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#33032 - 01/04/05 07:26 PM Self Mutilation Article and stolen material
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
According a recent article on an un-named site, they have a cure for self mutilation, and now claim to be experts in that area. They state that they know how to stop it, They even claim they know what causes it. In the process their claims are backed and based on 2 cases, where there wasn't even a vet involved. No tests were run. They also stole a picture from our self mutilation site and made comments as to it's size, using that also as a weapon in their article. Referring to GC which has nothing to do with the self-mutilation site. Just as other articles that have been published on that un-named site, this article is also filled with nothing more than speculation and supposition and definitely without any facts, to prey on the new owners and try hard to make a name for themselves. Much of the information they have regarding the SM, they received from the self mutilation sites, then turn it around to make it look like it is their work and not the work of others. The self-mutilation community has been working on this problem for over 8 years, with vets and labs involved. And definitely more than 2 cases. Mary and Charlie alone has had up to 5 in their home at one time, all of which were rescues. We will not go as far as to let anyone think there is one definitive cause or reason, and there are also things that is not discussed on the site, that is discussed with each owner of an sm.

Since I can't post the link and won't as to not draw attention to it, since that is the purpose. I will say that in regards to Self-Mutilation, you as an owner will have to use your heads in the judgment of that article. I hope that in the sad event that your glider does self mutilate that you contact one of the people on the emergency contact board at the self mutilation site, who have extensive experience, for help with your glider. This is a problem that we discuss with each and every owner of an sm, which requires a vet involvement, and special treatment and care, and not just throwing them into a colony situation. They also claim if by putting them in colonies does not work, to put the glider down. What if the glider only has a urinary tract infection, a yeast infection or bacterial infection? Of course the neutering and throwing them into a colony will not help. This again is proof that you really must be very careful as to the information that you read on the net, from people that want you to believe that they are experts in these areas. This again is not a problem that only affects single males, nor is it a problem that only affects males. It may or may not involve depression, or loneliness. It requires the assistance of people who have been there, done that, and know how to help you help your glider. Your gliders life may depend on it.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#33033 - 01/04/05 07:44 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
It's interesting that with being involved with two self mutilators (one that died) and a phone call to Australia to talk to someone who has never seen a mutilator you suddenly become an expert. Bourbon, Mary, and I have spent countless hours dealing with the self mutilation issue in sugar gliders for several years. And we are not the only ones that have been pursueing answers. There are several members here on GC that have hands on experience dealing with self mutilators. We have consulted with leading sugar glider vets all over the US as well as working with any number of people who had self mutilators. We have spent thousands of dollars with vets in pursuit of the answers for self mutilation.

It simply irks me that someone can go to the Self Mutilation Site and read the information and then come up with a few far fetched ideas under the premises of being an expert on self mutilation. This post simply shows the posters lack of overall knowledge about sugar gliders.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#33034 - 01/04/05 07:47 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have to say, that in rescuing, I can not think of anyone as conscientious and caring as Charlie and Mary-no matter what one person's site may claim. It is the thoughts of one person and if "scientific data" cannot be proven by naming the "source" how can ANYONE believe what they read on an unnamed site?

To the Newbies--Bourbon and Charlie have treated and saved more SM's than I can count in the last 8 years-- TRUST THAT!@

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#33035 - 01/04/05 07:52 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well I already typed this out once, but wasn't able to submit... so here goes again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I completely agree with you. I read that article yesterday and I was aghast! It's sloppy, poorly researched, and intentionally misleading!

Also, the source they use isn't even appropriate! Of course Australian researchers don't know anything about SM and joey cannibalization! A Wildlife Biologist, especially one dealing with a species as common as a wild sugar glider, is looking at TRENDS and SPECIES INTERACTIONS. Not at INDIVIDUALS. These aren't animals that are kept as pets very often there... they're wild "nuisances".

Also, Charlie recently spoke with a young lady who is writing a thesis and contacted Universities and zoos in Australia about what they do when they have a sick glider. She was told by one well-known zoo that gliders are so common there that when they have a sick one they just "put it down and replace it with a healthy one". Not exactly a source I'd be banking on if I had a sick glider.

