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#293401 - 05/21/07 08:44 PM Aflatoxin in SG Cereal
Holly1221 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 2321
Loc: Maryland
after reading Laura's post i'm worried that i feed the Sugar Glider Cereal from Priscilla's diet, which might have something similar. is there something we can do to make sure it's not in our gliders cereal ? other than not feeding it, that is ?
_________________________
Holly & Jeff heart
Misos Phoenix Keegan Knuckles // Asa Etienne Kyrian // Cheyenne Peyton Godiva

RIP my sweet gangel babies, mommy loves you!

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#293409 - 05/21/07 08:48 PM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: Holly1221]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
We're not sure yet if it came from there, from the monkey biscuits, or the mealworm bedding. Wait until the results of the tests are back before you panic. But no, there isn't a way to tell other than making sure you have a trusted source (still some risk) or not using it, unfortunately. It's not like mold you can see growing on bread and know it's bad-it takes only a few spores inside a grain to cause illness. It can't be killed by cooking or freezing.

Dried grains, soy, cornmeal, bugs housed in contaminated bedding...there is a very long list of possibilities. Most aren't aware of it, but small amounts are frequently found in our own food. Because we are so much bigger, it rarely causes sickness unless the person has a large enough dose.


Edited by Xfilefan (05/21/07 08:51 PM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#293420 - 05/21/07 08:59 PM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: Xfilefan]
myangelbear77 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 2258
Loc: Homestead, FL
So heres a question..if we have mealworms and we freeze their bedding before putting them in it and then make sure they have been around for a certain amount of time (can anyone say how long?) would it be safer? Also could we freeze the biscuits and cereal to be safe or would it matter?
_________________________
Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.


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#293423 - 05/21/07 09:01 PM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: myangelbear77]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I recently did a search on aspergillus mold as my dog is highly allergic to it. Basically, aspergillus is in the environment no matter what you do so freezing would not help. The only thing is to make the environment unfriendly for the mold to grow in (dry).


Edited by Jen_S (05/21/07 09:02 PM)

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#293429 - 05/21/07 09:06 PM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: ]
myangelbear77 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 2258
Loc: Homestead, FL
Dry..that is impossible! This is Florida people! (Okay where I am at least it is) My father and I are having a very hard time convincing my step mother that buying large bags of dog food and storing them in a non air controlled environment is possibly and most likely what has made her dog ill )she thinks its just old age an we disagree)...Any suggestions?
_________________________
Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.


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#293431 - 05/21/07 09:08 PM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: myangelbear77]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Maybe try a dehumidifier in the kitchen??? Available at the hardware store. I would say airtight containers or better yet vaccuum sealing things in the fridge (other than meal worms).

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#293446 - 05/21/07 09:17 PM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Problem is, dry will only make it dormant, not kill it. As soon as it's refrigerated, or in the gut...ie you just added moisture-there it is. DRIED grains, corn etc., is it's preferred host...there really isn't much if any moisture to speak of. It's when it sits in the silos to dry after harvest that it grows, and there's no way to prevent it other than to grow, harvest, and store your own under carefully controlled conditions.

Edit to add that dormant means it's not releasing spores into the air (ie with allergies), but if you eat it, it's not going to help.


Edited by Xfilefan (05/21/07 09:18 PM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#293454 - 05/21/07 09:22 PM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: Xfilefan]
Holly1221 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 2321
Loc: Maryland
until i know further, since i feed Priscilla's diet, Misos won't be getting either the monkey biscuits or the sg cereal. i can't take away the mealies can i ? he is on the large size(168 grams).... so i have to cut down on them.
_________________________
Holly & Jeff heart
Misos Phoenix Keegan Knuckles // Asa Etienne Kyrian // Cheyenne Peyton Godiva

RIP my sweet gangel babies, mommy loves you!

