness is a gift. Use it freely....
My Gallery

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