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#333145 - 07/07/07 05:17 PM Confused about some things...
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello everyone,

I see whenever someone has a problem with bonding at first, or not knowing what to do to make the process progress, the answer seems to be time, patience, time, patience, etc.

My S.G. chip seems to be one of the "scared babies" that crabs at the very sight of me, and crabs even harder at the sight of my hands. There seems to be no progress made within these first few days of having him, which is expected because I've heard just about everyone say that days is not enough.

I am confused about some things though.

If I were to take the next few days and do nothing but talk to him near his cage (while he's sleeping, because he doesn't seem to come out until LATE LATE at night) and carry him around in his pouch while he is sleeping for a few hours everyday... how do I know when to progress to the next step? I know I need to go at the pace of the Sugar Glider, but I don't know when to try the next step. For example, how do I know WHEN to start feeding him licky treats? (which seems to be impossible considering he is asleep in his pouch at all hours of the day that I am awake, and I stay up late but he doesn't wake up and go out and about until even LATER, 3am-ish)

After I begin to feed him licky treats, how do I know when to start having "tent time", etc. Also, with tent time, how do you get them to come OUT of their pouch? What if when it is time to have "tent time" he doesn't come out to explore but rather stays in his pouch, or stays in and goes back to sleep?

Based on my reading, I would suggest that I continue to put my scent all around his cage like I've been doing, talking to him outside of his cage (while he is sleeping because I guess I have no choice in that), talk to him while I carry him around in the pouch (once again, while sleeping) and then when I have tent time, maybe turn the pouch inside out so he HAS to come out and then take away the pouch until after tent time?

I guess the reason why I'm confused is that I've read pretty much everywhere that you should carry them around in the pouch for a few hours a day and then eventually start offering them licky treats from within the pouch, and then they will EVENTUALLY associate you with good things and begin to come out on their own to trust you... EVENTUALLY.

However, I have been carrying him around in the pouch, but there is no way I can offer him licky treats when it comes to that point because he is a VERY deep sleeper. In fact, I can even reach my hand into the pouch and pet him while he is sleeping and he doesn't even budge! He did wake up while I was holding him in the pouch today and once he saw me he became VERY agressive. I did try the licky treat thing and he got the treat but he never stopped attacking the finger, no matter if there was a treat on it or not (not nibbling, ATTACKING.. he is a very hard biter, and very aggressive. he doesn't ever seem to run, instead he immediately goes on the offensive everytime he sees me or my hands by lunging towards me, slashing, and of course crabbing out of control.. all in conjunction with biting repeatedly)

So I guess my question is... since everyone seems to say that licky treats is the best way to bond, how do I get around the fact that he is ALWAYS sleeping in his pouch??? To me, it doesn't seem like me talking to him in his sleep and carrying him around in his sleep will ever allow me to progress to the next step because the next step would require me to have some interaction with him, but I can't do that while he is sleeping...

Please help... I'm very new at this, and I seemed to be doing okay based on the other posts I posted after I first got him a few days ago but these are some things that have confused me after a few days of observing...

Thanks,
-Jon


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#333154 - 07/07/07 05:24 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I apologize for posting this so many times, this is not the full message, my internet was giving me problems and it said page could not load so I pressed submit again but it seemed to have submitted the posts partially each time. The one with that ends with: -Jon ... is the full post.. I think it posted about 3 times.

Admin please delete this thread all the other ones (except for the full one), I tried to but it would not let me.

Once again I apologize and thanks,
-Jon

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#333157 - 07/07/07 05:25 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
If you've had him for a few days, you can start licky treats and tent time now.

Take the pouch and him in it into the tent. Bring a book. Put the pouch in the tent and completely ignore him. Plan on spending an hour minimum in the tent if he doesn't come out of the pouch. Read aloud until he does. Once he pokes his head out - ignore him. Don't look at him of move in his direction.

By the time he is coming out of his pouch in the tent on his own (it was the third tent time for Rocket) then you can offer mealworms and/or licky treats.

