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#28506 - 11/01/04 08:51 PM Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Well, today Riker's nose turned a burgundy red, so I took him back to the vet. We took an Xray and found out that what is going on with his lungs/nose is drainage from an infection in his upper jaw that is in the bone over his upper teeth. (His teeth looked fantastic, BTW, talk about pearly whites! No damage, discoloration, anything-and no loose teeth). But you could see the redness/inflammation in the gums from the infection. He is now on a much larger dose of Baytril to try and clear the infection, and will have another Xray and follow up in 2 weeks. I talked the vet into loaning me the Xray, and have pics for you all to see. The infected area is in the right side. Basically, this is lumpy jaw-though he's never had hard food and only a very occasional peanut half or cheerio (NOT any more-EVER!) So it's a watch and wait game and hope the meds work. vet said the deep red nose was due to so much blood going into his face trying to fight this. He has no visible swelling on the outside.

Anyway, posting Pic-1 of 3-full Xray.


Attachments
296277-RikerXray01.jpg (74 downloads)

_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#28507 - 11/01/04 08:53 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Pic 2 of 3 with focus on head..


Attachments
296279-RikerXray2.jpg (59 downloads)

_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#28508 - 11/01/04 08:56 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Last pic-focus on head with problem area contrasted with normal area.


Attachments
296280-CopyofRikerXray2.bmp (55 downloads)

_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#28509 - 11/01/04 09:05 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Poor guy. Has the vet done a C&S from the fluids from his nose and mouth?

By the way, the x-rays were the best I have ever seen of a glider. Sure can tell where the nasty infection is.


Edited by Judie (11/01/04 09:08 PM)
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#28510 - 11/01/04 09:08 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Poor sweet baby! How long does he think he'll need to be on the Baytril treatment for this condition! Does he know what may have caused it? Thanks so much for taking the trouble to share the pictures! Lot's of kisses to Riker!

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#28511 - 11/01/04 09:10 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I'll have to call tomorrow and ask. I was so shocked by what showed up, I forgot to ask him. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> -he's been on baytril since Saturday, so I don't know if they can get anything from one now, but I'll make it a point to ask.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#28513 - 11/01/04 09:34 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I guess I didn't word that very well. What I meant was, I did say I wanted one (a c&s of the nasal fluid), but forgot to ask whether he took the sample to do one (he was going to do that and a urine test when they put him under for the Xray-since Riker would give us a stool sample Sat, but no urine). I realize that that is NOT what came out in the above post-sorry. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohwell.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#28514 - 11/01/04 10:05 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Jen, I'm sorry to hear about Riker, but I'm glad you brought the topic of lumpy jaw up. Lumpy jaw can be caused by a scratch on the gums thus allowing bacteria/fungus to enter and cause the infection, but hard food is not the only way that can happen. I was talking to a friend recently about this and she was telling me that two of her breeder's gliders fought and that one of them got scratched in the gum... one week later he had lumpy jaw. It could also happen from chewing on something. I suspect there are many other causes also.

Here's something I discovered when I was researching jaundice (Jaw, Lumpy is right before jaundice) "Fungal disease affecting the jaw, brain, lungs, and gastrointestional tract. Common in cattle and sometimes affects humans. SYN. actinomycosis" (Taber's Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary)

Dr. Welle (on WSGN) states that "“Lumpy jaw” is the common name for mandibular abscesses. These are pockets of pus and infection along the jaw bone. There are lots of contributing factors involved in the development of lumpy jaw. Sometimes the problem begins with a puncture wound from a food item. More commonly, infections of the tooth roots are involved. This often occurs due to weakness of the bone or periodontal ligaments, resulting from diets too low in calcium or other nutrients. In addition, lack of “work” for the jaws can result in a weakening of the bone. Diagnosis is based on a physical exam and skull x-rays. Sometimes the veterinarian may suction some material from one of the lumps with a needle and syringe and examine this material under the microscope or send it for a culture. Treatment involves antibiotic therapy, surgical drainage of the lumps, removal of infected teeth, and sometimes additional therapies."

I think its wise to expand our concept of what can cause lumpy jaw. As you attest, hard food couldn't have been the cause of Riker's illness. That means something else (unfortunately you may never find out exactly what it was) probably caused the infection. However, its equally wise not to automatically say that a glider gets lumpy jaw from a poor diet, or a soft food diet.