I think what's scariest to me is this... Those who've been around the community for any length of time know better than to believe everything they read... especially from "certain" sources. But some poor unsuspecting person who's new to the community and researching can very easily be duped by this stuff. It's quite worrisome to me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

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#33036 - 01/04/05 08:00 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
I can't say that I've read that article, but I can see how the info might be misleading to newbies. Especially if they had an SMer and were looking for an easy way out or trying to clear their conscience for not getting the proper treatment or even consulting a vet. I can't believe that someone would have the nerve to post something like that. If they've ever been to GC, they know that there are few people here who would doubt something that B, Mary, or Charlie said!!!
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#33037 - 01/04/05 08:27 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Well, I read the article and I have to say....the author appears to have been missinformed.

And to write that gliders need to be kept in a colony of four is absolutly incorrect. I myself have owned multi gliders for eight years and all have been kept in pairs except for one trio. 30+ gliders and none have ever mutilated.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#33038 - 01/04/05 10:15 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
Just some of the problems with this article:

1) N=2. No good research is based on two subjects.

2) No empirical data whatsoever. Just an untested hypothesis.

3) A leap in reasoning based on this untested hypothesis, generalized to all gliders for all time. To pick out one variable common to N=2 and present that as factual is misleading and scientifically invalid.

4) Ignoring the facts that ARE known -- that self-mutilation occurs in a number of species, with no known etiology.

The authors are smart, articulate writers who I believe care about the welfare of gliders. I wish they would think through their arguments before writing misleading information.
_________________________


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#33039 - 01/04/05 10:19 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Something else wrong with it... The article was obviously written to slam several other businesses and sites (including this one!). No respectable "researcher" would write an article just to disparage others under the guise of providing information. That right there made everything they had to say in that article, and any other article, invalid in my opinion.

Sad, sad, sad. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

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#33040 - 01/04/05 10:25 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
Well, I did a quick search and found and read the article. I'm not surprised at where I found it. I recently joined there just to give it a chance and found that a lot of what they have to say isn't worth the breath they took to say it.
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#33041 - 01/04/05 10:47 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"magenta"]thanx for the head's up, bourbon. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

i have not read the article, nor do i wish to, since it sounds inaccurate (at best). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" />

however, i have a question. why are there some questions which only those with sm's are being asked? why can't this info be known to the rest of the glider community? could this info possibly help the rest of us prevent or treat sm if it shows up in one of our little ones?

i do not mean to be confrontational, but i am confused and worried as to why this info is not put out there for all glider caregivers to be aware of.

could somebody please clarify this for me? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanx.gif" alt="" /> [/]

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#33042 - 01/05/05 12:15 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
KarenE Offline
Owner

Registered: 03/25/00
Posts: 41153
Loc: LittleRock, AR USA
[:"blue"] According to Board Rules, you MAY NOT cut & paste information from other websites. You may post a link.

The only way this thread will stay open is if all Board Rules are followed to the letter.

Those posts which contained cut & paste information have been removed from this thread. [/]
_________________________
Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
Sugar Glider Help



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#33044 - 01/05/05 12:40 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
charlesex..
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
why are there some questions which only those with sm's are being asked?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

the questionairre, is setup in such a fashion that we ask every imaginal question that may have a contributing factor in sm's. Through these questions, we are able to see if these gliders have things in common, which may or may not be contributing factors. Also when the questionairre is submitted, those of us in the SM community, already have the answers to many questions, so when we do speak with the owners, time is not spent asking some of the basic q's that we ask each owner. The time is more wisely spent, talking to them about modifications if needed, tests, getting the collar on, what we know and what needs to be done to properly care for the glider.

Our calls usually last for hours, without that info, the calls would last much longer.

Also We have the questionairre, if the person wants the information to take with them to their vet.

The SM site tellls everyone the most important things everyone needs to know, how to tell if the glider is sm'ing and how to get a collar on, who to contact with experience, common things, as well as the stories from owners, both failures and successes.

I can't explain how it feels to have an SM, it is devasting, scarey and you really feel alone. Many times people have no clue as to what to do, where to go, and how to care for them.

We deal with all sm owners as if their gliders were individuals, and each of those questionaires are as individual as the gliders are. Each one is handled on a case by case basis.

There is nothing on that questionnaire that I wouldn't ask someone else in many other medical issues.

we look for many things on the questionairre, possibilities..

allergys, injury possibilities, genetics, common breeders, stress, depression, enrichment improper caging (in a cardboard box or hampster cage).. the list goes on..

we will never go so far as to say there is a definitive answer on a cure or a cause.