I hang the pouch up in the tent from the ceiling. The gliders play in and out of it. Sometimes they crawl into it on their own and go to sleep. It is their tent time! I try to encourage them to exercise and play. I have tent-time only toys that are exciting to them, as well as feather teasers. But if they want to get in the pouch - I don't force it.

If your glider is a particularly late sleeper, you might want to try waking him up early for a bit. It took a while, but my gliders actually wake up at around dusk now. They are awake and playing by 7:30 or 8. It is SO nice!
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#333161 - 07/07/07 05:30 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ValkyrieMome]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for the advice. I figured I could start a little bit of tent time so I tried it twice now, and he WILL NOT come out of the pouch. He crabs like crazy, and then I just ignored him like you said and all that happened was he went deeper into his pouch and went to sleep.

If I were to take the pouch in the tent area and wake him up, he will only crab and then once I ignore him enough, he will slowly drift back to sleep. He doesn't seem to like coming out of his pouch and exploring during the tent time.

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#333163 - 07/07/07 05:31 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


May I ask how old the glider is?

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#333164 - 07/07/07 05:32 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The glider is about 8 weeks out of pouch...

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#333165 - 07/07/07 05:35 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


He's still young then. As he gets older he should start to wake up sooner. When I first got mine they were about that age and would wake up late. Now they are waking up sooner and I've had them about three months.

are lights on when you are talking to it?

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#333168 - 07/07/07 05:38 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Ah ... well. If he still doesn't come out during the third tent time, don't let him go back to sleep. Pet the outside of the pouch, talk to him, offer him treats at the pouch entrance. Endure the crabbing. Just keep him awake. Put him down from time to time to let him stop crabbing, and to see if he will come out. If he heads back to sleep, start again.

If by the one after that he doesn't come out - that's when I'd roll him out of the pouch and hide the pouch. I use fleece on the floor of the tent, and when I rolled Rocket out of his pouch and hid it, the first couple times he hid under the fleece and went back to sleep.

But at least it wasn't the pouch!

It took a while ... but we got there.
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#333169 - 07/07/07 05:38 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The room is lighted by the sunlight coming through the closed blinds only, and at night I have a dim light turned on...

So should I wake him up early to have tent time every night?

Or should I wait until he starts waking up earlier on his own?--which could me months as you said--before I start the real bonding process?

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#333172 - 07/07/07 05:42 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok... I will have tent time tonight (will be the third) and I won't let him go back to sleep. Being the weekend, I can stay up late so I will start later tonight, and like you said, if by one after he hasn't come out of the pouch I will roll him out and then hide it.

I have tried during the other tent times to place treats near the opening and he never went for them.

I'll let you know how it goes after I have this session tonight!

Thanks,
-Jon

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#333174 - 07/07/07 05:43 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would start waking him up if you want him up earlier. Don't let him go back to sleep until you are done with tent time.

It could be that the light, even though dim, is what is causing him to go back into the pouch as well.

ValkyrieMome has some very good tips you should give a try.

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#333176 - 07/07/07 05:46 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Jon - I swear to you - Rocket was SO cranky and aggressive when I got him that I posted here on GC *in tears* about him more than once. He was SO stubborn. We made NO progress in bonding AT ALL for weeks. Weeks turned into a month. I was SO sad, because I loved him so much, and I had visions of us being best friends.

We did tent time every night. I think I have the scars on my hands to prove it! He would bite and crab and seemed really hateful. Every night. Without fail.

He would accept mealies, and he wouldn't attack me when I was putting food in his cage. But other than that, I was public enemy number one.

Things changed very abruptly when I had had him for 6 weeks. I DO NOT know why - it was all his decision. I did nothing different. I used scent patches, and I used tent time and I offered mealies. And suddenly - 6 weeks into my despair, he spent one entire tent time on my back. I couldn't see him, or reach him - but he was ON me. It wasn't gradual. Just one tent time, my back became the play place of choice.

After that, bonding progressed remarkably quickly. He was still very pouch protective for another 6 weeks, but he began coming to me, allowing me to pet him, playing with me and on me during tent time, etc.