Jen, I know for you this probably raises more questions than answers. Hopefully, you'll be able to figure out the trigger.

~Lynn

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#28515 - 11/01/04 10:11 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


This raises a question for me. I have manzanita branches in my cages. My gliders love them & chew on them all the time. Even my new ones that I've only had since this morning have been knawing on them. Can these branches scratch their gums and cause lumpy jaw? I was under the impression that they needed the branches, are they actually a safety hazard?

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#28516 - 11/01/04 10:28 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I do think that the opportunity to chew is important. I personally keep apple branches in our cages, and our gliders do chew on them. I think almost anything could be called a safety hazard. But, if you notice Dr. Welle's article, he stated that scratches to the gums was only one way the bacteria could get in. My personal opinion is that we don't know for sure what causes lumpy jaw. What we do know for sure is that it is very serious for a glider to get and requires antibiotics.

~Lynn

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#28517 - 11/01/04 11:21 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


One way of a Jaw Infection is a uncoated wire cags, like Galvanized are Aluminum.

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#28518 - 11/01/04 11:41 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3058
Loc: u.s.a.
you can always have your vet call my vet dr dan at 919 8449166 if the baytril doesnt work maybe what he gave for my glider when she had pnumonia and bacterial infection will it was in shot form give 2 times daily 1 1/2 cc sterile saline sq, amakacin 4mg/kg and reg. penicillin 30,000iu/kg for 3 wks i think it was devided into weight of glider. he told me this was a cocktail he used in vet school on rabbits that were ill but it worked. he told me it will kill any type bacteria. its a powerful antibiotic and the sterile saline protects the kidneys from the amakacin. but on ruby her bacteria was resistant to the baytril which she was on 3 wks.

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#28519 - 11/02/04 11:19 AM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
ZacksMom, thanks for your information. I think what you posted is very valuable. I am not a big believer in pelleted food = lumpy jaw, and that is commonly the leap people make in talking about lumpy jaw. Apart from one incident and a plethora of posts, I've never seen evidence that pelleted food has any connection to lumpy jaw at all. It could, but I think if it were that common, there would be many, many more posts about this fairly rare condition.

Jenn, I'm glad you found out what the problem was. How did you discover the cause? Was there a readily apparent swollen jaw? Thanks, too, for the magnificent xrays.

And thanks for letting us experience this with you. I know I can learn a lot in this thread. Please keep us posted, and know lots of prayers are being said for the Commander.
_________________________


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#28520 - 11/02/04 01:50 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Lucy, Riker's nose was really red yesterday. The only colors I can think of that come close are burgundy or maroon. This was after 2 days on the antibiotics. It had been a little darker than normal Saturday when he first went, but nothing like this. I guess Dr. Emch had briefly said something about the unusual color then (my husband took him Sat.-I had to work-'course my husband didn't mention that until last night!) I took him to our regular vet-Dr. Orr, described the symptoms, said that Dr Emch-our nighttime/weekend vet could hear something in one lung, but it didn't sound bad. Dr Orr looked at his nose and said that the color looked more like something vascular (blood flow) was going on as opposed to respiratory because of the color, and the fact he was breathing okay, and asked if he could take an Xray. His lungs look excellent on the film, but the upper jaw didn't. He put him under briefly again, to get a good look at his mouth and teeth from the inside. (I got to help, and he showed me what he was looking at). You could see some discoloration/inflammation way up in the gums beneath where the problem showed on the Xray (darker red on the gums in that area). He has no visible swelling on his face, he's as cute as ever-I guess most of it is up in the jawbone/sinus which is why it's causing the drainage the way it is.
>> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />The one thing that made me smile during all of this, was that the second time he went under for the mouth exam, he played like he was out cold, then as soon as the tech removed the mask jumped up and tried to bite her! I even thought he was asleep-he was playing possum! Poor little guy, he really doesn't like vets at all, and he's had to see them more than any of my others.
And no, I don't think probably his diet had anything to do with it, but won't rule it out entirely. He has no cagemate (yet) , and safe toys. I'll probably never know where it came from, and it looks like it may have been developing for several months. I'm just glad I was able to find out so we can treat it, and to be able to share the pics and what is happening. Honestly I wouldn't have thought that a runny nose was a sign of an infected jaw without a swollen face.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#28521 - 11/02/04 01:54 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
On another thought, we're wondering if the overgrooming he developed the last several months might be connected. We've increased his attention, etc. and it's gotten worse. The most overgroomed area is right over the bad place on the Xray. It's gotta hurt in there. I suppose if I had a chronic headache I might pull my hair out, too. Curious to see if the antibiotics will help two problems.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#28522 - 11/02/04 06:35 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Jen...im sorry to hear about your boy. But its great news to hear you caught it so early, im sure there will be a quick turn around! The story of him playing possum made me laugh so hard, so funny the things they do!

