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#338882 - 07/14/07 07:38 PM Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome?
tngliderlover Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 548
Loc: Gallatin, TN (near Nashville)
I took Gizmo to the vet last week because her right eye was infected and swollen shut. There was also a swelling underneath that eye that felt real hard. All of this happened to her almost overnight. The vet that I use specializes in exotics. He said he wasn't sure what the swelling was without doing x-rays, and other tests which would cost upwards of $500. He said "it didn't look good" and recommended that I just give her pain medication to keep her from scratching her eye and the swollen area. So I've been giving her 2 drops of Naproxen each day for a week now. He did say that she had an ulcerated cornea and was in a lot of pain. She's not getting any better. After reading some info on lumpy jaw syndrome, I was wondering if this could be what is wrong with her. I had her on the Brisky diet which I now know is a "no no".I know she needs to go back to the vet, but wonder if any of you had experienced this in your gliders and if you did, did the swelling go away and did their eyesight recover? She is eating just fine but spends most of her time sleeping, not playing as much as she did before. I feel like crying every time I get her out because she is such a pitiful sight. I hate seeing her suffer.
I hope someone out there has some experience with this to help me with my question.
Thanks
Lynn
_________________________
~Lynn~

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#338900 - 07/14/07 08:09 PM Re: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: tngliderlover]
Marz Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 708
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Sorry but unless you dont at least get a culture & sensitivity test done, and get her placed on the most effective antibiotics, it will probably not improve.

Your vet is right. It is hard to determine the cause of something like this, without further exploratory exams and possible xrays. It could be a range of things including dental issues. Unfortunately to do these sort of tests, it does get expensive as usually it involves the glider to be anaethatised for these test to be done. It can get very expensive but hopefully some basic tests will pinpoint the problem without getting to the more expensive ones. In my case, unfortunately it took all the tests plus some before we found an answer.

My glider had an identical problem, and without going into too much detail, she had the most knowledgable of care, had ALL the tests done, four anaesthetics, xrays plus numerous antibiotic treatments and the end result was there was no improvement till they actually removed the eye as the last resort. The moment her eye was removed, her health improved dramatically and all infection and swelling disappeared. The tissue surrounding the back of her eye was dead and the hub of the infection based there where the antibiotics was not able to penetrate fully and do it's job.

This IS a probably a worst case scenario and Im hoping your glider has a less serious reason for the swelling and eye damage. However, unless at least some antibiotic treatment is started, it may got a whole lot worse so at least get some basic tests done and some antibiotics started.

It's nearly a year since my glider's issues. She copes well with one eye. She has become very spoilt and a much loved member of the family.

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#338934 - 07/14/07 09:27 PM Re: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: Marz]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Naproxen, isn't the same as OTC pain meds? That isn't going to help your glider's eye. It could be just the eye, dental or sinus. Only the vet can determine that though. Will your vet not check the poor glider out and at least give him meds for this?
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#338958 - 07/14/07 09:50 PM Re: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: SugarBlossoms]
Winston_N_I
Unregistered


Another thing that I've seen, working in vet Medicine, is dogs and cat's that come in like that and have something lodged deep down in their eye!

Or also it could be an inflamed or infected scratch across the eye! Was that ruled out? Either way, there's gonna need to be antibiotics given! That's a must! so get that little one back to the vet no matter you have to do to make it happen! It doesn't take long for infection to take over their little bodies so the less time you waiste the better!

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#338965 - 07/14/07 09:54 PM Re: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: ]
dquaife
Unregistered


Yep Naproxen is the medicine found in Aleeve. I am allergic to it frown

Daniel

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#338970 - 07/14/07 09:59 PM Re: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: ]
Winston_N_I
Unregistered


Naproxen is a HEAVY Pain med! It's not even given to humans unless by perscription in it's full strength!!

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#338980 - 07/14/07 10:07 PM Re: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: ]
tngliderlover Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 548
Loc: Gallatin, TN (near Nashville)
Well, one thing's for sure, I'm taking her back to the vet!
I'll have more knowledge this time around and will take her to another vet if I feel she's not getting the help she needs.
_________________________
~Lynn~

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#338992 - 07/14/07 10:21 PM Re: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: tngliderlover]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I strongly suggest getting her on antibiotics as soon as possible. There is an obvious infection and without treatment it can and mostly likely will go systemic (throughout her blood system) and be fatal. I would urge you to try to contact Xfilefan about this as she has had experience with this and can best advise you on what types of antibiotics and proceedures to have done.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#339010 - 07/14/07 10:38 PM Re: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: ]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: dquaife
Yep Naproxen is the medicine found in Aleeve. I am allergic to it frown

Daniel


Aleve tore my stomach all to pieces when I tried it once. UGH I remember where I knew the Naproxen from now.

