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#324431 - 06/25/07 11:27 PM Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay
theresaw Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 310
Loc: United States
Does anyone have any experience with Dr. Gloria Goodman in Aston, Pa.? My glider "Bug" has an appointment Thursday for a second opinion on chronic urinary tract infections. She seems to lick herself alot when she is in heat and tends to develop infections. Has anyone ever had a glider spayed?? Theresa

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#324469 - 06/26/07 12:17 AM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: theresaw]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have never heard of this being done, but it sounds really dangerous, as with any animal or human for that matter, to spay you must cut open the abdominal cavity, and also glider females have bifurcated (two) uterues and who knows what other anatomy challenges. I would concentrate more on finding out what is triggering her to lick (other then heat cycle) have they tested for Kidney problems? Someone else can probably offer more advice, but I would not spay, it sounds way too dangerous...

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#324475 - 06/26/07 12:21 AM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree. Spaying is not reccomended.

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#324545 - 06/26/07 05:36 AM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: ]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
Please see these threads about spaying gliders.


http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ub...true#Post259230

http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=5&Number=282053&Searchpage=1&Main=28020&Words=spay+princessmegi&topic=0&Search=true#Post282053
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#325039 - 06/26/07 05:39 PM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: princessmegi]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3059
Loc: u.s.a.
in my opinion and aussie vets opinions its as good as killing a glider if you spay them its way too risky and the chances of them dying are close to 98 percent. i would never put a glider thru this.

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#325042 - 06/26/07 05:44 PM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: the gliders angel]
theresaw Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 310
Loc: United States
This is what I have always heard and 2 different vets are telling me I should spay her and I tell them I'm not willing to take that risk. I'm going to Dr. Goodman to see what she can recommend. Theresa

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#325122 - 06/26/07 07:42 PM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: theresaw]
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 7297
Loc: Quincy, IL
With most animals having them spayed is a relatively easy procedure. However with suggies it becomes much more difficult for several reasons. One is they have 2 uteruses rather than 1. Second is due to their small size the amount of blood they would lose during the procedure would be life threatening. In my opinion it should only be something that is attempted as a last ditch effort to save a suggies life.
With your little one & the chronic UTI's during her cycle....well I can sympathize with you. My Syddie has problems with her cycle as well & develops chronic pouch infections when she goes into season. Her pouch becomes swollen & has a nasty discharge. Rather than going for a "spay" to correct the problem, we have chosen to put her on a maintence program where we clean her pouch on a regular basis & apply a topical antibiotic ointment. Then a few days before her cycle is due to start I'd put her on an oral antibiotic to help with the internal swelling. So far this seems to be working & the pouch has returned to normal a few days after her cycle is over.
You may want to ask your vet about a maintainance program for Bug rather than risking a spay.
_________________________
Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be



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#325477 - 06/27/07 12:19 AM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: glidrz5]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3059
Loc: u.s.a.
i dont care what the vet says ive heard it by many vets. oh ive done spays before. there is big money in it for them. dont risk it. no matter what. if the meds arent working you need to find one that will just keep swiching till u find the right one. if you do a urine culture and sensitivity before she is on meds at least she must be off 4 days this test will tell u the right meds to treat the problem. and it is alot easier than spaying which will kill your glider more than likely. they die of blood loss. they dont have much blood in their body thats why it is difficult to get blood work on them and with spaying the die from blood loss.

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#325484 - 06/27/07 12:33 AM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: the gliders angel]
Anonymous
Unregistered


actually, theresaw at the NEaB the vet who spoke there spoke about gliders and spays. She said that a spay should only be done if it is to treat an existing condition, such as UTIs. She went into some specifics about it and how it definitely can be done safely. You should concider calling her. her name is Dr. Aubrey Fitch at the Bristol Animal Hospital.. she can give you some good names of poeple to see in PA. Maybe i am being forgetful, but were you at the NEaB, because someone asked her the exact same question abou the glider getting chronic UTIs and getting spayed could help!