Don't give up. Don't relent. Be loving and firm. You will prevail!
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#333182 - 07/07/07 06:01 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ValkyrieMome]
Mel2mdl Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 4212
Loc: Garland, TX
Another thing you could do if he is a late sleeper - get up early instead. Do tent time around 4 or 5 AM instead of at night.
_________________________
Molly, son & husband:

Chairman Meow
Oscar & Thomas
Sam, Diego, Delilah, Delia :wfb:
Nevada, Noel
Marcel, Dakota, Latte
Dexter, Didi, Almond, Joy and Fitz
:grey:
Karl,Lenny,Jynxie,Chamille, Kee & Mr. Beans in my heart forever.
Teaching teenagers-part joy, part guerilla warfare! :rbridge:

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#333192 - 07/07/07 06:10 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ValkyrieMome]
TracieB Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 4338
Loc: Lenexa, KS
Also, if you have a TV or something on during tent time (even other people around and talking) he may not like the noise. Another thing, I noticed you said in the day the light only comes in through the closed blinds. If there's not enough light for him to distinguish between day and night, he may just be confused about his awake and asleep times. He shouldn't be in direct sunlight, but if his cage is away from the windows, try opening the blinds more during the day. And at only 8 weeks OOP he is still young and may just need more time to adjust.

As ValkyrieMome mentioned, if you don't have something on the tent floor (like fleece or a sheet) you might try that as well. The gliders seem to not like the noise or feeling or something of the vinyl tent flooring.

My gliders took a very long time - months - to start bonding and I cried over it several times because I just knew that they hated me! Eventually they came around and they love their out-of-cage playtime now. So you already know the drill - time, love and patience (oh, and treats don't hurt if you can get him to take them)! With the licky treats, don't let your finger "run dry". Take it away and get get more on it before it's all gone. That might help with the biting. dunno

Good luck with your little guy and let us know how it's going. thumb
_________________________
Tracie
1 wonderful husband - Chris
1 goofy Yorkie - Dexter
2 naughty kitties - Chloe & Alek

Waiting at the Rainbow Bridge:
1 spoiled Yorkie, Myles - April 5, 1993-June 5, 2007
1 sweet :wfb: Xavier - August 5, 2007-May 20, 2010
2 sweet :grey: :grey: Nara & Alkina - February, 2006-November, 2011





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#333205 - 07/07/07 06:23 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: TracieB]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Now this may sound risky, but this is what I do.

When he's asleep in the bonding pouch, you've got the element of surprise! Cup the him on the outside of the pouch with one hand, then just plunge your other one in and cup him with that one too.

I've found that with most of my gliders, a random finger slowly making it's way towards them scares the dickens out of them at first. I think that if you're cupping them they feel more secure and like the warmth from your hand.

I've been bitten a few times doing this, but I've been bitten far MORE times just sticking a finger in LOL!

I dunno if that even made sense haha...

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#333209 - 07/07/07 06:27 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: TracieB]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll just get into a routine starting tonight with "tent" time and make sure he doesn't go to sleep, and I'll just bear with all the crabbing and I'll go ahead and do this until he comes around. I can see Chip being like Rocket and not wanting to come around for over a month.

As far as licky treats go and running dry, I don't think he ever intentionally gets the treat he basically just snaps and me and then so happens to get applesauce on his nose to lick off. That doesn't seem to help with the aggression or the snapping though, lol.

I will lay fleece on the floor, but tent time isn't literally tent time with me. I have a walk-in closet that is basically the size of a tent that I have cleared out for that purpose.

I'll keep you all posted, and let you know how things go tonight!

-Jon

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#333225 - 07/07/07 06:50 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Jon - All of us understand your frustration. Let me tell you about my Tosca.

She was supposedly 10 weeks oop when I got her. Now that I know more, I believe she was younger. She had just been taken away from her mother that very day. She was SCARED TO DEATH. Here she was, just a baby. All alone. Strange people, sounds, smells - nothing familiar. She cried for two weeks. It was heartbreaking. She crabbed, hissed and lunged at me if she even thought I was coming near her. She was so frightened that she couldnt sleep when I was carrying her around in the pouch - always on guard. She bit me hard, drawing blood on more than one occasion. I came very close to taking her back more than once.

