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#29821 - 11/18/04 02:16 PM Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've been dong a lot of reading about wild gliders & have been curious if this system could be duplicated in captive. I've read that in the wild they live in colonies of 7 adults and their offspring and that when the offspring reach the ages of 7-10 mos, they leave the colony. Unless an adult female dies, in which case she is replaced by a female offspring from the colony. If an adult male dies, he is replaced by an outsider. The alpha male has first pick from the females for breeding, then the other males are allowed to breed - though less frequently. Do you think, if allowed, they would duplicate this instictively in captive? Hoping for a good discussion here!

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#29822 - 11/18/04 03:09 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hmm, interesting post <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />. I would worry about the males fighting, though. In the wild, they have lots of room to explore and escape from a dangerous fight if need be. In a cage (no matter how large it is), they don't have any way to get away from a dangerous fight with another male. I think with that many gliders you would also have the same problem with females. I would even worry about feeding that many gliders. You would need a lot of feeding stations or the gliders that aren't alpha are going to get the short end of the stick.

I'm sure someone with more knowledge on colonies will come along and provide you with more/better information <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

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#29823 - 11/18/04 03:48 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I was thinking of a slightly modified colony. Maybe Smeagol being the alpha & neutering any other males. Still keeping with the 7 adult colony. Just a thought, I wanted to see if anyone had tried it or any theories anyone had.

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#29824 - 11/18/04 03:56 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've had several gliders in one cage before. Right now I have 3 intact males and 2 females housed together. They all get along great. They breed in turn and they've never fought. It all depends on the glider, but I do have some advice. You don't want any "dominant" gliders in a captive colony. Instead you want submissive gliders, that way they don't fight.

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#29825 - 11/18/04 03:58 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Interesting! Cool, keep 'em coming I want to hear more! Have you ever had problems with the females stealing eachothers babies or do they all help care for the young in the colony?

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#29826 - 11/18/04 04:15 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


How can you tell if they're submissive compared to your gliders, though? I would ideally love to do something similar (well, kind of- one neutered male, two females, and one in tact male) but I'd be too worried that we would have dominance issues.

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#29827 - 11/18/04 06:44 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I can't believe no one else has any insight to offer. Come on guys! Bump!

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#29828 - 11/19/04 12:15 AM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have 1 female with a joey in there right now. No joey stealing so far... These gliders are much more passive when it comes to other gliders. They don't go bounding up to new gliders (which usually starts a fight). Instead, they usually like to go up to new gliders and slowly check them out. There have been a couple little tiffs when introducing new gliders, but no real fights.

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#29829 - 11/19/04 12:35 AM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I have recently put all 6 of my gliders in one big cage. I have 2 neutered males, 1 10 week oop male (who will be getting neutered), 2 adult females and one 10 week oop female. I had no concerns about this arrangement as they have been together during play time (the 10 week oop are twins of two of the adults) without any fighting even before the males were neutered. They all sleep together in one pouch even though I have 4 pouches in the cage. I usually only have one feeding station but it is a 8 inch dish so there is plenty of room for each and all to get to the dish at the same time.
_________________________
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#29830 - 11/19/04 01:48 AM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Leyna, are any of your gliders related? If so, in what way?

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#29831 - 11/19/04 06:17 AM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16743
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Not that I am going to be much help. but a while back when I spoke with Frank (from trading spaces) he said that he had 13 gliders total...7 in one cage and 6 in another. All his males are neutered though...
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
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If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#29832 - 11/19/04 07:57 AM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have 2 males that are half brothers. They were from a trio and are about a week apart in age. Other than that, 1 male came from Cleveland, 1 female from Tenn, and the other female came from IL... They range in age from 1 year to 6 years...

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#29833 - 11/19/04 12:38 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


OK, I was wondering about relation because in the wild the females that die are replaced by offspring of the colony. I was curious because eventually all the females would somehow be related to to the alpha male leading to inbreeding. I suppose, though, in the wild, the alpha male would be challenged/killed and replaced by another alpha male over time.

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#29834 - 11/19/04 05:44 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I the wild, there is some inbreeding. It's part of nature...