Each case is different, and we must run all possible tests that is available to us, many times those tests do come up negative, however not always, in fact each time we pray something shows up. There are many tests available for Humans and other large animals that is not available for gliders. The costs of some of those tests are also very expensive. then we find one place that has the equipment small enough for another test, but they are on the other side of the united states. We do constantly look everywhere for possibilities.

We try very hard to avoid stress, as they go through enough stress with the problem and the e-collar, the good thing is they do adapt to the collar, and with living modifications, are able to have a fairly normal, recovery period, they are left in their own cage, with their cagemate, given extra care and attention.

since our step by step rebuttal was removed (based on board rules) I will later try to explain the inconsistancies of the article in my own words.

I feel it is very important that this post remain, that the truth needs to be known. I would hate to see someone think they are making a choice of euthanization when there is a chance for recovery.

We have studied this problem for over 8 years, and have worked with many, many sm's. We work one on one with the owners, vets and are there for each SM, we all become one, a family with a common thread.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#33045 - 01/05/05 01:32 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 5914
Loc: Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
Here is a LINK to a thread containg the post Made by Bourbon and myself that was removed fron this thread.

Sorry I need to go reread the rules I would have just reworded what was said if I knew I couln't cut n past. I just hate to type lol
_________________________
cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx

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#33046 - 01/05/05 01:33 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Love their comments that physically healthy gliders kept in a colony of at least four have never SM'd and that gliders who live alone won't live long and will be mentally unhealthy. My rescue, Tyler single-handedly refutes this absurd hypothesis. He was a lone glider for 2 1/2 years living in a galvanized cage and being fed Brisky's dry pelleted diet. Tyler was never handled/interacted with by the prior owner. Guess that's why it took over a year to get him to trust me. Once he trusted me, the bond was so strong that I could trust him enough to take him outside & let him play on a tree (see the attached pic). How did I get him to come back to me when he was having so much fun? Simply held my arm out, called his name and instantly Tyler was on my person again. Even when so ill due to lumpy jaw and secondary systemic abscessing right to the tip of his tail (which caused dry gangrene to eat away almost half of his tail before proper diagnosis/tail amputation by a third vet), Tyler never chewed at his tail area despite the pain he must have been experiencing. Even after being introduced to a rescue female, he remained extremely bonded to me and loved going places with me as did his mate Tia. Rather strange, given that Tyler's prior history would seem to make him the consummate poster boy for being a SM glider according to the these peoples' hypothesis.

As for the alleged myth that healthy gliders will only bond to each other and not to their humans, again easily refuted. Bear & Helen's two offspring (Pip and BooBear) remained with their parents for the majority of their first year OOP and yet the two young ones became bonded to me especially BooBear who would bark until I came & opened their cage so he could jump out on me to play, give me glider kisses, groom me and cuddle down in my arms to get chin/tummy rubs. And believe me when I say neither Pip nor BooBear bonded to me because they were unhealthy physically/mentally nor because their parents ignored them.

Finally, how would these people explain the fact that Helen and Bear's permanent separation 2 1/2 years ago (after being mates for 5 1/2 years) has not led to physically/mentally unhealthy gliders who by their standards should at least be SMing and in the worst case scenario should be dead especially in Bear's case as he was so protective of Helen (who's totally blind)? Both gliders are doing great, love playing with me during tent-time, eat well and have had no health issues in these last 2 1/2 years.

If these people want recognition as glider experts, said recognition cannot be based on some flimsey observations and hypotheses. It must be based on the kind of time and effort people like Bourbon, CharlieH and MaryH have put in (along with numerous vets and researchers) attempting to determine the causes of SMing and how to treat it.


Attachments
321606-TreeTyler.jpg (51 downloads)



Edited by Xfilefan (01/05/05 03:44 PM)

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#33047 - 01/05/05 04:02 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I am going to speak of my own experience with my SM glider, and that should make my feelings on this clear.

FIRST: If it wasn't for Glider Central and Bourbon, my first glider would have died. He is a Self Mutilator.
My Commander Riker.

I cannot describe what it is like to have a Mutilator as your first glider experience. You kind of have to be there. To experience the terror the Mutilator noise brings, the 24/7 care, especially to start out, the fear that if you dare sleep, they'll get out of the collar and tear themselves apart. The vets, the tests, the syringe feedings around the clock, and on, and on, and knowing that maybe nothing you do will ever help. If he had died, I may not have ever gotten another. Since I have been through some of the worst I can think of, and we have survived, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again, KNOWING there is always HOPE.