It took MONTHS for her to come around. I have had her almost a year now and she will allow me to pet her. She loves it when I am on the computer - she will come up to the top of the pouch and watch me. She still "nips" me every now and then - but its not a hard bite. I still cant pick her up or I will get bitten. When in the tent, she does play with me - she does climb on me and not just on my back. She comes up to my face and has even climbed onto my head to glide to the other side of the tent. She was the first to give me a facehug!

You baby is so young. He doesnt know what your intentions are. He probably thinks he is gong to be eaten. Please understand how frightened he is. Like everyone else has stated - gliders do things at their own pace. It you try to hurry him - it will only prolong things. Take the advice you have been given here and do the tent time and LOTS of licky treats! Dont give up on him. He will learn to trust you and when that happens - you will have the best pet in the whole wide world!!!

I, also had another glider when I got Tosca. Tilly was very gentle and sweet from the beginning - so Tosca was a real shock to me!

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#333227 - 07/07/07 06:56 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
TracieB Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 4338
Loc: Lenexa, KS
Do you have toys and things hanging in the closet to intice him to play? Mine seem to like braided fleece ropes to climb on, and other things that they can climb or jump on. (Of course if he won't even stick his head out of the pouch, he'll never see any of the toys!)

Usually the finding of licky treats by snapping at you helps them to realize there's something good there and then actually lick! sounds like Chip doesn't understand the "lick" part of licky treats! roflmao

I'm sure he'll come around when he gets ready, then he'll realize how much fun tent time (or closet time) can be!
_________________________
Tracie
1 wonderful husband - Chris
1 goofy Yorkie - Dexter
2 naughty kitties - Chloe & Alek

Waiting at the Rainbow Bridge:
1 spoiled Yorkie, Myles - April 5, 1993-June 5, 2007
1 sweet :wfb: Xavier - August 5, 2007-May 20, 2010
2 sweet :grey: :grey: Nara & Alkina - February, 2006-November, 2011





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#333252 - 07/07/07 07:44 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: TracieB]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Jon- that's how licky treats with Rocket started. He'd try to lunge and bite me and choke on a mouthful of strawberry yogurt instead! He got it pretty quickly. He likes strawberry yogurt!
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#333318 - 07/07/07 09:44 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ValkyrieMome]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Okay, I just finished the tent time in which I took the advice you all had given me here, especially ValkyrieMome because Rocket sounds like he has a VERY similar personality to Chip.

I'll break it up into different parts and describe everything so you can give me some pointers. I also have some questions at the end because I did observe some strange behavior that I did not expect. It is pretty long though so please bare with me I am very new at this...

I. Preparing Tent Time

I went into my "tent time" closet and laid out a piece of fleece. On top of the fleece I put a dish of half water/half apple juice, and another dish with some fresh fruits in it. I had a thing of apple sauce handy in the rare case that he might be somewhat cooperative.

II. Retrieving Chip

Chip, as usual, was sleeping inside of his pouch so I grabbed the pouch with no problem (deep sleeper) and placed it on the fleece. I have observed previous nights that the first thing Chip does when he wakes up is goes straight to food and water, so I had an idea. Rather than fighting with him to get out of his pouch, I figured I would have nothing to lose by trying to "toothpaste" him out of the pouch while he was sleeping, since he is in fact a deep sleeper.

Surprisingly, it worked! Chip woke up just as I had finished reversing the pouch. As he came out of it, he looked back at me and started looking around but DIDN'T crab! I was amazed by that point and I didn't wanna ruin it so I got into my corner of the closet and began making phone calls so I could be preoccupied with something, and at the same time, he could hear and get used to my voice even more.