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#28523 - 11/03/04 03:35 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Well, I got ahold of the vet. He didn't get the samples. Apparently Riker wouldn't cooperate even under anesthesia. So I'm going to take him back in the morning and they'll try and get a sample of the nasal drainage. His nose isn't as deep a red as it was, but still much redder than normal, and there's about the same amount of drainage as far as I can tell-it isn't all the time, but when he sneezes or grooms he ends up with a trickle out one nostril. His energy level is down a bit, but not as bad as over the weekend-he actually wanted to run around on the couch a bit last night, and came out of his pouch under his own power to do it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Over the weekend and Monday (I know Mon. was partly due to having been put under twice) he really didn't want to come out of his pouch-just wanted to stay there with me for pets and reassurance. He's eating well, too-being hand fed to make sure of that! So hopefully we'll get enough tomorrow to culture-keep your fingers crossed. I'm hoping since the red is down some the antibiotics are working to a degree, and he's showing more interest in toys than he has in awhile. It's obvious he isn't feeling well, though. His grooming sneezes start out with the normal TSH- and end in -SQUEAK <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I feel so bad for him. I'll let everyone know what happens tomorrow.
-Oh, and my tubby little guy weighed in at a big 159 grams! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


Edited by Xfilefan (11/03/04 03:38 PM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#28524 - 11/03/04 04:23 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Riker is such a fighter and a trooper! He will pull through! My thoughts and prayers go out to you all. Keep us updated on how Riker is doing. Keep up the great work!


Jennifer

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#28525 - 11/03/04 06:18 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3058
Loc: u.s.a.
please call dr. dan at 919 844 9166 he is very good hes an exotic vet only and saved my glider who was gasping for air when she had pnumonia 2 yrs ago plus bacteria infection we force fed her bml and yogurt juice and he gave her a shot of the 3 drugs i e mailed you in an earilier post when she became resistant to the baytril. the shot of antibiotics is better as it goes directly into their bloodstream. call him first thing in the morning and tell him about the glider he saved that is owned by karen i e mailed him the x rays you posted. he e mailed me back and said it looks like lumpy jaw. my girl is also big 185 grams

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#28526 - 11/04/04 01:11 AM Thoughts about Cmdr Riker's Infection [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


From the x-ray it is difficult to tell, but it appears that there may be bony involvement. An infection in the bony (osteomyelitis) is an entirely different problem than soft tissue infection. In humans, we would open and debride (remove) infected bone. We also often need to give IV antibiotics, and later convert to oral meds for a couple of months. This can be difficult to clear up, and may account for why some have had "lumpy jaw" recur several times. I've seen some patients never clear up from osteomyelitis.

Which germs to cover can be a problem. As noted above, actinomycosis can be the culprit. Taber's is kind of old, as it insinuates that it is fungal. Actinomycosis, despite its name, is not fungal. It is a gram (+) anaerobic bacillus with branching hyphae (like fungi) that used to confuse. It tends to live in the mouth, and gain entrance with trauma or tooth infections. It often causes an enlarging painless swelling over the jaw bone. The overlying skin becomes tense and develops a red or purple hue. Actinomycosis may not respond to Baytril or antibiotics if the infected tissue is not surgically removed.

There can be resistant organisms, and without a wound culture or bone biopsy it is a shot in the dark if you have coverage. Although Baytril is pretty wide spectrum, this class of meds (fluoroquinolones) can have resistance develop rapidly.

The combo of penicillin and Amikacin noted above is broader spectrum. Pen is pretty good at gram (+) bugs, and Amikacin at gram (-) germs. Neither is great at anaerobic germs, and obviously fungi. These days there are more and more resistances to Penicillin among the gram (+) bugs. This combo is also harder to administer with several shots a day. We use a very similar combo for sick newborns.