In Riker's case, thanks to Bourbon and the support of GC, caught early with minimal damage, Riker stopped actively mutilating, and has been collar free since June 2003. I have heard the noise twice since then, briefly, and an IMMEDIATE trip to the vet uncovered an infection. Pain meds and antibiotics were administered, and he hasn't had to go back in the collar. I'd say there was a physical cause.

Riker is a LONE GLIDER. So far, despite extensive intro routines, he has rejected 2 possible cagemates. We'll be trying again with a third soon.

Riker is a NEUTERED MALE. Pompom's are removed.

Riker had a Mutilator cage. In a collar, a glider cannot maneuver well, and if they fall, it could kill them if it is any distance at all. They will not be able to catch themselves in a collar. The cage for a mutilator is the way it is for the safety of a glider in a collar. I suppose one could make a very long cage that isn't very tall, the one on the Glider Health website is an example.

A lone glider is a dead glider? Who says?
Well, someone forgot to inform Riker and Gimli of that. I have 2 neutered lone males. Gimli is NOT a self mutilator, and will turn 3 next month.

Riker's Self Mutilation was triggered by a UTI, and possibly the onset of puberty at the same time. We neutered him just to be certain all possible causes were taken care of, treated his UTI, and again, he RECOVERED, despite being a lone glider.

As to bonding, Riker NEVER hisses or clicks his teeth at another glider. He does for me. When I come home from work, we "converse" in glider. He is happier on me than anywhere else. The first thing he does when he gets on me is thoroughly rub his head all around my neck and chin to mark me as his. You'd think if he was lonely, he wouldn't try and seriously injure all potential cagemates. I would venture to guess that he is "bonded" to me. (Either that, or I have a rather vivid imagination.)

Riker has a large cage, 2.5 feet by 3 feet by 4.5 feet. He has never lacked for toys, variety, enrichment, playtime, anything. Even before the SM.

I really haven't seen a DSM-IV (THE definitive source for human mental illness) geared for gliders yet, or for any animal. How, exactly, would mental illness be diagnosed, I wonder?

I have a living, breathing, out of e-collar mutilator that is alive, affectionate, and well in defiance of almost everything this article says is true. And <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanx.gif" alt="" /> Bourbon and GC for helping to get him there!

Having said that, I think it's almost kind of funny-in a sad sort of way. Putting Riker down when there was so much hope was NEVER an option to me.

Here's a pic of Riker THEN...


Attachments
321653-Riker_in_ECollarMay2003.jpg (52 downloads)



Edited by Xfilefan (01/05/05 04:06 PM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#33048 - 01/05/05 04:04 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
And NOW. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/muchlove.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />


Attachments
321654-RikertheKing.jpg (51 downloads)

_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#33049 - 01/05/05 04:54 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> But I have to say--what an amazing recovery! That is just beautiful--and who can argue with success like that?

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#33050 - 01/05/05 08:52 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
kb2e Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 2242
Loc: Willard, Mo. USA
I got as far in that article where they say 'gliders must be kept in colonies of at least 4" and "a lone glider is a dead glider" and lost any belief in anything else they might have to say. To me, that makes everything they say a bunch of hooie!
_________________________
Kathy
God Bless America
RIP Sneakers\Abby\Pepe\Missy/Shelby/Buddy

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#33051 - 01/05/05 09:12 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />

hooey? kathy? boy you have been gone far too long.. What would you say about it if you were by the pool at the hotel? that's okay the sgga is right around the corner
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#33052 - 01/06/05 08:46 AM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> Do not think the board would allow what Kathy really meant to say about the article. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#33053 - 01/06/05 12:24 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
lol...I think that's how the majority of us view that article!
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#33054 - 01/08/05 05:49 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 5914
Loc: Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
Yep Can't wait to get together so we can VOICE our oppinions! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> lol
_________________________
cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx

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#33055 - 01/08/05 06:25 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Glideroo that is a cute picture but didn't taking your baby ouside during the day hurt his eyes? I thought that direct sunlight can hurt/kill a glider? I was just wondering because I have been reading post about people taking their gliders outside and I have always wanted to ask that but never did. I hope your not offended, I just really am curious. My baby doesn't even like it when the light in my room is on and it's very dim because I put tissue paper over it. ............ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

as for that article all I can say is what the heck! I have a lone glider that is bonded to me! And he does NOT over groom and IS happy! I am sooo mad after reading that!