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#29835 - 11/22/04 05:08 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi all <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I have 8 suggies in the same cage together... I bought them already living together... They are 6 females and 2 males... Its very rare to hear them fighting with eachother and when they do is usually related with "dinner". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I keep them in a very big cage... The only thing that i always tried to keep as a rule is to have only 1 sleeping nest for all of them... So that they dont start smaller colonies and keep the bonds between them.
Here's some pics of them:
[]http://pwp.netcabo.pt/ferrets/petos1a.jpg[/][]http://pwp.netcabo.pt/ferrets/petos2a.jpg[/] []http://pwp.netcabo.pt/ferrets/petos6a.jpg[/]

At Dinner time:
[]http://pwp.netcabo.pt/ferrets/petos10a.jpg[/][]http://pwp.netcabo.pt/ferrets/petos13a.jpg[/][]http://pwp.netcabo.pt/ferrets/petos14a.jpg[/][]http://pwp.netcabo.pt/ferrets/petos12a.jpg[/]

The nest box that they had during summer time... They have a warm hammock now:
[]http://pwp.netcabo.pt/ferrets/petos9a.jpg[/]

They aren't very shy as you can see <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
[]http://pwp.netcabo.pt/ferrets/petos11a.jpg[/][]http://pwp.netcabo.pt/ferrets/petos15a.jpg[/]

And this is their cage:
[]http://pwp.netcabo.pt/ferrets/petos3a.jpg[/]

I hope you like the pics of my "colony" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I still have 2 more couples but they live in separate cages <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/agree.gif" alt="" />
Warm regards,
Moya

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#29836 - 11/22/04 05:48 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Very cool! Are both males intact? If so, were there dominance issues and did the offspring stay in the colony? If so, did you have any problems with inbreeding? How about baby stealing amoungst the females? I need details!LOL!

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#29837 - 11/22/04 06:08 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Very cool! Are both males intact? If so, were there dominance issues and did the offspring stay in the colony? If so, did you have any problems with inbreeding? How about baby stealing amoungst the females? I need details!LOL!

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Hi Monster, thanks for your interest <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />
Well, i got them this last August, so i cant talk about inbreeding yet... Both males are intact and the same goes for the females... However, i saw several females with males in their pouches and then they were gone <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />
Actually, thats the main reason that made me come here... To ask about oppinions and advices... I would hate to separate this family, they really seem happy together... At the same time, breaks my heart that they are snacking the joeys... I am sure that i am feeding them well and the cage (i believe) is big enough...I am very careful with them.
I know that i'm doing something wrong... Or prefer to believe that than to have to separate them all... Because if i'm doing something wrong, maybe with the help of you guys i can make things right! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />

ta ta,
Moya

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#29838 - 11/22/04 06:10 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
remo Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 1191
Loc: San Antonio, Texas
Wow!

Thanks for sharing your pictures,
Dorothy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />, Bandit <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />, and Gypsy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Dorothy, Falk, and Prissy

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#29839 - 11/22/04 06:21 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well I wouldn seprate the family just get the males fixed. They are very beautful together. How big is your cage. They look they love to chow down lol:)

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#29840 - 11/22/04 06:46 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Well I wouldn seprate the family just get the males fixed. They are very beautful together. How big is your cage. They look they love to chow down lol:)

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Split's Mom,
If i wasn't living in the "third world for pets" i would consider that... But even here to spay a ferret is something still new... Not to mention that Portugal is the only country in Europe where ferrets are ilegal... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Even so, i dont want to take the risk of losing one of my suggies due to the fact that it wouldn't wake up again from the anesthesia.
I know there must another way to solve this... I just need to find that way <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Their cage is 180 cm tall, 50 cm deep and 70 cm wide... I'm sure i should have to convert this but i hope you are familiar with the metric system.
Ta, ta
Moya

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#29841 - 11/22/04 09:07 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16743
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Looks like your babies need some blankies to snuggle with!!

What kind of diet are you feeding them?
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#29842 - 11/22/04 10:26 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi All <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Srlb, now that is winter they have very nice hammocks that a friend of mine made for them, so they are warm and cozy... Also in the same room where i keep them, i have the fish tanks and the terrariums with reptiles so the room has a very nice temperature.
In summer, like you see in the pics, they had only that pvc box (that is actually a chin's bath dust wc)... Portugal is very hot in summer. I tried hay, little blankets and even paper kitchen paper... But in the end, i still had to clean and wash their nest everyday because they would make a mess anyways.