For germs resistant to Baytril, I wonder if any veterinarian has ever tried chloramphenicol on a glider. We used to use it on children 20 years ago all the time. Since it is broad spectrum, can be given orally, and not used much lately to minimize resistance, it could be interesting. The toxicities of this drug are unique, but it could be something to consider if other meds fail.

Sinus infections can be stinkers to clear sometimes. They are pretty walled off, almost an abscess of a sort. Good drainage is imperative. Longer courses of treatment may be warranted for resistant sinus infections as well.

I read many posts from owners trying to track down where an infection came from. Sometimes the normal germ milieu just gets in a bad place. No particular identifiable cause, it just is.

Wouldn't pelleted or solid food clean teeth much like wood-chewing and exoskeletons in bugs supposedly do? (unproven, often reported). I know the nutritional content may not be the greatest, but when brushing or flossing is not always possible...

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#28527 - 11/04/04 01:42 AM Re: Thoughts about Cmdr Riker's Infection [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Schlep, the bone IS involved, as stated in first post. It seems to have been developing for quite a while. As to which antibiotic, that is why I am going for a sample tomorrow, to see if something can be cultured and isolated, and targeted, but Baytril is a start until we can determine exactly what we are dealing with. He will also have another Xray done in 2 weeks to see where we're at, in additon to observing symptoms. I won't stop until it's gone and then some-Riker is my special baby and I will NOT lose him if there's anything at all I can do about it. I'm at nearly $300 in vet bills on this now, and it doesn't matter to me how much more it may cost. This little guy (and all my gliders) are more important to me than anything. I will take a copy of your post in the morning, and see what the vet thinks-and thank you for the imput. I'm also wondering if this might be part of the cause of his overgrooming in that area-I can't imagine a months long headache-a week long migraine drives me crazy. If you look at the focused pic with enhancement (#3) it isn't difficult to see that the bones on one side definitely do not match the normal structure on the other, which is why we know this isn't really new-just bad enough now to cause noticeable problems. It's also probably why there was no facial swelling-because it's in the bone and not soft tissue, though it's now noticeable in his gums on that side. Thank you again for the suggestions, and I will ask the vet.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#28528 - 11/04/04 01:50 AM Re: Thoughts about Cmdr Riker's Infection [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


So sorry to hear about Riker. I think I'd be rubbing my head excessively too if I had a months long headache. My thoughts go out to you and Riker. Hopefully the vet can get things straightened out. Keep the updates coming in. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

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#28529 - 11/04/04 07:28 PM Re: Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection [Re: ]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3058
Loc: u.s.a.
im glad to see your not going to give up on riker. i didnt either when ruby was sick she cost me 1500 dollars in vet bills never giver up. it took over a month for my girl to get well i think it took a couple of months. i also had to admininister the shot daily for 3 wks. i hated to do it but had to. and before that whe was 3 wks on baytril. it can take time but their worth it. if u have to make riker eat bml. ruby was force fed bml only for 3 wks too . she's still on it 2 yrs later. but still like to only eat it from my hands but most inmportant if u do that wash your hands very well first.

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#28530 - 11/05/04 03:24 PM Re: Thoughts about Cmdr Riker's Infection [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


When you talk to your veterinarian, another med I have wondered about using but not read much about on GliderCENTRAL is Clindamycin (Cleocin, and others). It is good at anaerobic bugs. I have used it for pesky sinus infections, resistant strep throat, oral flora bugs that have gone wild among other mouth and face infections. It is an oral suspension, and relatively cheap. It's also been around a long time. A long term treatment with this med is one that can truly alter gut flora, perhaps more than most antibiotics we use which really aren't all that hard on the gut. This one can cause colitis. But, it is a great drug, and if it has activity against what is causing the problem, it is well worth the risk and colitis can be watched for. I use clindamycin in children who got to appendectomy too late and it burst, as well as in face cream for zits. Nice item in the war chest on harmful micro-organisms.

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#28531 - 11/05/04 04:41 PM Re: Thoughts about Cmdr Riker's Infection [Re: ]
Carrie T Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/01
Posts: 4049
Loc: Doniphan Mo
Shlep, your insight and suggestions are wonderful. Jen, I'm really praying for a full recovery for your little guy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

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#28532 - 11/07/04 10:13 PM Re: Thoughts about Cmdr Riker's Infection [Re: ]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
Schlep, you are amazing, thank you for always taking the time to offer suggestions too <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Update time Jen!
(for the newer members, if you go back and search some of Xfilefan's post, you can get an idea just what this lil guy has been through joeyhood. He is one tough glider for sure.)

