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#27953 - 10/23/04 09:07 PM what is het and luecistic and WFB?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't understand all of the differences and how do you tell?

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#27954 - 10/23/04 09:46 PM Re: what is het and luecistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Het means heterozygous for a trait. It means that it carries the trait but it has one dominate and one recessive gene and the trait is not expressed. WFB means white faced blonde, and it is characterized by a light face with no bars under the ears and some blonde hairs on the body. Leucistic means the glider is all white with black eyes. If I'm wrong about any of this, someone please correct me. If you would like to look at these colors, go to www.thepetglider.com, Joey Nursery, and then click Color Page or you can go to www.toandfrogliders.com and look at her color page. Sheila's website (toandfro) has explanations of the colors as well.

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#27955 - 10/23/04 09:46 PM Re: what is het and luecistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok, a WFB (white-faced blonde) is a glider that is missing its ear stripe under its ear. It looks like they has alot of white on their face, but really it is only less black. Leucistic is an all white glider with black eyes. And a het is a glider that carries a gene, but does not express it. Like if a WFB and a WFB are paired together and their offspring does not show the WFB gene then it is a het or heterozygous. Get it? Have fun learning all of the stuff, once you get a hold of it, the info can be really neat.

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#27956 - 10/23/04 11:09 PM Re: what is het and luecistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Leucistic....Black Eyed White. Gene is recessive so "both parents" must carry the gene.

Leucistic Het....glider is of normal coloration but carries recessive gene. Must have one Leucistic/Black Eyed Parent

Possible Leucistic Het...glider is of normal coloration and has a 60% of being a carrier of the recessive gene with 40% chance it does not. Both parents are Leucistic Hets and normal colored so there will be a Leucistic/Black Eyed White gradparent on each side.

White Face Blonde...typical all white face with stripe between the eyes. No barring under the ears and usually lacks bold eye rings. The gene that produces the White Face Blonde is Co-dominate. Thus...only one parent needs to carry the gene to produce this coloration in it's offspring.

White Face Blonde Het...normal coloration but produced by one or two White Faced Blondes.


Edited by Judie (10/23/04 11:12 PM)
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#27957 - 11/09/04 03:43 PM Re: what is het and luecistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


A possible leucistic het is any glider that has a leucistic in its geneology. Because the gene is recessive it can never be gauranteed out of the line. You can have a 100% het and a normal then only 25% of the joeys might possess the gene. or you can have two 100% hets and 2 out of 3 will be hets. If there is any possibility of carrying the gene evidenced in the geneology then all joeys that do not show white are possible hets until they are proven by producing white.

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#27958 - 11/10/04 01:27 AM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"blue"] Chris:

Your comments are, I believe, consistent with my limited understanding of genetics and the information that is commonly posted on GC. One thing does puzzle me, however, and that is exactly what do you mean by a 100% het?? Seems to me that an animal is either homozygous or heterozygous and nothing in between. Either you are or you aren't.....what is a 50% het??? [/]

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#27959 - 11/10/04 03:20 AM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
.....Het means heterozygous for a trait. It means that it carries the trait but it has one dominate and one recessive gene and the trait is not expressed.....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

[:"blue"] Southern Bell & LaurenE:

As I understand it the above is not quite accurate. Traits, characteristics or whatever you choose to call them are determined by gene(or more properly allele) pairs. If the pair is made up of two alleles that are identical, then it is homozygous and an animal with this gene pair will always exhibit the particular trait.
On the other hand, if a gene pair has two different alleles, then it is heterozygous and an animal who possesses such a pair is known as a het. It is commonly suggested on this board that a het will be "normal" and not exhibit the trait for which the animals a het. Unfortunately, that idea is just not true!!! Whether or not or to what degree a particular trait will be expressed depend upon whether the allele pair have a dominant/recessive or a co-dominant relationship. Let me offer an example. In Mendel's famous experiment with the pea plants, he crossed(bred) tall pea plants with short pea plants. All of the resulting plants were tall because the allele for short plants is recessive. On the other hand, if you cross red-flowered
4 o'clocks with white-flowered 4 o'clocks, you get a plant with a pink flower. The color alleles are co-dominant.

Bottom line is that you may not be able to tell much about an animals genetics by looking at him. You need to know an animal's genealogy and his reproductive history to have a good feel for his genetic make-up.

BTW, talking abouts WFBs, hets and possible breeding results is a bit tricky since there may be more than one gene involved.....one for the white-face trait and one for the blond trait??? [/]

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#27960 - 11/10/04 04:16 AM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
.....Possible Leucistic Het...glider is of normal coloration and has a 60% of being a carrier of the recessive gene with 40% chance it does not. Both parents are Leucistic Hets and normal colored so there will be a Leucistic/Black Eyed White gradparent on each side......