III. The Session

Just as I had hoped, after he looked around (would not leave the blanket of fleece, which was okay because it was large enough in size for now), he went straight to the food dish and started chomping on the fruit as I talked away on the phone. He didn't seem very scared at all and didn't keep THAT close of an eye on me as he sometimes did in his cage and especially when I wake him up inside of his pouch. This went on for a while and he started exploring more along the fleece and then just stopped for a while.

After he stopped and was just sitting there, I decided since he was doing so well I would try the applesauce licky treat idea. I put it up to him and he went up and sniffed it but didn't take any of it and backed up a little. He then started to groom himself a little bit and my hand moved a little and I guess it startled him so he flinched and then started crabbing away. He then walked around some more, ate somemore fruit and did that for the remainder of tent time.

*** III. Putting him BACK ***

And here comes the hard part that I did not see coming. When it was time to end tent time, I put the pouch next to him and he DID NOT want to go in. I even took the new piece of fleece out and he STILL did not want to go in. In fact, he would walk away from the pouch after he sniffed it. I tried various ways to get him in the pouch and he WOULD NOT. He even started attacking the pouch as I held it and crabbing and he was terrified of the pouch and my hands, so much that he pooped several times as he was darting all over the closet trying to get away from the pouch. I didn't make any sudden movements either, I was more just trying to 'coax' him into getting into the pouch by putting fruit inside of it but NOTHING was working.

I got the cage and placed it into the closet because I was hoping that if i put the cage in there, and opened the door he would crawl all over it and eventually find the door and come in. You could tell he was still terrified by this point, and had just pooped twice along the edge of the walls and then he climbed onto the cage until he was on top of it. After crawling all over the cage I knew my plan wasn't working so I decided the way I would get him back in there was to take a T-shirt, lay it flat, wait for him to go on it, and then slowly fold it up to make a new temporary "pouch" for him that I could place into the cage, open up and let him go.

Here's the interesting behavior I was talking about, that kinda worries me...

I put the T-shirt on top of the cage right next to where he was crawling around trying to find a way out of the madness. He would sniff the T-shirt but not go on top of it. By this time, I noticed he wasn't having much of a reaction to my hands as he normally does, so as he was walking around on top of the cage, I slowly got my hand on him and began petting him. It didn't seem like he was accepting me, it just seemed like he was so scared he found it useless to crab by that point coz he had been doing it so much.

But anyway, he kept on crawling around as if trying to find an end to the situation, and not minding my hand. The part that worries me is that I hope I didn't frighten him so much that it actually *hurt* the bonding process because you could tell he was terrified even as I was petting him. That was very unusual behavior for him too, for him NOT to crab and to let me pet him as he was walking around.

IV. The Catch and the Conclusion

Chip crawled down the side of the cage and finally found another pouch that I had not taken into consideration because I had made it out of an old pants back pocket and just had it there but did not plan on using it for anything. It had some cotton stuffed into it and chip burrowed his way DEEP into that small pocket and just stayed that and would NOT budge. He began crabbing a little bit and then tensed up and kept his head as far down into that pocket as possible. He even pooped again in that thing. Keep in mind I was trying my best NOT to traumatize him, I was moving slowly and wasn't being quite the monster he was making me out to be lol.

I finally got that little pocket, put it in the cage and toothpasted him out into the cage. I then prepared his food and when I came back he began crabbing at me from outside the cage. I just sat there and talked to him as he crabbed at me and slashed towards me, until he gave up and went up the side of the wall in the cage at basically the farthest point away from me. He crabbed no more as I placed his food in the cage and let him be up until now. He has been eating his food since I've been writing this long posting. I'm hoping he doesn't forever get turned off by that pouch, he shouldn't because it is the only pouch in his cage now. I don't think he will because yesterday he had negative feelings towards that pouch as well, and when I woke up he was sound asleep in it so hopefully that will be the case tomorrow. I don't think it would be possible for me to have "tent time" if he were not in the pouch.

Alright well that's how the tent time went, please let me know what you think.

Thanks, and I apologize for the extremely long post and appreciate it to whoever reads it...
-Jon

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#333328 - 07/07/07 10:00 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
I may have answers ... or at least comments. Have to think some more.