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#326333 - 06/27/07 11:08 PM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: ]
theresaw Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 310
Loc: United States
Lyndsay, I did ask her that question and Dr. Goodman is who she recommended. Bug has a urinalysis and culture done at least every 3 months and has been on the correct antibiotic each time. She also had an ultrasound done and the bladder looked normal. Theresa

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#326348 - 06/27/07 11:19 PM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: theresaw]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3059
Loc: u.s.a.
a spay might have been successful once. but, as i said the chances of the glider not recovering are greater. the chance of losing the glider is far too great if i were the owner also the stress on the glider can kill it. i would rather chance finding an alternative method or diet change. according to vets in australia i have spoken with even bloodwork is far too stressful and should be a last resort.

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#326366 - 06/27/07 11:46 PM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: the gliders angel]
GliderLove Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 4801
Loc: SE Minnesota..
I have never really read up on the "spay" topic, but I would probably stay away from it too. It does sound VERY risky, I guess you would need to get as much info as possible, weigh your risks, and then take your chances on what you believe is right. I my self would not do it though.
_________________________
Cindy
Mom to
Jae, Ashton, Briannah, Nevaeh & Addy

& all my fuzzies!
Breeder of Leu's, Mosaics, wfb, and standard grey's.
Owner of www.MySugarAddiction.com

:rtmo: :leu:


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#326573 - 06/28/07 11:05 AM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: ]
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 3224
Loc: North Fort Worth - TX
Originally Posted By: LindsayAnnG
She went into some specifics about it and how it definitely can be done safely.


Spay's have not been considered safe- I do know medicine is a revolving door and can be enhanced but it hasn't been done. Lindsay since the vet you spoke with suggest it "can definitely be done safely" Have one of your girls spaded and let us know how it goes. Until you do take one of your girls in and have it successfully done- I don't think you should recommend it being safe.

I would spend more time getting to the root of the UTI problems instead of chancing an experiemental procedure that hasn't been shown to be safe yet. Unless someone can come here and say they've had it done successfully & safely-I would pass and for a long time.


_________________________
Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique

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#326585 - 06/28/07 11:18 AM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: jacknsally]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The vet that i had spoken to and the vet that theresa spoke to were the same people. If i had a girl that was having chronic UTIs that were mainly caused when the glider went into heat and the only way to help the glider was to spay her, then it would definitely be an option..

I am NOT saying yes jump right into it and do it blindly! However, the vet that i spoke with (and theresa) was Extremely knowlegable and had worked specifically with sugar gliders for many years. Theresa, if you have more questions about spays, you might want to contact Dr. Satinas at the south wilton veterinary hospitals. That is the doctor who dr. fitch said is the #1 sugar glider vet in the area and he is extremely educated on the topic of spays.

I do agree with trying to get to the root of the UTIs but if the glider is suffering, and you can find the BEST vet that has actually done multiple spays sucessfully, then you are right in concidering it because it could be the only way to alleviate your gliders discomfort from the UTIs

If you need help contacting Dr. Satinas, let me know.. maybe a drive to CT might be in order to have him see your little girl..

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#326594 - 06/28/07 11:25 AM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: ]
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 3224
Loc: North Fort Worth - TX
But if it can be done so safely- Imagine the impact on the rescue population. It would be great to see some success stories from this educated dr.

There's got to be more of a reason for the chronic UTI's then just simply going into heat. It's possible the first UTI was not ever fully cured. I would exhaust all urine/bacterial tests.
_________________________
Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique

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#326597 - 06/28/07 11:30 AM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: jacknsally]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, it has been done with out any complications, but only by a very knowledgably vet who has done it before. If you have questions about spaying a sugar glider (for rescue reasons) i would contact Dr. Aubery Fitch. She is very nice and would happily answer your questions.

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#326983 - 06/28/07 08:26 PM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: ]
theresaw Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 310
Loc: United States
I am not considering spaying "Bug" at this point but I'm saying 2 different vets recommended that. She has hadnumerous tests done and after seeing Dr. Goodman today is trying a different antibiotic for 2 - 4 weeks and may have another ultrasound if she is still haing problems. Theresa

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#326993 - 06/28/07 08:47 PM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: theresaw]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I really hope the meds take care of her and help "Bug" to over come whatever issues she is having. I would hate to think of her having to go through a spaying....