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
[:"blue"]Judie:
I've seen this 60/40 thing posted before; but don't really understand how it is derived. Can you offer a simple explanation of how this number is derived??? [/]



</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
.....White Face Blonde...typical all white face with stripe between the eyes. No barring under the ears and usually lacks bold eye rings. The gene that produces the White Face Blonde is Co-dominate. Thus...only one parent needs to carry the gene to produce this coloration in it's offspring......

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
[:"blue"] There is another thread going right now in which Sheila suggests that the WFB gene is recessive. Obviously, there is difference a of opinion!! Is there a predominant opinion here or do we really just not what the actual facts are?? Am also wondering if we are talking about a single gene here?? I know that people have claimed to have WF cinnamons. Is it possible that there 2 genes operating here .....one for the WF trait and one for the blond trait?? [/]



</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
.....White Face Blonde Het...normal coloration but produced by one or two White Faced Blondes.....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
[:"blue"] I can understand how a WFB het and a WFB blond could produce a normal colored het.....although, if the WFB gene is co-dominant, it would seem that most hets should exhibit the WFB trait. Seems to me though, that 2 WFB parents should always produce WFBs unless the parents are actually only hets which exhibit the WFB trait???

I hope you can clarify some of these points for me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/question.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/question.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/question.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/question.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/question.gif" alt="" />

Thanks.[/]

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#27961 - 11/10/04 05:13 PM Re: what is het and luecistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


well u have been given some good info by other posters to give u a general undertanding. Tho some of the ideas differ some on what is what the basics are still there.
The squares charting method can be very helpful to breeders who are working with mutations or trying to figure out what strengths they have,aswell as for those who really what to understand this in depth.
I too believe that the WF gene and blonde gene are two seperate genes. I believe the WF works more like a factor which means that it works with other mutations. so for example we can get WF cins, WF greys aswell as WF blondes .Further backing this idea is that blondes can be produced with out the WF gene at all too.

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#27962 - 11/10/04 11:05 PM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
White Face gene is not recessive. I beleive I proved the white face gene is dominant by breeding a leucistic to a wf blonde. The offspring of this breeding expressed the wf coloration and yet was a leucistic het as it has since produced a white baby when bred to another leucistic het.

A dominant gene can be expressed in a single or double dose at the same locus. It will also suppress and mask a recessive gene.

A recessive gene can only be achieved by double dosing thus....both parents must possess the gene to produce the coloration.

So, as to how Sheila says the White Face gene is recessive...I do not quite understand.


Edited by Judie (11/10/04 11:14 PM)
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#27963 - 11/11/04 12:14 AM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Sheila Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/05/00
Posts: 5363
Loc: Ok
Nope, I don't think I said the WFB gene was recessive, I did say it was dominate and not recessive.
_________________________
ToandFro Gliders

http://www.toandfrogliders.com

USDA Licensed breeder for 12 years and counting!

WE SELL THE STEALTH WHEEL

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#27964 - 11/11/04 05:03 AM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Nope, I don't think I said the WFB gene was recessive, I did say it was dominate and not recessive.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

[:"blue"] My mistake.....it was late.....sorry. I overlooked the "not". But I still have a question of Judie. Originally you said the gene was co-dominant; but your most recent post said the gene was dominant. As I understand it, those are different alternatives. Which alternative do you believe is the true situation?? Thanks.

And one last question for Judie.....do you believe we are talking about a WF gene and a Blond gene or just a WFB gene??? [/]

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#27965 - 11/11/04 05:55 AM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
White Face gene is not recessive. I believe I proved the white face gene is dominant by breeding a leucistic to a wf blonde. The offspring of this breeding expressed the wf coloration and yet was a leucistic het as it has since produced a white baby when bred to another leucistic het.

A dominant gene can be expressed in a single or double dose at the same locus. It will also suppress and mask a recessive gene.

A recessive gene can only be achieved by double dosing thus....both parents must possess the gene to produce the coloration.

So, as to how Sheila says the White Face gene is recessive...I do not quite understand.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

[:"blue"] I understand and agree with all but one comment in this post. Concerning your "proof", I agree that your breeding experiment "proves" that the WFB trait is dominant to the leucistic trait; but it doesn't seem to necessarily prove that the WFB trait is dominant to other color traits. The following is a quote from another current "breeding" thread and my comment.....

Actually it is a little to long and complicated to copy here. I hope Judie and Sheila can migrate to that thread and answer some of the questions raised. Thanks.