But I wanted to thank you for breaking your post up into paragraphs. I know it seems like a little thing - but it really makes it so much easier to read!

I don't mind long posts, I just have a hard time with huge blocks of unbroken type!
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#333334 - 07/07/07 10:16 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ValkyrieMome]
krysKritters Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 2664
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
I don't think you "hurt" the bonding process. While chip needs to learn to trust you... You need to learn to trust yourself.
Yes you do need to bond at his pace but it sounds as if you are very nervous. (and there is nothing wrong with that! It takes a while to build your confidence, Trust me. My first glider knew I was not confident and she used it to her advantage! They are smarter than you think!)
Trust yourself, but also look to chip for "clues" He probley senses that your nervous and that makes him a little nervous too.

I think your doing great! You obviously love this little guy a lot to be going through all this for him!

Also, about your "toothpasting" him out of the pouch (love the terminology, BTW roflmao ) PM me your addy. I will send you a blossom pouch from my site for you to try. It may help with the problem of getting him out of the pouch and him being a little "pouch protective"

If you want to see one go to my site (in my signature) and go to the "pouch" page. (There are also a few on sale on suggiebay, in case you like them and want more wink )
_________________________
Krys DeRosa
Godfather of the NY Glider Mafia

KrysKritters.comcloud9

A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world.

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#333337 - 07/07/07 10:19 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Ok- let me start off by saying -- I don't know!

I only know my own experience, and that doesn't make me an expert by any means. Someone with more glider experience might completely disagree with what I think.

My initial response was "oh, poor Chip!" However, upon thinking about it further, I realized that, although Chip was terrified towards the end, this was not a bad experience for him. He expected the worst. He expected the hand of death. It didn't come. The hand that did come was gentle and sweet and soothing to him. He was too terrified to recognize it - but somewhere in him, it registered.

He might be sitting in his cage or pouch now, mentally feeling himself up and down and amazed that he is still alive. But - essentially that has to register with him! He is still alive.

I personally don't think it set your bonding back.

It actually sounds like before he became scared, he might have been stunned, or too sleepy to think straight.

Great idea making phone calls! I like it!

Does he have toys to play with in the closet? Are there things he can do besides interact with you, eat, or groom himself? Mine have very many tent only toys, that I rotate. I think I mentioned feather teasers, too. That is a tent only toy. Someone else mentioned long braids of fleece - I have those hanging from the top of my tent and I hang other things off of them.

Ending tent time is a challenge for MOST glider owners! That's why I hang a pouch in the tent now. Tent time is over when they crawl back in to nap - otherwise I'll NEVER get them out of the tent. Now I'm doing tent time with 4 - I have to wait until most of them have calmed down, and then corral the rest.

I decided that the least traumatic way to end tent time when they didn't end it voluntarily was to sort of herd them into a pouch. Putting the pouch on the floor, very open, I sort of direct them towards it using my hands. Of course, this only works as long as they try to evade your hand. A couple of times, when it was just Rocket and Linus, I ended tent time when they both were on me. I just got out of the tent, then went and stood near their cages and sort of coaxed them to jump to their cages. Since I don't feed mine before tent time, they are usually ok about getting back in the cage.

Ending tent time - whether the glider is tame or not - is a challenge, in other words. Eventually, as he trusts you more, it will get easier. Perhaps you could roll him up into the fleece on the floor?

I hear how his being so scared that he allowed you to touch him has worried you. But, I really think that, ultimately, it is a good thing. Not his being scared. But ... well, you know ...
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#333342 - 07/07/07 10:30 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ValkyrieMome]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Aw, I think you're doing great. =]

I don't have anything to say, because I'm not as experienced, but your plan went a lot smoother than mine, so I think you're going to be fine. bonding takes time, but I actually think you are moving along nicely. Plus I'm impressed by the long post, I wouldn't have the patience to type all of that.

Anyways, congrats again.