As for their diet... They eat a little of everything: fruits, veggies, fresh cheese, yogurts, canned baby food, fruit juices, eggs, chicken, duck, boiled rice, mealworms (zoophoba), dried crickets, some nuts, corn flakes and other cereals, they like boiled spaghetti, baby fish canned food, honey, crackers, honey cakes, iams for kittens, lori food mix powder... Uhhhh... Its a very long list... Portugal doesn't has any products specified for sugar gliders and its a very poor market in exotic pets... I might try to import some food specified for them from the USA, like i import to many of my other pets... But for the last 6 years their diet has been "my criativity and the internet reading" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Oh, very important... I make sure to check that the baby can food hasnt onions or garlic in the ingredients because it's toxic for suggies.
Ta ta,
Moya

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#29843 - 11/22/04 10:32 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't no how you do it . I can't even get my gliders cages by each other without them fighting each other. I have to keep all of my cages at least 6 inches apart and hope they don't manage to get anothers tail. If you can get more than 1 intact male in the same cage with females then I wish you all the luck in the world.

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#29844 - 11/22/04 10:48 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dawnie,
That was the main reason that made me get this 8 suggies group... The fact that they were all together without any problems and getting along as you see in the pics.
I was amazed at the same reason that you are because i know that its a fact that suggies are territorial even females.
The truth is that i got them in August and till now i haven't seen the slightest fight, scratch or bite between them and they sleep all together and eat together getting along in harmony.
So it would break my heart to have to separate them, because of the fact that they are eating their joeys... So i'm hopping that i can find out here what i might be doing wrong to prevent this from happening.

I cant tell you much about their past... I know that they were imported from Germany and i bought them in Palma de Mallorca (Spanish Island, in the Atlantic Ocean)... I didnt see them untill the day that i picked them up at the airport... And i know that they were living together for more 3 months before i got them because that was the time that i took to get vet's permissions, air transports and payments all done... They did cost a little fortune, but i dont regret it at all. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I dont have them for breeding purposes, but yes i would like to have some joeys to keep for myself and see how the family structure would evolute.
Ta ta,
Moya

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#29845 - 12/03/04 03:26 AM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi all <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Besides their dinner every night, i am keeping a bowl in the cage always with some dry food in it... And all the babies that i had noticed last week are still in the pouches <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Ta ta,
Moya

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#29846 - 12/03/04 08:24 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
...Their cage is 180 cm tall, 50 cm deep and 70 cm wide...

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

6'x20"x28"

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#29847 - 12/03/04 08:32 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
wow Randy, thanks for the translation for us metric challenged! hummm, I'm thinking a bigger cage would be needed. Mine is 2 foot deep, 3 foot wide and 6 foot tall (I thought it was only 5 but I went and measured to be sure). I currently have 6 housed in it but figured I would need a much bigger cage before more could be added. hummmm.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#29848 - 12/03/04 10:17 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"blue"] Just a personal opinion and probably not worth much more than the paper it is written on....... I would rather see 6-8 gliders in the size cage that you have than a single glider in a 2x2x3 cage!!! [/]

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#29849 - 12/03/04 10:49 PM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


my cage is 7 ft tall 3 ft by 4 ft wide.. and as of right now I only have three gliders in there.. but, boy do they make sure they get the entire cage messy...

and I'm glad I came across this post because I have been wanting to do research on colonies.. because one day I am going to have a cage that is probably going to be about 10 to 12 ft tall.. and probably.. like 12 ft by 12 ft wide.. (depends on the size of the room it is getting built in) if not bigger.. and I was wondering if I'd be able to set up colonies in there... I mean I would think that if you can get 8 gliders in a 6 ft tall cage..maybe we'd be able to get that many in a bigger cage without them snatching each others joeys? Just a thought. However.. we'd have more than one place for them to sleep.. especially since right now I have 7 pouches in my cage and it's only 7 ft tall.. I have them at different heights so that if they want to sleep in a different pouch they can.. however mine have never split up and always sleep in the same pouch... have since the first day that we introduced them into the same cage..

Although I'm still going to be doing a lot more research before I ever make my decision about the colonies... although I have heard of them being able to work..but, I hear its hard work.. so.. I hope that this post gets more opinions so I can see what others have to say about colonies...


Edited by GliderMomAngie (12/03/04 10:50 PM)

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#29850 - 12/04/04 12:07 AM Re: Wild Colonies/Captive Colonies [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Moya, you may want to look into the tie-off method people use when there is no other choice. It basically involves tieing the testicles so that they are cut of from the blood supply, and after a few days they fall off.

This method should only be used when there is no other option, such as having a vet do the procedure, but I would recommend this over seperating your gliders.

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