Is The WFB Trait Dominant??

[/]

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#27966 - 11/11/04 09:13 AM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Boy, I think we need help here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />

From what I am reading you are saying that only a recessive gene produces a het. Otherwords there is no such thing as a wf blonde het or any other het unless it is recessive? Thus the phrase of "What you get is what you see" means?
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#27967 - 11/11/04 01:49 PM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
.....I think we need help here.....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I couldn't agree more!!! I'm really not making any hard statements here.....just asking some questions because I don't understand exactly what is happening. What I do know is that there is a bunch of breeding/genetics information that is generally accepted in the glider community; but if you look at it closely, there seem to be some contradictions so i'm just trying to find someone with the answers or at least someone with a lot of 1st hand breeding experience who can offer a little insight. [/]


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
.....that only a recessive gene produces a het. Otherwords there is no such thing as a wf blonde het or any other het unless it is recessive.....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

[:"blue"] No, not exactly. You have to remember that a het only means that the animal carries a gene pair for a particular trait that has two non-identical alleles. So yes, there are always hets resulting from certain breedings; but whether or not the het exhibits a particular trait depends on the dominant/recessive relationship of the two alleles. In the example of a WF, if the WF allele is recessive then the het should never exhibit the trait while if the trait is dominant it should always be expressed. Since neither alternative seems to be true 100% of the time, either we are barking up the wrong tree or there is at least a third alternative. At one time you said the WF gene was co-dominant. I have heard the term before; but don't really know what it means. It suggests to me that the two alleles are of more or less equal "influence" and that sometimes you get a recessive outcome and sometimes you get a dominant outcome. But that is really just wild speculation since I have no firm knowledge of what co-dominance means.

Do you have any thoughts on co-dominance or how it works?

My Dad had dark hair and my Mom was a red head. From a distance, what little hair I have left is dark; but if you look closely on a bright sunny day, I actually have quite a bit of red hair. Is that co-dominance or is that something else?? Is co-dominance an either/or thing or is it gradational thing?? Sure hope someone can help!! [/]

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#27968 - 11/11/04 02:14 PM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
White Face gene is not recessive. I beleive I proved the white face gene is dominant by breeding a leucistic to a wf blonde. The offspring of this breeding expressed the wf coloration and yet was a leucistic het as it has since produced a white baby when bred to another leucistic het.

A dominant gene can be expressed in a single or double dose at the same locus. It will also suppress and mask a recessive gene.

A recessive gene can only be achieved by double dosing thus....both parents must possess the gene to produce the coloration.

So, as to how Sheila says the White Face gene is recessive...I do not quite understand.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Just because you bred a WFB to a leucistic and it produced a white faced does not mean it is a dominate gene. It is dominate to leucistic yes but not to the normal coloration, which is what really matters. Because it is not always shown when bred to a normal it is a recessive gene. It is not codominate because it cannot be partially shown with the normal coloration.

As for a 100% het. A 100% het is a term used by breeders to denote that a particular gene concidered was homozygous in one of the parents but is not in the offspring.

A possible het is a term used by breeders to denote a particular gene being considered was possibly heterozygous in at least one of the parents.

A Proven het is a term used by breeders to denote that a gene being considered in a possible heterozygous individual produced a homozygous offspring when bred to another heterozygous or homozygous mate of the same gene being considered.

A 67% Possible het is a term used by breeders to denote that both parents are 100% hets or Proven hets and that the resulting punnance square predicts a 67% chance that the resulting offspring will be a heterozygote for the gene being considered.

A 33% Possible het is a term used by breeders to denote that only one of the parents was a 100% or Proven het of the gene being considered and that the resulting punnance square predicts that there is a 33% chance the offspring will be a het for the gene being concidered.

Ushuaia

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#27969 - 11/11/04 03:40 PM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
If recessive means both parents must carry the recessive gene to produce the recessive coloration....how come then the wf blonde when bred to a normal will produce wf offspring when the normal color never expressed this type of coloration in the first place?

Co-dominant caused the homozygous form to look different than the norm standard. The hets will have traits of both parents. Wf blonde hets ...some are very very light but still have a trace of the barr under the ear. Coloration may be darker or lighter than the parents with a few who look like normals.

It only takes one co-dominant gene to cause the animal to look different. Is this true or not? This would seem to explaine the wf blonde.

Thus..the gene that may be responsible for the wf blonde I feel is co-dominant to the dominant gene that produces the normal variation. Is this correct? As this is how I thought it worked.

Hey guys...I have never claimed to be an expert. So, these excercises benefit us all. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Edited by Judie (11/12/04 01:56 AM)
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#27970 - 11/12/04 12:38 AM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
.....well u have been given some good info by other posters to give u a general understanding. Tho some of the ideas differ some on what is what the basics are still there......

