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#330694 - 07/03/07 08:46 PM SCURVY????
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
Anyone ever have a glider with scurvy? My Cheddar ( a farily new rescue) was diagnosed with scruvy today - along with a host of resultant issues.

I have a GREAT and knowledgeable vet who spent a good deal of time educating me on all of the suppliments and medications and modifications to consider, but I was hoping to hear from someone who has experienced this. What do I expect from here? Anything I should be especially alert for?

Goodness - Cheddar and Jackie Chan both with major issues at the same time - So it goes with rescues, right?
_________________________
~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#330700 - 07/03/07 08:53 PM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
JayAndDiana Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 1675
Loc: NJ
Sorry you are going through this Val!! I can't be of much help except for lots of well wishes (been following along with Jackie Chan's story) for all of you!! And hope things turn around soon for Cheddar (LOVE the name)!
_________________________
~Diana: mom to Travis (10/24/08)
4 suggies
1 Big ol' Maine coon Cat: Boots
75 gal salt water reeftank

gangel Gizzy

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#330932 - 07/04/07 08:39 AM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: JayAndDiana]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I believe that scurvy is essentially the same thing as Hind Leg Paralysis... you can read more about it by going to my page Hind Leg Paralysis... There are many different names for the same condition but they all describe damage due to calcium imbalance.
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#330939 - 07/04/07 09:00 AM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: sugarglidersuz]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
Really? Is scurvy in gliders different than it is in people? I thought that it was a lack of vitamin C that causes softening of the gums, tooth decay and bleeding of the mucous membranes.

Cheddar has no paresis - he is completely mobile - all 4 limbs working great and not even any limping. However, all of his teeth are abscessed and he is lethargic.
_________________________
~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#330954 - 07/04/07 09:38 AM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Oops! You're right - scurvy IS from lack of Vitamin C... see, that's what I get for posting before my first cup of coffee in the morning shakehead Sorry frown
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#330982 - 07/04/07 10:27 AM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: sugarglidersuz]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
Not a problem Suz

I just panicked because i know that you have a wealth of information about gliders and illness and such and I thought "oh no, I am treating this all wrong!"

OK, deep breath and all is well.....
_________________________
~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#330991 - 07/04/07 10:47 AM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
smile
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#330998 - 07/04/07 11:04 AM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: sugarglidersuz]
BlndGrl8 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 2262
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona!!
Oh Val, I'm sorry to hear about little Cheddar hug2 I will pray that he will start to feel better and that he knows you will take the best care of him! You are a good suggie mom and you are doing everything you can for him. ( I love the name Cheddar, it is so cute!)
_________________________
heart Kristin
:glider: Sparkles &
Flower

mlove Loving Husband Christopher
angel Proverbs 3:5,6


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#331027 - 07/04/07 11:50 AM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: BlndGrl8]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Way to go Suz! shakehead Give people a heart attack first thing in the morning. Good job! roflmao roflmao roflmao


I've never heard of a glider getting scurvy specifically but I do know that so often people get hung up on the calcium to phophrous ratio in diets that they forget the need for other essential vitamins and minerals.

I would love to know more about this.
What tests did your vet preform?
How did he determine it was scurvy?
What symptoms does/did your glider have?
Are there other posible issues or is it definately scurvy?
What is your vets recommended treatment?

As I said, I've not heard of this before and would love the chance to learn. Although I'm sorry your glider is going through this, this is an educational opportunity for all of us. Please keep us updated with his progress.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#331064 - 07/04/07 12:40 PM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: Dancing]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Let us know how it goes!...I have never had a glider with scurvey, so I am interested to hear about it.

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#331145 - 07/04/07 03:02 PM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: ]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
WEll, I cannot say that I know too much either. Although, it does not surprise me that this would pop up in MY house.... I seem to be a magnet for the most unusual situations. I cannot tell you how many times a vet has said to me "I have never seen this before, but...."

Anyway, here is the story as I know it:

Cheddar is a new rescue - BTW thanks to all of you that love the name. We have a fondness for naming our animals after food - especially food off the Sonic Drive in menu - Anyway, I have been dealing VERY heavily with all of Jackie Chan's issues and have been letting Cheddar settle in. So, he has been here for a couple of weeks almost. IN this time, I noticed that he was not just spitting out little pieces of food, but that he was tossing aside whole pieces of fruit, veggies etc. He was put on the BML as soon as he came here because I suspected that his previous owner was not feeding him well. She literally dropped him off and said "I don't know about his tail. He loves those yogurt things." and she left!

Back on topic: So, I sat and watched him one of the nights that I was up all night with Jackie Chan. He eats most of the BML mix but just licks everything else and then tosses it aside. I first thought that maybe the previous owner had had his teeth filed or that he had some mouth pain or something. So, the next night I pureed all the fruit and veggies for him. He ate pretty good that night, but still not so well. In the last day or two, I noticed that he was a bit "sluggish". He wasn't playing as much as the other gliders, and no running or jumping, just walking. So, I called the vet - he felt that Cheddar would be OK to wait to come in the next day with Jackie when Jackie went for his post-op follow up visit.