_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#339030 - 07/14/07 11:03 PM Re: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: SugarBlossoms]
dquaife
Unregistered


It helps a lot of people with arthritis (sp?) but I just can't take it. Part of 1% of population that has "adverse side effects" on. Nasty stuff -- hopefully they can find something better for the poor glider?!

Daniel

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#339199 - 07/15/07 03:53 AM Re: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
NO MORE NAPROXEN!!
Plus, no matter what the vet says (because the glider has been on naproxen sodium) DO NOT USE METACAM AT ALL

(I'm not yelling, it's very, very important! They can cause permanent liver and kidney damage if used more than 3-4 days, and this glider has already been on it way too long frown )

The eye may be infected enough secondary to the jaw to have to be removed, but infection needs to start being treated first. I have a vet who will consult, if yours won't cooperate, I highly suggest finding another one who will.

Infections in the jaw and sinus frequently (almost always) harbor anaerobic bacteria-that needs treated along with any others that may be in there. There may be more than one kind, also. I'll make recommendations as if this were one of mine.

Most abscesses (the lump) can be cultured. If there is a pocket, it HAS to be opened to drain, either via a removed tooth, if that is the cause, or externally by the vet lancing it, or both. A sample of any drainage or pus will need to be sent for a Culture and Sensitivity (C&S)...but DO NOT wait for that to start antibiotics. Those can be changed if the culture/sensitivity results indicate it's necessary later.

The facial infections I've dealt with have responded best so far to a combination of CLINDAMYCIN and FLAGYL (aka Metro or Metronidazole)-this combo covers a range of bacteria that includes gram positive, gram negative, and anaerobic. When Riker's was bad, and hard to treat, we also had him on Baytril along with the other 2. Because of the severity of your little one's infection, and the fact these are notoriously hard to treat, which means they infect bone and take longer to cure, I would go with a course of treatment between 4 and 8 weeks in length-NO LESS. Here are the names of the meds without all the clutter:

Baytril
Clindamycin
Flagyl

Buprenex or Torb for pain

The vet may need to remove the eye-there is another member whose little one lost his infected eye and has been doing very well (somewhere in Health)-I'll try and look that up as soon as I have a chance, or you can try a search.

At this point I would not delay-infection, if it hasn't started already, can go systemic and kill quickly. Your little one is two weeks into this without adequate treatment, and there is NO more time to play with at this point. NONE. Get into someone who will consult if needed, and get this glider on the proper meds now. That may mean an ER vet for meds in the morning, then a regular one Monday to follow up.

I am going to PM you my vet's emergency number for an ER vet to use, a regular vet can call the office on Monday (that will follow). Print this out and take it with you.

Dr. Laurel Harris
Wasatch Exotic Pet Care
Salt Lake City, UT
801-485-4736

Sending PM next.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#339200 - 07/15/07 03:59 AM Re: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: Xfilefan]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I wanted to add-either Baytril or Clindamycin can be used with the Flagyl, but Clindamycin is better on infections into bone, so if not using all 3, go with the Clindamycin. The Flagyl is the one that goes after the anaerobics.

Topicals to look at if the abscess is opened from outside the face include neosporin, silver sulfazadine cream, and diluted betadine.