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

[:"blue"] There is a lot of good information here at GC and I have learned a lot from other members. Unfortunately, there is also some inaccurate information posted so I am in the habit of going to outside sources as well. I've looked at several books on genetics from the library for additional insight. That has been helpful but not the total answer. Seems like the books are written either for third graders(to simplistic) or Ph.D.s(to complicated) so I'm still looking for answers. [/]

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#27971 - 11/12/04 01:52 AM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Well, as soon as you can figure it out...please help. This is so frustrating. At one point it seems so simple and then it becomes too complicated. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#27972 - 11/12/04 05:22 AM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"blue"] I was expecting YOU to straighten ME out <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/exclamation.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/exclamation.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/exclamation.gif" alt="" />[/]

[]http://usgn.org/board/images/smiles/rofl3.gif[/]

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#27973 - 11/12/04 09:08 AM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> Randy I HAVE to have that lil guy!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#27974 - 11/12/04 09:22 AM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
If recessive means both parents must carry the recessive gene to produce the recessive coloration....how come then the wf blonde when bred to a normal will produce wf offspring when the normal color never expressed this type of coloration in the first place?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I suspect that this is not a variation limited to just one allele on a gene that it involves more than one gene and that the combination of these genes might produce various shades and patterns but that the parents must have all the necessary genes to produce the "WFB". This would make sense given that normals bred to WFB's are not always WFB and sometimes show some traits. There is a natural variation seen in even normals with regards to the shades of grey they have, this variation is carried over in the joeys, this might explain the variation of shades you are describing.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Co-dominant caused the homozygous form to look different than the norm standard. The hets will have traits of both parents. Wf blonde hets ...some are very very light but still have a trace of the barr under the ear. Coloration may be darker or lighter than the parents with a few who look like normals.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

If the variation was dominate to normal there would be no co-dominance. This further proves that the variation is not dominate. Co-dominance can involve more than one gene as well as environmental interactions. The more the pedigree appears to not follow Mendillian genetics and simple Punnance squares the more it looks like it is more than one gene interaction.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
It only takes one co-dominant gene to cause the animal to look different. Is this true or not? This would seem to explain the wf blonde.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Co-dominance is not a single gene it is the interaction of two or more genes. Co-dominance does play a role that is evidenced by the fact that there are White Faced Gliders and White Faced Blonde Gliders.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Thus the gene that may be responsible for the wf blonde I feel is co-dominant to the dominant gene that produces the normal variation. Is this correct? As this is how I thought it worked.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

The genes that cause this interaction are probably co-dominate yes, that means they are about equil in their ability to show the variation.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Hey guys...I have never claimed to be an expert. So, these exercises benefit us all.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I am by no means an expert I am just using my understanding of genetics to interpret the same information as you, I just have more background in the subject.

Ushuaia

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#27975 - 11/15/04 06:39 AM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
.....You can have a 100% het and a normal then only 25% of the joeys might possess the gene.....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
[:"blue"] Chris: I don't understand the above?? I did a Prunnett square for the above pairing and the result I find is that you would get:

2 homozygous dominant(normal)
2 heterozygous(normal color but carries the recessive gene)

That would be 50%, not 25%?? Did I make a mistake?? [/]


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
..... or you can have two 100% hets and 2 out of 3 will be hets.....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
[:"blue"] I likewise did a Prunnett square for this second pairing and the result seems to be:

1 homozygous dominant(normal)
2 heterozygous(normal color but carries the recessive gene)
1 homozygous recessive(exhibits recessive trait)

That still works out to 50% hets, not 67%. Again, did I make a mistake??

I don't understand your figures. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />[/]

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#27976 - 11/15/04 07:11 AM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
.....A 67% Possible het is a term used by breeders to denote that both parents are 100% hets or Proven hets and that the resulting punnance square predicts a 67% chance that the resulting offspring will be a heterozygote for the gene being considered.

A 33% Possible het is a term used by breeders to denote that only one of the parents was a 100% or Proven het of the gene being considered and that the resulting punnance square predicts that there is a 33% chance the offspring will be a het for the gene being concidered.....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

[:"blue"] Chris:

I've done Prunnett squares until I'm blue on the face(that's a recessive allele in my family tree []http://usgn.org/board/images/smiles/rofl3.gif[/] ) and cannot, for the life of me, figure out the math that results in the 67%/33% figures that you suggest?? Would you be so kind as to post the details of the calculations that show how these percentages are derived?? Thanks. [/]

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#27977 - 11/15/04 08:24 AM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
petsugargliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1532
Loc: Andover, Ohio
You are right,
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I likewise did a Prunnett square for this second pairing and the result seems to be:

1 homozygous dominant(normal)
2 heterozygous(normal color but carries the recessive gene)
1 homozygous recessive(exhibits recessive trait)

That still works out to 50% hets, not 67%. Again, did I make a mistake??

