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#35316 - 01/31/05 12:20 PM Leucistic Geneology, Leucistic breeders pls. read.
Anonymous
Unregistered


If you own a leucistic or own a leucistic het I will need to talk with you either in email or over the phone. PM me and I will give my phone number to you. I am compiling a comprhensive geneology of the leucistic line. There are three main goals for this:

1) Knowing the complete geneoloy of the leucistic line will prevent unwanted inbreeding and lower the possibility of sterility and other genetic factors from poluting the line.

2) The Geneology will be key at tracing the lineage of new leucistics that might randomly come out in the population and so determine if a new line has emerged

3) Knowing who has what leucistics will show the capacity of the breeder for producing leucistics and so give that breeder credability when a claim is made that a leucistic het or possible het is for sale and prevent less reputable people from caliming to be able to produce what they do not have the capability of doing so.

I will need the cooperation of all the breeders who are dealing in this color to contact me. I will honor your privacy requests, if that is what you want. Please contact me in private so I can discuss this issue with you further on an individual basis.

What I will need to work out though is how to define colors. I will only be labing the homozygotes on the geneology hets will be labled as normals. Current homozygotic colors:

Leucistic
Cinnamon
White Faced Blonde
Blonde
White Tip
Platinum
Ring Tail
Buttercream
True Albino (W/O markings)
Diluted Albino (with markings)
Melanistic (no known example)
White Mosaic (Patches of white on a normal coat)
Powdered White (White and grey hairs evenly distributed
Calico

Please let me know if I have missed any homozygotic colors

Ushuaia


Edited by Ushuaia (01/31/05 03:34 PM)

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#35317 - 01/31/05 12:27 PM Re: Leucistic Geneology, Leucistic breeders pls. read. [Re: ]
jmi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 5233
Loc: cuero Texas
I think you got all of them.
_________________________
In a realtionship with the man i am going to marry I am in Cuero Texas with 3 kids. I am the mother of 4 kids and the soon to be step mother of 5 more. I have only one set of gliders.
My kids are
Sandra 16,Alex 12, Juanita 7 and Kathy 4
Whitney 13, Taylor 11, Charity 9 Brent 10 and Austin 5

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#35318 - 01/31/05 03:35 PM Re: Leucistic Geneology, Leucistic breeders pls. r [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Some leucistics are bred to normals, won't labelling hets as normals possibly allow for some confusion?
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

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#35319 - 01/31/05 03:56 PM Re: Leucistic Geneology, Leucistic breeders pls. r [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


At what point do I stop labling them as hets? The geneology will still prove they are hets. A card will be created that has each gliders info on it and it will state what it is in terms of hets, it would be too much to put it all on a geneology and it would be redundant.

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#35320 - 01/31/05 05:42 PM Re: Leucistic Geneology [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"blue"] Where do you place Priscilla's Lion and the Black Beauty in the general scheme of things?? [/]

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#35321 - 01/31/05 05:46 PM Re: Leucistic Geneology [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I too am curious to know what randy has asked, seeing as buttercreams are most of the time very hard to distinguish between normal grays. Some people classify them as having a more yellow head, or if their gliders are scent stained. Good point Randy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> I have charted my leucistic het's lineage, and paired them up, thanks to Sheila, Judie and Priscilla.

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#35322 - 01/31/05 05:55 PM Re: Leucistic Geneology [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Also, you don't have chocolates on there. Are you going to consider them Cinnamons as well? And. I'm curious how you plan to distinguish the differeent color variations without setting a standard. If you want copies of the information I drew up on color variations last year, feel free to e-mail me.

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#35323 - 02/01/05 12:27 AM Re: Leucistic Geneology [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


bump!

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#35324 - 02/01/05 12:33 AM Re: Leucistic Geneology [Re: ]
Sheila Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/05/00
Posts: 5363
Loc: Ok
I don't consider chocolates a specialized color. If you went to a large breeding facility, they would have a lot of chocolates. I have three of them and don't even care that I have them. I bought them as normal gliders, not as chocolates. Two of them started off gray and turned chocolate. I think the buttercreme should be taken off as they are becoming more of the norm also.
_________________________
ToandFro Gliders

http://www.toandfrogliders.com

USDA Licensed breeder for 12 years and counting!

WE SELL THE STEALTH WHEEL

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#35325 - 02/01/05 01:01 AM Re: Leucistic Geneology [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Update:

I have updated the geneology and it is current but for a few breeders I have yet to talk to. Also I am only including the apparent color, that is to say only the color of the animal and not the heterozygote. The heterozygote will be listed as Standard if it looks like a normal glider. If the glider is het for leucistic and is a cinnamon color then it will be listed as a cinnamon. The geneology will make apparent what is and is not a het without me having to state it. Also I will make Index cards that will be organized according to the unique ID number that will be given each glider. These index cards will include Original breeder contact information, Current Owner information, its zygosity (het for leucistic, cinnamon, ect...) OOP Date, Sex, Name, Death date, Cause of death, number of sucessful litters.

Randy:

All variations will need to be standardized. I however do not consider black beauty or chocolate a color though such information will be refered to on the index cards and not on the geneology. Only those I have included on the list above will be on the geneology. I will be going to my genetics college professors and to other snake breeders and might reclassify the names according to the correct classifications.

All information that could effect the color variation should be included but on the index cards, only apparent color will be listed on the geneology. It could prove invaluable for explaining the emergence of new interesting colors, or breedings that lead to a lethal gene factor.

