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#298166 - 05/26/07 02:55 AM Yogurt
Nataly Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 118
Loc: Russia, Moscow
1. What can possibly cause liver problems?
2. Some breeders say they can be caused by yoghurt (even low in fat); so, how often can I give youghurt to my gliders? I buy 0% fat, with additional calcium. I'd also be very grateful if anyone tells me whether such kind of yoghurt can be given to a mother glider with a baby in her pouch.
3. How can liver problems be detected? What are the sympthoms, save for jaundice?


Edited by sugarlope (07/06/08 12:38 PM)
Edit Reason: changed title ~sugarlope

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#298173 - 05/26/07 03:52 AM Re: Liver problems [Re: Nataly]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
yogurt does NOT cause liver problems, there are many things that can cause it. the liver is a filter for all toxins in the system, yogurt is not a toxin. in fact yogurt is very good for a gliders system, especially after meds, and when they are stressed or ill.

the yogurt should contain live cultures, those live cultures spore in the gut and promotes good bacterial growth in the gut, thus reducing the room available for the growth of bad bacteria,. when a glider takes meds, the meds will remove all bacteria, good and bad..the yogurt will help with the replenishing of the good bacteria that the guts needs.

modifying diets is by far the biggest risk for liver problems, in the "wanting to do the best thing" many owners will add foods that are higher in iron, or that aid in the absorption of iron, and thus taking healthy diets and making them unhealthy.

you have genetics, which also plays a very important role in liver issues as well. Liver storage problems seems to be popping up more and more on necropsies

aflatoxins and other molds, are also another very prevalent thing showing up on necropsies if the labs check for it, There is still far too many labs that don't check for it, and put down liver disease without the specifics of what caused it.

With the aflatoxins, a little bit can cause deaths a long time down the road, in aflatoxin, the fungus, shoots through their system like a missile, it does it's damage, and if in small amounts, it can continue to do damage long after the source causing the problem is removed.. the liver can slowly deteriorate until the liver is just too damaged to do it's job.

Pesticides, can be found on many fresh fruits and veggies, it is imperative that washing them completely to remove any residue. There is now a veggie and fruit wash, that can be purchased at walmarts in the produce area. there is also a link I think on how to clean them efficiently here at gc

as for symptoms, having regular blood tests is the only way to catch these things early, then treatment is the next problem.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#298182 - 05/26/07 04:24 AM Re: Liver problems [Re: Bourbon]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Just to add...make sure that whatever yogurt you choose has NO artificial sweetener, ie apartame, nutrasweet, etc. Gliders shouldn't have those. Only regular sugars, glucose, fructose. Sometimes the nonfat, and the Lite varieties contain artificial sweetener-be sure and read the label...and if in doubt-don't.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#298209 - 05/26/07 08:11 AM Re: Liver problems [Re: Bourbon]
Nataly Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 118
Loc: Russia, Moscow
Originally Posted By: Bourbon
in the "wanting to do the best thing" many owners will add foods that are higher in iron, or that aid in the absorption of iron, and thus taking healthy diets and making them unhealthy.

Could you please tell me, why additional iron in glider diets can cause problems?

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#298210 - 05/26/07 08:15 AM Re: Liver problems [Re: Nataly]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Iron is a heavy metal. We need small amounts, but too much and it builds in the body and becomes a poison (have you ever heard of lead poisoning? That is also a heavy metal toxicity). Also known as heavy metal toxicity, and a number of different heavy metals can cause similar problems. Because the liver is a filter for the body's toxins-that's where a lot of the excess tends to accumulate, though it's far from the only place affected.


Edited by Xfilefan (05/26/07 08:17 AM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#298233 - 05/26/07 09:08 AM Re: Liver problems [Re: Xfilefan]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think Bourbon was using additional iron as an example--with the liver involved, because it acts as a filter, additional anything can effect it. Are you suspecting you may have a glider with liver issues? If so, perhaps it would be best to describe symptoms, diet, etc. It might also help to go into detail about other aspects of their life, as well, such as housing and environment, as there are many other reasons gliders may be acting sick. When in doubt, nothing beats a vet visit, at the very least for peace of mind.

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#298277 - 05/26/07 10:45 AM Re: Liver problems [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just lost my first glider to liver cancer not long ago.. I am very concerned about it. I would like to see the documention on the diets. I have never seen it on any of them, nor has my vet. My vet is not sure if it could be diet releated or not, and not much has been done with research on diets and sugar gliders. I am not sure how the diet we are feeding was developed, and all the facts about it.
My vet is willing to do a diet study if funds are available in the future.
Angie

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#298288 - 05/26/07 11:08 AM Re: Liver problems [Re: ]
Nataly Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 118
Loc: Russia, Moscow
Thank you for your concern, aproductof, but - no, thank goodness, my gliders are OK. Actually, in Russia we have trouble with vets specializing in exotic animals, so it's better to have some information in advance - what should be avoided, what should be paid special attention to, and so on. This forum, to my mind, is a perfect resourse to figure things out thanks

Also, I have a question concerning sugar. Actually, I thought that fructose and glucose are better, and that sugar as it is should be avoided. Was I wrong?

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#298750 - 05/26/07 11:20 PM Re: Liver problems [Re: Bourbon]
Nataly Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 118
Loc: Russia, Moscow
Originally Posted By: Bourbon
modifying diets is by far the biggest risk for liver problems, in the "wanting to do the best thing" many owners will add foods that are higher in iron, or that aid in the absorption of iron, and thus taking healthy diets and making them unhealthy.

Bourbon, can you tell me, what foods aid in the absorption of iron? Just to be on the safe side; it is more or less easy to figure out, whether food is rich in iron, or not smile

Xfilefan, actually, iron is NOT a heavy metal, unlike lead or, say, litium. Yet, now that it was mentioned, I checked some human issues on the problem, and - yes, the excess of iron is as dangerous as its deficiency, and it's harder to cure. Thank you for the explanation.

Angie, I'm very sorry for your loss. I lost my elder glider due to liver cancer too, and his wife died of a heart attack a week later; as I understand, such things may happen if the gliders live all their lives together, but all the same it is terribly sad...

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#298838 - 05/27/07 02:22 AM Re: Liver problems [Re: Nataly]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Here is a great thread to read
http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=2&Number=49267


as you can see, we have been trying to address this issue for a long time.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#298864 - 05/27/07 06:35 AM Re: Liver problems [Re: Bourbon]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Actually, Iron IS a heavy metal-it has an atomic weight equal to or greater than 4.0. My Allied Medical dictionary, Webster's dictionary, and this link will all back that up. It's just not as commonly talked about as far as toxicity goes, because it is an important part of our diet-but only in SMALL amounts. A small child who gets into a bottle can die or have organ failure/damage from it, and that does happen. Here's the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metals

Go into the section called "Relationship to living organisms"


Edited by Xfilefan (05/27/07 06:36 AM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#298885 - 05/27/07 08:32 AM Re: Liver problems [Re: Xfilefan]
Anonymous
Unregistered


So, since my glider Fizzgig was on a birdseed/fruit diet and ate peanuts he is at risk for liver failure? I read that milk thistle helps with that. Can it be given to my little boy?

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#298940 - 05/27/07 10:51 AM Re: Liver problems [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Kaylakala,
I would check with your vet before giving it, just to be on the safe side.
Angie

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#298972 - 05/27/07 11:55 AM Re: Liver problems [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Milk thistle is a plant that is safe for gliders. If you are talking about grinding up a tablet or puncturing a capsule and giving to gliders, check the other ingredients in the tablet/capsule.

One of my vets recommends milk thistle no alcohol extract in very small quantities.

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