Edited by Xfilefan (07/15/07 04:01 AM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#339207 - 07/15/07 06:26 AM Re: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: Xfilefan]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Please follow Jen's (Xfilefan's) advice in regards to this. She has a lot of experience with this type of infection in gliders. Unless the infection is properly treated, it can either 1) kill your glider, or 2) continue to recur for months & months on end.
I have had experience with this type of infection in two of my gliders - following Jen's advice is the best option for treatment! I know - I've been there!
Please keep us posted on Gizmo's progress. We're here for you hug2 hug2 hug2
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#340311 - 07/16/07 04:37 PM Re: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: sugarglidersuz]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Any update on this little one? worried
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#342022 - 07/18/07 02:12 PM Re: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: Xfilefan]
tngliderlover Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 548
Loc: Gallatin, TN (near Nashville)
Sorry for the delay in giving you this update..... computer problem! After 3 vet visits this week, I finally found a vet who is helpful and willing to listen to me. I just got back from the "helpful" exotic vet. Gizmo's abcess was drained under her eye; her mouth and teeth look just fine. Right now we want to try to save her eye and keep the eye and any abcess infection from spreading. I take her back on Friday for a re-check.
The vet prescribed Baytril, and for her eye BNP (Baccitracin-Neomycin-Polymyxin.

Thanks for all your support out there, especially Jen who has shared her expertise and time to follow up.
Bless you all!
From Gizmo and Lynn


Bless you all!
_________________________
~Lynn~

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#343748 - 07/20/07 04:47 PM Re: [b]UPDATE[/: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: tngliderlover]
tngliderlover Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 548
Loc: Gallatin, TN (near Nashville)
The good news is that Gizmo should recover from the infection. The bad news is that her eye will have to be removed. The eye removal surgery will be Monday morning. Bless her heart, she has been SO GOOD through all her ordeal with this infection. The vet commented how sweet she was. Gizmo is on Buprenex for pain and she will stay on the Baytril for the next 5 days (unless the vet changes that after the surgery).
Please pray that she will do well during the surgery. I don't know what I'd do if I lost her, I love her so much. mlove
Ube has been with her at each of the vet visits and it seemed to make her happy that her buddy was there.
I'll let you know how she does after the surgery. I'm glad that there are some GC posts about one-eyed gliders and how well they do after losing an eye.
I haven't met any of you in person but I feel very "warm & fuzzy" that I'm part of your family.
Lynn
_________________________
~Lynn~

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#343752 - 07/20/07 04:49 PM Re: [b]UPDATE[/: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: tngliderlover]
glidergrl1513 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 5725
Loc: Upstate NY
Praying for a speedy, full recovery! I'm so glad to hear that she'll be okay. Gliders can live basically normal lives with only one eye, so she'll be fine. There is a post about it now under Special Needs if you'd like to take a look. Thanks for the update on her heart

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#343859 - 07/20/07 06:52 PM Re: [b]UPDATE[/: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: glidergrl1513]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
hug2 hug2 and prayers to you and Gizmo! I'm impressed that you persued with finding another vet. If you had not done so, things would have gotten alot worse. I can feel in your words how much your love her! I just wanted to let you know that your a wonderful mommy and I will be praying for her on Monday. heart

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#343871 - 07/20/07 07:10 PM Re: [b]UPDATE[/: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: LSardou]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Awww. I'm so sorry she's going to loose her eye - but that's such a small thing compared to how bad it could be.

I had a one eyed cat who never seemed to notice (he just didn't like the dog coming up on his left side quietly). And I've been reading about the one eyed glider her on GC.

I'm keeping a good thought for Gizmo. And I'm so glad that Ube was able to go along and give her comfort.
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#343894 - 07/20/07 07:56 PM Re: [b]UPDATE[/: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: ValkyrieMome]
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 5965
Loc: Northeast Indiana
Hi,Lynn!

As soon as Gizmo recovers from all of this, you'll need to take her to Clarksville, TN to visit a little glider named "One-Eyed Jack" and his wonderful owner (Bourbon). One huge piece of advice that she'd give you I'll pass on: THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A HANDICAPPED GLIDER...THERE ARE ONLY GLIDERS WHO ARE HANDICAPPED BY THEIR HUMANS!

Or perhaps you and she and Ube can plan to come to the Gliders Anonymous Get-Together in October. It's around the 12th-13th in (or near) Nashville...sorry I'm being so "space cadet" about the dates & such: I think my brains got put in the blender with the BML ingredients this morning! I'll get some more details and send you a Private Message with the details.