Karin
_________________________
Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"

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#28533 - 11/07/04 11:23 PM Re: Thoughts about Cmdr Riker's Infection [Re: ]
Sheila Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/05/00
Posts: 5363
Loc: Ok
Jen, may I suggest Clavamox. I have had two gliders with abcesses on the jaw and with the first one had it drained 7 times, three teeth pulled and was on Baytril for 5 months. After three cultures, we decided to swith antibiotics from Baytril to Clavamox. In three days it was completely cleared and never came back again. My vet told me that her next glider that had this, she just perscribed the Clavamox right away and it took care of it. My second glider that got this didn't have it as bad, but ran a fever with the scratch. I had some baytril on hand and tried it for two days over the weekend. I called the vet on Monday morning and told her I needed some more Clavamox. I started her on it and within three days she was fine. I am just suggesting this even though it is not exactly your situation because it was effective with the infection in the jaw.
_________________________
ToandFro Gliders

http://www.toandfrogliders.com

USDA Licensed breeder for 12 years and counting!

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#28534 - 11/08/04 01:59 AM Re: Thoughts about Cmdr Riker's Infection [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
As frustrating as this is, there isn't a whole lot to update on. I took him to the vet-he stayed there all day. Stubborn little dude. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> When we left, he'd been grooming and had the trickle out his nose and down his face I was hoping the vet could get a sample of. Of course, by the time we got there, his nose was moist still, but he (Riker) knew we were there. He dried up like someone turned off a faucet <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohwell.gif" alt="" />. No urine. No nasal drainage. They finally put him under again to try for something from his sinus. Dry nose, mouth, everything. So I have a sterile sample swab/container to attempt one and rush in when I get it (only with our horrible labs here, who more than one vet has told me that even with an excellent sample teeming with bacteria, if they send it in on the weekend it comes back inconclusive or negative <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />-they're guessing due to poor handling and/or storage-sometimes I really hate this state!). So my best shot is for Monday or Tuesday and get it down and send it to the lab. I've paid in advance for the tests to be run. 2 hours after we get home that night from the vet's-there's the drainage trickle down the face again!
His energy levels are up and down, don't know how much is due to stress and meds, and how much possibly to the infection, but not any worse. His nose goes from a deeper red (not as bad as when this started, but still way too red, to a more normal pink, and back again periodically-it was really red all the time. I know a battle is going on in there. He's now been on Baytril since 10/30, the higher dose (.1 cc, 2Xdaily) since 11/1. I will suggest the clavamox next (thank you Sheila), since though there is some progress, we're clearly not out of the woods on this. Poor little guy has crabbed at me twice when I went to get him out of his pouch (not for meds those times) and tries to hide ( Pleeeease no more yucky meds, Mom!!! ), I started giving him his meds mixed with 1/8 tsp. vanilla milkshake. It still has to go down the hard way, but not so hard to get him to swallow it, then a licky after to wash it down. He's so good about it, though! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> Tries to hide and turn his head, but no crabbing or even an attempt to bite-just this hurt, sad look that breaks my heart <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/upset.gif" alt="" />. He hasn't crabbed at me since he was 12 weeks old! His appetite is still good. I know we have a ways to go with this. He'll be re Xrayed on his follow-up next week. I'll exchange Xrays with the vet, and let you see what we see then. I imagine because it's inside the bone, this won't be an easy or quick fix any way we look at it. As to the clavamox-what sort of side effects are common with that one? I haven't used it before.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#28535 - 11/08/04 08:17 AM Re: Thoughts about Cmdr Riker's Infection [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


My vet in DALLAS TEXAS may be able to help with information to your vet,are to you, that may help you .Dr.Effie Glannopoulos www.cityvet.com they see 100 of glider a week.

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#28536 - 11/08/04 09:59 AM Re: Thoughts about Cmdr Riker's Infection [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


When Ozzy was sick he was put on Clavamox. He reacted very badly to it -- throwing up all food, his jaundice became much, much worse, his energy level dropped, etc. However, I hope people don't jump to the conclusion that this is a bad medicine for gliders. Ozzy was already VERY ill (a week before he died), so the Clavamox could have just been the wrong antibiotic given how ill he already was.

~Lynn

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