So, we get to the vet and I tell him that Cheddar really needs a good looking over. I agreed to let them anesthesize him and take some x-rays. WELL----45 minutes later they returned. I was really getting worried.

The first thing out of Dr. G's mouth was "that glider's mouth is in worse shape than I Have ever seen."

Basically, here is what I know: When they were able to open his mouth, his entire oral cavity was covered in pus. They cleaned him up, thinking that his tongue was abscessed, but found that it was that ALL of his teeth are abscessed. He took some blood and x-rays of the rest of the body. Came back to tell me that he is suffering from what amounts to scurvy. Lack of vit. C for sure, but that it had lead to such a severe infection that he may already be in systemic septic infection. So, after much debate, I agreed to let Dr. G. place him on an antibiotic not tried on gliders before (at least to his knowledge). However, this antibiotic has been very successful with knocking out oral infection in other small animals fairly quickly. ALso, he was given a pain shot and we have some pain meds to use for the next few days (sorry I don't have the names on the meds, I am visiting family today and don't have the bottles with me). Also, I have a vitamin C suppliment that has to be placed in his water, and he is getting increased fruit with medication administrations - with a focus on fruits that are glider safe AND high in vit. C.

We are back to daily phone consults with the vet (just finished them with Jackie a week ago, but oh, well). ANd, Cheddar will go in frequently for check ups. Dr. G. feels that if we can get the infection under control, then he can assess whether any teeth need to be pulled and if there are any long-term effects from the vit. C. deficiency.

I continue to puree all of his food for now. Also, I have him with me all day - Jackie too, and they are not bonded to each other, so I am wearing two pouches everywhere. I'm sure that doesn't look strange at all!
_________________________
~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#331149 - 07/04/07 03:07 PM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
BlndGrl8 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 2262
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona!!
Oh my Gosh Val, what a story!! I feel for poor little Cheddar frown his poor mouth cry Please give him some hugs from me! hug2 What kind of fruits are high in Vitamin C? I want to make sure mine are getting Vitamin C too!!
_________________________
heart Kristin
:glider: Sparkles &
Flower

mlove Loving Husband Christopher
angel Proverbs 3:5,6


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#331155 - 07/04/07 03:16 PM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: BlndGrl8]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Citrus. High in Vitamin C, but also not super-recommended for gliders. High in acid, too.

However, I think most diets say you can feed citrus once or twice a week? Check ...

I'm shocked to hear about scurvy in a glider ... However, I've heard SO much about gliders with tooth problems ... it makes me wonder if this is an underlying cause?

I'm super paranoid about all tooth problems - humans, dogs, cats ... gliders! It is just a major fear for me, I don't know why! I can't stand bad teeth in people. I'm one of those people on a first name basis with my dentist ...

Anyway - we'll be adding in some weekly citrus!
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#331159 - 07/04/07 03:20 PM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: ValkyrieMome]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Here is a list of fruits and veggies that are high in vitamin c. thumb
Fruits and Vegetables High In Vitamin C

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#331302 - 07/04/07 07:48 PM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: ]
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 7297
Loc: Quincy, IL
Val, my vet Dr Kaiser has had quite a bit of experience with Dental problems in gliders. He delt with my Sassy for a year through his peridontal issues & also with Nicky when his front incisors started getting bad. I'm sure he wouldn't mind talking to Dr G if he would like to talk to a vet with "prior experience" in pulling/removing glider teeth. I know that Jen (Xfilefan) also has a vet who has been dealing with peridontal issues with her glider.
_________________________
Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be



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#331407 - 07/04/07 10:20 PM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: glidrz5]
Anonymous
Unregistered


*winces* ouch! I had an abcessed tooth and I can't imagine how much pain that little one must be going through with all of those teeth in that condition! I do hope that everything will become better for Cheddar with the meds.

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#331410 - 07/04/07 10:24 PM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I cant wait to hear "Everything is better with Cheddar" tounge

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#331444 - 07/04/07 10:58 PM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: ]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
roflmao

Thank you all for your concern and advice. Cheddar is doing a bit better - he seems to have more "pep in his step" after just 24 hours on the antibiotic. Hopefully, this and the suppliment will clear up any issues and we will not have to have any of his teeth removed.

Any more advice or ideas would be welcome. I will keep you posted on his progress.
_________________________
~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Top
#331460 - 07/04/07 11:07 PM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
I have no advice, but please do keep us updated!
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

Top
#331545 - 07/05/07 04:43 AM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: ValkyrieMome]
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 7297
Loc: Quincy, IL
Val, does your vet have you using any kind of an antibacterial rinse? I know that Dr Kaiser has me use a Chlorahexadine Rinse on my kids. For the back teeth, I'll put some into a syringe & squirt it on their teeth & then let them "gargle" it by shaking their heads. For the front incisors I'll dip a Q-Tip into the rinse & gently brush the teeth front & back to make sure that nothing is lodged between them that might irritate their gums. It has seemed to help with my guys & if nothing else it helps to keep their mouth a little cleaner.
_________________________
Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be



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#331598 - 07/05/07 09:12 AM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: glidrz5]
mattysmom Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1234
Loc: Tarpon Springs, FL
British sailors are called "limeys" because they added limes to the food supplies they carried with them to avoid scurvy. I thought scurvy was bone-related. I guess it could include teeth too.