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#327002 - 06/28/07 09:09 PM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: ]
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 7297
Loc: Quincy, IL
Have you talked to Jen (xfilefan)? I know that she's had several gliders who have had chronic UTI problems so she may have some insight on what to try next.
_________________________
Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be



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#327034 - 06/28/07 10:31 PM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: glidrz5]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16745
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Theresaw, did you have your vet contact Dr. Tristan as I had recommended in a pm? Very curious to know what other vets that are experienced in exotics you had your vet talk to.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#327179 - 06/29/07 06:57 AM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: Srlb]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I may be missing something here, but how on earth can a SPAY (removal of the uterus) help with a UTI (urinary tract aka BLADDER infection)? The two are not related. confused
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#327184 - 06/29/07 07:03 AM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: Xfilefan]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
And here is what you can expect from that kind of invasive abdominal surgery (it's graphic, but taken in the OR during my Chronos' surgery):

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/269296/page/0/fpart/1


Edited by sugarlope (10/25/08 05:20 PM)
Edit Reason: fixed link
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#327862 - 06/29/07 09:27 PM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: Xfilefan]
theresaw Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 310
Loc: United States
I gave Dr. Goodman the phone number for Dr. Tristan but she wanted to talk to some other vets she knows first. Jen the reason the other vets suggested a spay is because she seems to get the UTI after being in heat. She licks herself alot when in heat and they think this may lead to the UTI?? And once again I'm not even considering a spay but this is what 2 vets recommended. Theresa

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#327865 - 06/29/07 09:30 PM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: theresaw]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16745
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Theresaw, have you tried offering cranberry juice at that time of month for her or right before that time to keep her system flushed out?
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#327872 - 06/29/07 09:41 PM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: theresaw]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
The licking could be irritating, or getting bacteria in where it shouldn't be. More likely is the infection is not clearing, and a couple weeks is common for a recurrence when not all the bacteria is gotten-figure 2 weeks antibiotics, 2 weeks for it to come back, and you have a month that coincides with the heat. A spay, however, will not fix the problem, as the uterus is not the only source of hormones. As glidrz5 suggested, maintenance for a recurrent problem is a much safer alternative. I'd have a hard time with a surgery that not only has a small chance of helping with a problem, but a very good chance your glider won't come out alive or would have serious lifelong problems for whatever life remains to them.

In other mammals, ie-dogs, cats, where these organs open directly to the outside of the body, that could make some sense. But a gliders are all internal-and it may be coincidence that these occur together, considering they all open into a common aperture that is internal rather than external (bowel, bladder, reproductive). Otherwise neutered males would have the same issues-I've had a few little 'men' with recurrent UTIs, plus two of my girls. Add to that that a glider's heat is not like that of a placental mammal-they don't bleed, or produce a discharge of any kind that can contribute to bacterial growth in the area.

I would ask, what are the test results when they diagnose a UTI, and her symptoms (other than the licking-that could be caused by a number of different things)? Also, has the vet checked the anal glands? It could also be that when she's in heat makes an existing problem just uncomfortable enough in combination with whatever else is going on to trigger the licking at that point. Your vet is also welcome to call mine-either Dr. Harris or Dr. Folland-both under the vet links for Utah.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#328537 - 06/30/07 08:43 PM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: Xfilefan]
theresaw Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 310
Loc: United States
In the past she had e. coli in the urine 3 different times. She was on antibiotics for 4 weeks the last time and I did get negative cultures in between infections. I routinely check a urinalysis and culture every 3 months and she had been negative since December but on the last test was positive for Pantoea Agglomerans which is a pseudomonas. It is sensitive to bactrum which she will take for 4 weeks. I will run a culture before stopping antibiotics and if negative run another culture 2 weeks after antibiotics. Dr. Goodman also suggested possibly giving her metacam during heat cycles so she is more comfortable and doesn't lick as much? Theresa

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#329535 - 07/02/07 10:39 AM Re: Dr.Gloria Goodman and Possible Spay [Re: theresaw]
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 3224
Loc: North Fort Worth - TX
have you seen this post about metacam. Please read the warnings about metacam.

http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ub...true#Post313456
_________________________
Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique

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