I don't understand your figures.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

What some breeders are doing is eliminating the white glider or the one that exhibits the recessive trait, because it will be white at birth or show that trait, therefore if you have a glider of normal coloration or wild type, there are only 3 more possibilities. 67% chance of being a het, 33% chance of not. At least that is the way I understood it to be. I could be wrong......LOL and it wouldn't be a first time. I guess it is all on how you look at it.
_________________________
Jennifer Chandler
Owned by sugar gliders for over 14 years
Pet Sugar Gliders

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#27978 - 11/16/04 01:46 AM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"blue"] Thanks, Jennifer!! I actually was thinking along those same lines after doing all of the P-squares; but wasn't sure if that explanation was correct.

Two problems though. Eliminating the animal that expresses the recessive gene(white in this case) will explain the term "67% glider"; but I still don't see how they come up with the "33% glider" term?? Also, it's fine to use the term to describe an existing animal when you know what color it is; but most questions on GC ask about the potential breeding outcome of a particular pairing and using those percentages to predict breeding outcomes will, if I am correct, result in inaccurate predictions, although I need to do a little more work to confirm that supposition.

Still would like someone to clarify the "33% het" term for me. Thanks. [/]

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#27979 - 11/17/04 02:41 AM Re: what is het and Leucistic and WFB? [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Going to try and do this one more time and see if we all can understand this.

Heterozygous has two different genes for a given trait. Such an animal with one recessive gene looks wild type.

Now a heterozygous animal with one(co)dominant gene looks different than a wild type due to that gene.

Leucistic when bred to a wild type...offspring is wild type colored.

Leucistic when bred to a White Face Blonde...some are wild type in coloration and some will be White Face Blonde. The White Face Blonde carries the wild type gene and I beleive a Co-dominant/diluted gene that causes some of the leucistic hets to be White Faced. It is going to take quite a bit of breeding to prove this theory but I am working on it.

50% Possible Het...Heterozygous breed to a wild type. 50% of the offspring should be hets but not called so till proven.

66% Possible Het....from breeding two animals that are heterozygous for the same gene. Not called a het till proven.

25% will be homozygous
50% will be heterozygous
25% will be wild type

Two out of every three of the normal looking babies are Heterozygous(66%)

As to the 33% thing...I do not know where this number comes from. Will have to do more research but too tired this morning.


Edited by Judie (11/17/04 02:59 AM)

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#27980 - 11/17/04 08:16 AM Re: What Is A Het, A Leucistic and A WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"blue"] Well, it does look like we are all pretty much on the same page now!! Thank God!! This stuff was driving be crazy.

I would like to make one minor correction. [/]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
.....Two out of every three of the normal looking babies are Heterozygous(66%).....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
[:"blue"] Nit picking, I know; but actually 67%. [/]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
.....As to the 33% thing...I do not know where this number comes from.....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
[:"blue"] I haven't been able to figure that out either? Maybe Chris will see this post and clarify since he was the one who first mentioned this description??

I'm going to have to think about the comment on pairing a Leucistic and a WFB. There are some allele pairings where co-dominance or incomplete dominance are exhibited and I am still trying to understand the implications of those pairings. [/]

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#27981 - 11/18/04 01:23 PM Re: What Is A Het, A Leucistic and A WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Here is how I come up with 67% possible het. That is that there is a 67% chance that the joey is a 100% het. Out of het mating for example Dd x Dd.

Will produce:

DD
dD
Dd
dd

Of those 4 dd can immediatly be identified. So you have three genes, Dd, dD, and DD Of those genes only two Dd and dD carry the recessive gene. That is 2 out of 3. 2/3 is .6666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666...ect...7 So I round it up to .67 and ultipling that by 100 gives, 67%. It is easier to use whole numbers I could have very well said 66.1/6% which would essentially mean 66.666...ect but that would not be understood by all. So that is how I arrive at 67%. If that trait cannot be distinguished as a homozygous recessive then that cannot be used but coat colors such as leucistic and WFB can.

Ushuaia

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#27982 - 11/18/04 04:07 PM Re: What Is A Het, A Leucistic and A WFB? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"blue"] OK, Chris. I get the 67% thing. Thanks.

What about the 33% het? Haven't figured that one out yet. [/]

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