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#293462 - 05/21/07 09:31 PM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: Holly1221]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey guys... I just wanted to drop by and let you know that i posted the (preliminary) cause... I don't want to go through it again, but it is in my thread... Thank you all for your support and concerns.

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#293472 - 05/21/07 09:43 PM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Here's the quote from the other thread, so the Question is answered here as well:

Quote:
Preliminary results showed level 4 traces of aflatoxin in the pellets(level 20 will kill a cow). The pellets i had were called Premium Sugar Glider diet (or Sugar Glider Cereal) and manufactured by Briskys. I am not sure where the pellets became infected with aflatoxin. It could have been at the manufacturer, the packaging company, the distributor, at my home, or in transit from one place to another. We don't know, and I WILL NOT place blame on anyone for this. I had them stored in the fridge, and have been feeding them since i got them. I am posting this to help anyone else that may be experiencing problems with these pellets, not to bash anyone.


Thank you for the information, Laura hug2
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#293494 - 05/21/07 10:05 PM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: Xfilefan]
Mel2mdl Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 4212
Loc: Garland, TX
So - any suggestions on keeping these out of our suggies systems? I don't feed crickets, but now I am worried about mealworms too. (I know it wasn't in the worms, but it could be!)

Any practical suggestions on avoiding this? IT SCARES ME!
_________________________
Molly, son & husband:

Chairman Meow
Oscar & Thomas
Sam, Diego, Delilah, Delia :wfb:
Nevada, Noel
Marcel, Dakota, Latte
Dexter, Didi, Almond, Joy and Fitz
:grey:
Karl,Lenny,Jynxie,Chamille, Kee & Mr. Beans in my heart forever.
Teaching teenagers-part joy, part guerilla warfare! :rbridge:

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#293501 - 05/21/07 10:14 PM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: Mel2mdl]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The best suggestion that has been made is do not feed any dry foods or bugs... The meal worms can get a number of fungi from mealworms as well as aflatoxin. Its not just in crickets. Its not as common in mealworms, but still a very real threat

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#293600 - 05/22/07 01:25 AM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Keep in mind, once infected, it can not be cured to our knowledge, it can be slowed down. the initial test was done on all of the food stuffs she took into the vet, it was the cereal that it was found in, repackaged from "premium sugar glider diet"

there is no blame to be put anywhere, however; the risks are very high at this time, we were told years ago that you could use a black light to determine if a product is infected, any glow coming from the food at all, will require further testing, the methods the vet used was a quick aflatoxin test, from a milling plant, which they had to test foods, after the dog food contamination. and the cereal did test positive. they are also doing a full necropsy on Jorn, to find out more. As well as many other tests.

Keep in mind, that as she stated, there is no way to tell exactly where the product got infected at, the biggest concerns of lauras right now is several things..
1. That she can help Lilly with her repercussions of this.
2. that she doesn't lose any more gliders and to do her best to help her gliders continue their lives
3. she stored hers in the refrigerator, so if it was caused by that, then there is a concern for others who also may be storing it the same way.
4. that if it came from the original distributer, the number of gliders that also could be infected.

the kicker is , with the aflatoxin, there is no way to tell when it actually entered their system, or how many organs are affected.

The symptoms of aflatoxin is not posted, because it can have many. sometimes none at all, sometimes siezures, sometimes spasms.

please read the links that are posted in the original thread, and familiarize yourself with it.

As for mealworms, one of the flares for us, was that she had put moist fruit in with the farms, and although the fruit was gone, the juices had seeped though to the bran. but the mealie farm did not test positive for it.

Everyone is asking how to prevent this, this is not the first time, it has struck through a commercial dealer.

educating the manufacturers with ways to test their ingredients, and coming up with a standard for the storage.

for many years some have said on their package to store in a cool dry place, this is something that should be more specific. some say to refrigerate, there should also be a shelf life posted on the packages with expiration dates also placed on repackaged goods.