_________________________
Moira & Matty & my zoo

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#331643 - 07/05/07 10:26 AM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: mattysmom]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Adequate vitamin C is super important. I thought that gliders were one of the animals that can make their own vit C.. . If so, then there is some reason why yours isn't.

Since vitamins and minerals are synergistic, you may want to talk to your vet about the amount of C vs the amount of supplemental iron you are feeding if iron is in the vitamin/mineral supplement you are using. Vitamin C increases the bioavailability of iron.

Also CoQ10 is considered by some to be very helpful in maintaining healthy gums. Maybe your vet uses this supplement in miniscule amts too?

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#331669 - 07/05/07 11:01 AM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
Scurvy is common in guinea pigs because they can't synthasize their own vitamin C, I thought gliders could? scurvy usually manifests itself with difficulty moving. These are the symptoms in GP's

Lethargy, weakness, unwillingness to move
Hopping instead of walking, enlarged or stiff limb joints
Not eating, loss of weight
Diarrhea
Eye and nose discharge
Rough coat
Tenderness to touch (may cry out in pain if restrained), poor flesh condition
Internal skeletal-muscular hemorrhage


It is a surprising diagnosis to me.
_________________________
Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:

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#331771 - 07/05/07 03:34 PM Re: SCURVY???? [Re: Gossamer]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Same symptoms humans, primates, and pigs with scurvy have!


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#337436 - 07/12/07 09:37 PM Re: SCURVY???? UPDATE [Re: ]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
Cheddar had a check up with the vet yesterday. He is not out of the woods yet, but he no longer has a mouth full of pus! He still has many loose teeth, but we are delaying any decision about pulling them until the infection is cleared up. Cheddar still requires pureed food, but he is attempting to eat solid food now - a few peas each day. However, it appears that this is still painful. So, we remain on antibiotics, pain meds, vit. C suppliment and oral rinse.

He is much more active than he had been, so that is good. Dr. G. believes that he will make a full recovery! Yippie!
_________________________
~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Top
#337457 - 07/12/07 10:06 PM Re: SCURVY???? UPDATE [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
Xglider Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 11157
Loc: Tampa, FL
Thanks for the update and glad it sounds like good news!!
hug2
_________________________
* ~ * John * ~ * Sorry store is closed at this time.. <br>
Link -> ~~ XtremeGlider ~~ Home of the original Re~set Toys! ~~ <br>
Oct 2012 update.. miss my gliders and my
glider family and think of my friends often!!!

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#337668 - 07/13/07 08:11 AM Re: SCURVY???? UPDATE [Re: Xglider]
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 7297
Loc: Quincy, IL
Val, if you ever want to talk to someone who's been there, I'm here for you & I know Jen will be too. Dental problems in gliders are awful both for your baby & you because you feel sooooo frustrated that you can't make it all better for your baby. I've been there so I know how you are feeling. My Sassy battled his peridontal problems for a year and then his son developed the issues with his front incisors. I never did have pus (thank God) but I know Jen has delt with that with her little girl, but I do know the pain & frustration & stress that you are going through.
_________________________
Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be



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#337670 - 07/13/07 08:19 AM Re: SCURVY???? UPDATE [Re: glidrz5]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
Val, It sounds like you and your vet have everything under control with Cheedar. I'm so sorry that you have to deal with another health issue in addition to sweet little Jacki Chan....I'm sure your nerves are frazzeled at this point with worry and stress, please know that there are alot of people who care (including myself) and if you ever need to talk we are here for you.
Keeping both of your babies in my thoughts and prayers.

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#337696 - 07/13/07 09:02 AM Re: SCURVY???? UPDATE [Re: LSardou]
Jennie
Unregistered


How lucky Cheddar and Jackie Chan are to have you!!! I'm glad he seems to be doing better.

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#337909 - 07/13/07 12:30 PM Re: SCURVY???? UPDATE [Re: ]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
You guys!!!!!!!!! I guess the stress has been more than I have been willing to admit to myself because I am crying like a baby just in reading the sweet things you guys have said.

THANK YOU for just listening and being there. I wish that I had such a good update to post about Jackie Chan as well, but that is another story.

I thought that I was strong enough for all of this.... after all, I have three dogs and a son with special needs as well - needless to say, I have the vet on speed dial and when I call they just say "hi Val, who do you need to bring in today." Sad, huh? I guess it is not that I am not strong, I just need to allow myself to cry and to rest from time to time. Jackie's needs have really taken a toll on me - I have not slept more than 2 1/2 hours at a time for weeks now, so maybe I am just tired. - And, I am in the midst of a lupus flare up. When it rains it pours!

Anyway-- THANKS! You guys are the best! I am believing that Cheddar is on his way to a full recovery, but it is nice to have others to talk to about it.
_________________________
~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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