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#33056 - 01/08/05 07:55 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


ILoveSuggies, I asked the same question a week or two ago. I had thought that sun was ok, then I saw something on another site somewhere that said that sunlight would hurt their eyes. The answers I got here pretty much said that was a myth, and that it was ok, at least in moderation.

I ended up doing a google search and found some detailed information that explained that the sun wouldn't hurt their eyes any more than ours, they just shouldn't look directly into the sun - Then again, neither should we! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I figured that made the most sense. I mean, gliders may be nocturnal, but even in the wild it would seem that they would have to deal with at least SOME daylight.

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#33057 - 01/09/05 02:06 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


ILoveSuggies: Faierie is correct that the sun will not hurt their eyes. Tyler loved going outside with me and would perch on my shoulder as we walked around in the yard. He wouldn't even jump to the tree unless I put my arm out letting him know it was O.K. to jump onto the tree. Even then he'd stay in the lower branches where I could interact with him if I wanted to. When I take any of my other gliders outside in their pouch(I leave it open), they immediately sense they're outside, come out and crawl up on my shoulder to check things out. Seems they love being outside when the weather is good.

P.S.: 2 more pics of Tyler in the tree attached. Also, please note that you can only do what I do if you implicitly trust your glider(s) to stay on you when you're outside. I have one glider I cannot trust to stay on me at all times so his bonding pouch is kept closed but he can look out of its window and see what's going on around him.


Attachments
323403-MyTyler.jpg (27 downloads)


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#33058 - 01/09/05 02:25 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I took my baby outside with me a couple of times but he wouldn't leave my shrit and was crabbing the whole time. So I thought that the light hurt his eyes. I guess not? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> I wonder why he didn't like it..... Is it good for them to go outside? Like, if I got a reptarium for him and put it out side (when it gets warm of course) with him in it he might enjoy the fresh air?

Thanks for the info. Faierie would you mind either posting or pming me a link to those sites about how it doesn't hurt their eyes? I would love to read those. If not, that's ok.

Thanks a bunch

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#33059 - 01/09/05 02:49 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


ILOVESUGGIES states:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

if I got a reptarium for him and put it out side (when it gets warm of course) with him in it he might enjoy the fresh air?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Only If:

1) you stay with the glider at all times to avoid the risk of a neighbor's cat/dog wandering over and trying to get at the glider.

2) you set the cage up on a table as opposed to its being on the ground. I would worry about possible pesticides, fungi, bacteria, parasites, etc. that might be on the ground/grass.

3) You make sure the reptarium has no holes in the mesh that could allow insects to get in (examples: mosquitoes which can transmit diseases such as West Nile Virus; ticks which can transmit Lyme Disease).

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#33060 - 01/09/05 02:49 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


This is probably off topic but I wanted to ask two things.
First in taking gliders outdoors and letting them play in trees etc isn't anyone concerned with the branches having pesticides etc on them?
Secondly being an ex- exotic bird owner I have read where a bird of prey or some other animal could snatch the glider up in a heartbeat. I just couldn't take that chance no matter how much I believed my gliders were 'bonded' to me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />
No offense is intended. Just curious and doing my own research. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

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#33061 - 01/09/05 03:19 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hazyl states:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
This is probably off topic but I wanted to ask two things.
First in taking gliders outdoors and letting them play in trees etc isn't anyone concerned with the branches having pesticides etc on them?
Secondly being an ex- exotic bird owner I have read where a bird of prey or some other animal could snatch the glider up in a heartbeat.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Your are correct to be concerned about possible pesticides, etc. on the tree. However, the tree that Tyler was allowed to play on was never sprayed with any pesticides, was not noted to have any type of tree disease and was a young tree wherein I could access the top of the tree to get Tyler if necessary so the concerns about a bird of prey or other animal snatching Tyler up was not really an issue. Additionly, Tyler always stayed within arm's reach somehow knowing that I preferred him to do so. I rather do believe it was because of the special bond we had. And while I have a good bond with my other gliders, I have never felt comfortable enough to try letting them hang out on the tree. They are more adventurous than Tyler was and love climbing too much so the only tree they've ever gotten to climb on is the artificial christmas tree that's in their room.

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#33062 - 01/09/05 09:54 PM Re: Self Mutilation Article and stolen material [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The thread I mentioned is here, and the article I looked up is here.

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