_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#293645 - 05/22/07 04:34 AM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: Bourbon]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
According to the government sites, the black light testing is almost worthless as it can show aflotoxins when indeed there are none and may not show anything when there actually is. All of this is so confusing. frown

I have a question that is haunting me now. Since it attaches to the DNA and never leaves (such as crickets, mealworms, etc.), what about the suggies that have offspring before finding out they had aflatoxins? Does it bind to the joeys DNA and keep passing down the line? Could this be a reason for suggies seemingly having liver disorders among other things when they have come from a reputable breeder and were always on a proven diet?


I went to Brisky's site and they say to keep the food in a cool place such as a refrigerator. I noticed on the label online it shows Aspirillus (sp?) in the ingredients among other things we question now too. It struck me as very odd to see that as an ingredient.

I am praying for Lily.
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#293651 - 05/22/07 05:40 AM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: SugarBlossoms]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't believe aflatoxins will bind with glider DNA. Crickets are a host species, and something about them is right for that bond. It will eventually kill them as well, but they can pass it on. OK, so I'm totally trying to pull that from memory--I'd suggest looking for a recent post on crickets and aflatoxins. Bourbon linked several old posts that went into detail on this subject.

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#293670 - 05/22/07 06:59 AM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: ]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
We need a clarification on whether the pellets are from Brisky's or exotic nutrition. If they are the one's pricilla uses then they are from exotic nutrition. I think Pricilla and EN need to know if that is the case. Many people use Pricilla's diet.
_________________________
Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:

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#293685 - 05/22/07 08:06 AM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: Gossamer]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Aflatoxins attack the liver in suggies. It is not believed to get passed on to the joeys at this point.

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#294191 - 05/22/07 04:23 PM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
there are some people that are working on getting more info on the labels, regarding storage, expiration dates, and lot numbers, I understand someone is contacting exotic nutrition to address these issues..

could it have been storage?? yes, as the refrigerator allows the spores to grow, and mold does grow in the fridge. now the question is, how should this be stored? how long can it be kept in the fridge, how old is the food? at this time, there are no definite answers to these questions.

could it have been an infected batch? yes of course from the original distributer of the ingredients itself

could it have happened at each drop off spot, yes, mold can start and spore any place.

could it have happened during shipping? yes again it could,

everyone is waiting for the necropsy results to come back, however it won't really tell us any more than we already know.

Aflatoxin depending on the amount of mold hidden and how much is actually consumed, makes a difference on how soon it shows up, also gliders with a higher metabolism, may push it through their system quicker.

we can not say whether this happened 2 months ago, or 2 days ago.. there is no way to tell, but the fact is, once it hits the system, organs get destroyed as it passes through. depending on how much damage is done is also going to determine the symptoms.

my suggestion is to take your food into the vet, let them know what is going on, see if they have the test to test it for you using a quick aflatoxin test.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#294513 - 05/22/07 09:09 PM Re: Aflatoxin in SG Cereal [Re: Bourbon]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I want to make it clear right here and now that I am NOT saying that the pellets DID become infected at the manufacturer or the distributor. It very well could have happened in my refrigerator or on its way here. We don't know. I am not asking anyone to take responsibilty for the deaths of my gliders nor will i blame anyone for this.

The main issue here now is that there is no standardization for times like this. There is no way to track the bag of pellets that I got, or anyone who may have gotten pellets from the same bag/lot to warn them of the possibility of their gliders being infected.

The glider community will be working together to get this changed. I am doing research on the aflatoxin testing, and others are working on getting the packaging changed to protect our babies in the future.

This standardization is offered for our dogs and cats, even reptile and bird feeds. Why has it not been brought over to the glider community? It will be and we will make sure of that.

The test that Bourbon is talking about is the same test that they use on livestock feed. If your vet does large animals as well, they should have them on hand, if not, they may have them for all of the pet food recalls that has been going on. Mine had them for both reasons. I am doing more research to see if we can order them as individuals and do them ourselves as well

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