Ushuaia

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#35326 - 02/01/05 03:22 AM Re: Leucistic Genealogy [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
.....Also I will make Index cards.....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
[:"blue"] Are you talking about 3"x5" paper index cards?? Seems to me that storing this information electronically would be more efficient and make it much easier to share the data with other interested individuals??

You did not comment on how you plan to handle "lions." [/]

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#35327 - 02/01/05 05:52 AM Re: Leucistic Genealogy [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


How are you to determine that the gliders are each variation? With scent staining, different personalized standards, variences in diet, etc. cinnamon, buttercream, blonde, and other such variation might not be wise to include. I understand that you have a personal interest in cinnamons in relation to leucistics, is that the reason for your including them? Personally, I would recommend including only the truely obvious variations (WFB, WT, leucistic, etc).

And last but not least, who is to determine the color standards? As I said before, if you are at all interested in the color standards I came up with by contacting several of the main color variation breeders, feel free to contact me... I still have all of my data.

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#35328 - 02/01/05 08:15 AM Re: Leucistic Genealogy [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I will be taking photographs of the gliders color variations to a genetisist to get a better understanding of the mode of transportation for the colors. I will also contact snake breeders who see much of the same color types and talk with them on this issue. I will not make any final determination of the color variations until I consult outside sources in addition to the breeders.

I am storing that data electronically. As of now the geneology is so large some people cannot recieve it via email so a mailed copy must be made available. I always keep a hard copy in addition to an electronic one. With my computer problems it just makes sence.

As for buttercreme. I cannot say what is and is not a color until I consult outside sources.

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#35329 - 02/01/05 09:54 AM Re: Leucistic Genealogy [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I will also contact snake breeders who see much of the same color types and talk with them on this issue.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">Why are you contacting snake breeders in referance to sugar gliders? Wouldn't mouse, hamster, or chichilla breeders make more sence since they are all mammals vs snakes, which are reptiles? Locigally speaking, that's like compairing apples to oranges.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I will be taking photographs of the gliders color variations to a genetisist to get a better understanding of the mode of transportation for the colors.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Also, what good are photographs? Variances in lighting, diet, natural light the glider recieves, differant cameras, picture quality, and backgrounds. How can pictures be used to determine "the mode of transportation for the colors"?

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#35330 - 02/01/05 11:52 AM Re: Leucistic Genealogy [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Genes are genes. Snakes and marsupials are simialar enough in terms of colors seen to compare to. There is more written about snakes and I know where to look and who to ask.

I am looking at modes of transmission not the suttle differences amoung the shades of a gliders coat. Distinctive changes like pricilla prices gliders or the combination that produced a platinum recently will be what I will be using as an example. Other variations will be shown too but the main focus of this geneology is the leucistic line.

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#35331 - 02/01/05 12:03 PM Re: Leucistic Genealogy [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't think that Chris is starting a registry, just a geneology of the leucistic line which happens to include other variations that have been bred into the lines. Tracking these variations and their integration into the lines is important so that we can possibly learn how they affect and cause more unique variations.

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#35332 - 02/01/05 12:22 PM Re: Leucistic Genealogy [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I know Chris isn't trying to start a registry, but he's trying to establish color variations that have no true definitions. I'm just trying to figure out how he plans on defining cinnamon and buttercream if he doesn't have a set standard...

**On a side note, I was unware that he intended to soley track the leucistic lines. His origonal post did not state that and instead listed several color variations...

Chris, quick question... Does this mean that you will now be including Priscilla Price's gliders in your genealogy?

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#35333 - 02/01/05 12:34 PM Re: Leucistic Genealogy [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Chris - I would really like access to this data if that is at all possible. I can receive up to 250MB in my email account.

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#35334 - 02/01/05 02:21 PM Re: Leucistic Genealogy [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I really wish that the general public were allowed to see the geneaology (even if it was without the owner info). I'm interested in getting leucistic hets, but so far I've not gotten anyone to answer my questions on the realities of hets producing leucistics. If I had that geneaology, I could see the information for myself.

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#35335 - 02/01/05 02:59 PM Re: Leucistic Genealogy [Re: ]
StitchsMom Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 10569
Loc: IL (St. Louis area)
Faierie: I know exactly what you mean.
_________________________
~*~Jenny and the fur kids~*~

:grey: :grey: :grey: :leu:

>>> Sugar Glider Slave <<<

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#35336 - 02/01/05 03:11 PM Re: Leucistic Genealogy [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"blue"] Chris:

What about Lions??? [/]

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#35337 - 02/01/05 03:37 PM Re: Leucistic Genealogy [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


To the extent that the geneology will include those gliders bred to leucistic yes Pricillas gliders will be included, however the geneological data for her gliders is sketchy at best, the previous owner had record keeping problems.

I am only creating this registry for the leucistic line and those bred into it.

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#35338 - 02/01/05 04:46 PM Re: Leucistic Genealogy [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


will albino hets be in this too?

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#35339 - 02/01/05 05:25 PM Re: Leucistic Genealogy [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


only if they are bred to a leucistic

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#35340 - 05/10/05 12:00 PM Re: Leucistic Genealogy [Re: ]
SugarBaby22 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 5697
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Any update on this??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

I wonder if anything came of this? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Linda

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#35341 - 05/12/05 10:21 AM Re: Leucistic Genealogy [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I did create a leucistic geneology and will relase the information to people whao have and are going to breed their leucistic or leucistic het. Due to privacy issues I will only relase this information to breeders of leucistics who presently own a leucistic or leucistic het.

Ushuaia

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