If you ever have questions, ill be happy to try and help.
I'm at the same point with my new girl Shay. =P

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#333349 - 07/07/07 10:33 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


grin honestly i think you're doing fine, like most of the people here said it takes time, patience isn't one of my big things eigther, lol, but time is what it's going to take and if i remember correctly you haven't had him that long eigther. I think that you should keep doing the tent time and gently talking to him and if you have trouble again with getting him, my rosanne, is scared of people too, i use the pouch inside out and gently pick her up then i let her crawl onto me and turn the pouch the right way, then i gently place it up for her to crawl into, that's if you can get him to do that, if not when you've gently got him in the pouch, just put it back into the cage and wait till he comes out and turn it right. also maybe have two pouches. Honestly though i think overall you're doing fine and don't worry so much! he's young and scared and again time is what he needs, maybe more than we'd like but that's how i've gotton my rosanne to come out without lunging, it's taken two years! thumb

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#333373 - 07/07/07 11:03 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Two years? Wow.

I could see chip being the type to take two years to come around... I guess I was unfortunate in that in the shipment my friend and I ordered, him and his wife are already able to hold her in their hands and groom them. Chip definitely isn't warming up that quick.

After writing that long post I went near his cage, and he is still afraid of that pouch. Instead he found a corner and is huddled up in it. Hopefully he will get in the pouch tonight because like I said I don't think I can do tent time tomorrow without him being in it.

Anyways, when I sat near his cage to talk to him, he just kept crabbing. It was more than usual this time. He was shaking like crazy, crabbing even more than normal, and WOULD NOT stop. I didn't want to flee because I figure that would teach him that if he crabs then I will go away. So I ended up sitting there for quite a while until he stopped crabbing. He would even try to flee while inside of the cage and I was on the outside of the cage, and whenever he came close to the pouch he would even start crabbing and slashing /biting at it too.

Like I said, I can see Chip being one of the S.G. that take years for them to come around.

Hopefully not that long...

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#333377 - 07/07/07 11:07 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Hmmm. sounds like he certainly carries a grudge!

Krys has offered you a blossom pouch - that will be a huge step in the right direction!

Also - I always have a choice of at least two sleeping pouches in the cages all the time.

I don't think he will take years. However, I think you were actually lucky that he was too scared to fight with you. You got to give him a positive interaction with no biting, etc. I don't want him to always be scared, but I hope that all of your interactions are positive!
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#333378 - 07/07/07 11:07 PM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: krysKritters]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: krysKritters
I
If you want to see one go to my site (in my signature) and go to the "pouch" page. (There are also a few on sale on suggiebay, in case you like them and want more wink )


Thanks for the link to the blossom pouches! That looks like it will work out for me... Easy for him to find the entrance, and easy for me to take him out.

I have already ordered one.

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#333513 - 07/08/07 06:43 AM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, I definitely feel like I've actually taken a step back in the whole process. When I woke up this morning, Chip was in his pouch... he had just got in there though, so he was still awake (I wanted him in his pouch today, so we can have tent time again tonight). He crabbed at the very sound of my voice this time, and ESPECIALLY when I got near the cage and whenever I went to take his food out and change his water. That's when he would poke his head out of the pouch and start lunging and snapping towards me.

I just kept talking some and then dropped a small piece of fresh fruit where his head was coming out to snap and then he stopped crabbing. By that time I was done changing his water so I just closed the cage and left. I'm sure he's about to go to sleep soon.

*sigh* ... we'll see how tonight goes.

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#333515 - 07/08/07 06:57 AM Re: Confused about some things... [Re: ]
mattysmom Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1234
Loc: Tarpon Springs, FL
Hey Jon, we'll get you through this. Chip sounds like a scared little guy. I use honey on my hand to help stop the biting and a gentle, soothing voice. Once he has been in his pouch enough, it will develop his personal scent. I borrow some of the glider's own scent and rub it on my hand before approaching a glider. It sounds like you two could use a lote of tent time so he gets used to you - scent, sound, movements, etc. All of mine have come around - I'm sure Chip will too. And you'll have a great sense of accomplishment! And a great little friend too.
_________________________
Moira & Matty & my zoo

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