At any rate, you have A BUNCH of glider buddies surrounding you...I'm jealous! tant
_________________________
Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,
5 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry

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#343915 - 07/20/07 08:26 PM Re: [b]UPDATE[/: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: minkasmom]
tngliderlover Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 548
Loc: Gallatin, TN (near Nashville)
Thanks again for all the kindness!
Yes, I'd to meet "One Eyed Jack", along with Gizmo who we could call "One Eyed Jill"!(See, you folks definitely lift my spirits-I still have some humor left).
Please keep me posted on any suggie getaways in the Nashville or Southern Kentucky area. I'm anxious to meet other glider parents and their furry kids.
Hugs & Kisses,
Gizmo("One Eyed Jill") & Lynn
_________________________
~Lynn~

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#346134 - 07/24/07 02:23 PM Re: [b]UPDATE[/: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: tngliderlover]
tngliderlover Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 548
Loc: Gallatin, TN (near Nashville)


Gizmo had her eye removed today. The vet just called and said everything went well. I'll be picking her up in a few hours....I'll be SO GLAD to have her back home!
jump
Other than an e-collar, is there any way to prevent her from scratching her eye excessively? The vet said the e-collar would be too stressful for her and that the pain med should help. Gizmo will have a 3 day supply of pain med, and she'll continue the Baytril.
_________________________
~Lynn~

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#346280 - 07/24/07 06:08 PM Re: [b]UPDATE[/: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: tngliderlover]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
You can try the pain med, but if it doesn't work, the collar is the last line of defense. If she doesn't leave it alone she could cause damage that can't be fixed. Stressful or not, it's better than having that socket torn open.

I'm glad she came through so well. Keep us updated! smile
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#346312 - 07/24/07 06:53 PM Re: [b]UPDATE[/: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: Xfilefan]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
hug2 hug2 for you and Gizmo! I'm so happy to see she is okay!! I've been reading this thread scared of the outcome. Yay!!! She's home!!!
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

Top
#346313 - 07/24/07 06:55 PM Re: [b]UPDATE[/: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: SugarBlossoms]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Can you get pain meds for more than 3 days? That runs it till Friday and vets can be hard to get ahold of on the weekend if you run out and she is hurting. 3 days doesn't seem long enough but I don't know.
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

Top
#346339 - 07/24/07 07:24 PM Re: [b]UPDATE[/: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: SugarBlossoms]
tngliderlover Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 548
Loc: Gallatin, TN (near Nashville)
Originally Posted By: SugarBlossoms
Can you get pain meds for more than 3 days? That runs it till Friday and vets can be hard to get ahold of on the weekend if you run out and she is hurting. 3 days doesn't seem long enough but I don't know.


That's a good point about the weekend vet situation. I'll followup with my vet to make sure I have enough pain medication to get her through the weekend just in case..so far she hasn't messed with her eye at all...I think she's still feeling like she's in "la la land" from the pain meds the vet gave her.

off_topic My vet allowed me to pay half of the costs now and the other half within 2 weeks. They are great to work with!
_________________________
~Lynn~

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#348807 - 07/28/07 02:49 AM Re: [b]UPDATE[/: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: tngliderlover]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
How is she?
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

Top
#349023 - 07/28/07 03:30 PM Re: [b]UPDATE[/: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: SugarBlossoms]
tngliderlover Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 548
Loc: Gallatin, TN (near Nashville)
Sugar Blossoms-Thanks for asking about GIZMO. She's doing real well, eating good, and she's off the pain medicine as of yesterday evening. I've been putting the Baytril antibiotic in a little diluted Gliderade and she licks it all up. Before the Gliderade method, it was getting difficult to give her meds by mouth syringe because she was fighting when she got the meds that way...she wised up to it and kept spitting it out. The Gliderade way is a piece of cake!
The stitches in her eye are still intact even though she continues to groom it. I'm using an antibiotic eye ointment to make sure the outside of the lower eye orbit doesn't get infected.
I just finished giving her some mealworms and she gobbled them up! She's glad to be back with her buddy-UBE. cloud9
_________________________
~Lynn~

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#349030 - 07/28/07 03:49 PM Re: [b]UPDATE[/: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: tngliderlover]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
hug2 Bless her little heart! I am so happy to hear that she is coming along with no problems. Thanks for the update, I've been wondering how she's been doing. heart

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#349044 - 07/28/07 04:14 PM Re: [b]UPDATE[/: Could this be lumpy jaw syndrome? [Re: LSardou]
HelloSugar
Unregistered


Glad to hear she is doing well. I used to take Naproxen for heavy monthly cycle cramping, and someone else I knew took it for back pain. I didn't know it was an animal pain reliever as well! I learn something new every day!

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