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#36494 - 02/10/05 01:27 PM Differences between vitamins?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Okay, this is not a diet post or a post ment to ruff up feathers, but I was really curious how everyone felt about vitamins. There are several diets we can use as glider parents and several ways to get nutrients into our gliders.

There's also the debate on reptile vitamins.

And what about "glider vitamins"? What are they really? Does anyone know? And how safe are they?

And what would be the purpose to sticking with reptile vitamins versus glider vitamins?

I was just thinking about it the other day and just got really curious. I'm on a proven diet, but am more interested in the vitamin side of things and what the differences actually are between the vitamins that we have to choose from.

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#36495 - 02/10/05 02:51 PM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Nihm, they have a "Glider Vitamin" suppliment available? What's the name of the product and the company?

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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#36496 - 02/11/05 06:21 AM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have to use a reptile supplement as they don't have glider supplements in the UK, I have started to use Gliderade though (also not available in the UK) which they seem to love! If there are 'proper' glider supplements I'd love to know about them - net surfing time!!

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#36497 - 02/11/05 08:09 AM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ozzi]
Anonymous
Unregistered



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#36498 - 02/11/05 08:43 AM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ozzi]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Also, Glidercal and Gliderbooster which can be bought at Exotic Nutrition, I think?

I was also wondering about this subject, too. How does using different vitamins in BML throw it off? (Don't worry...I follow BML exactly)

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#36499 - 02/11/05 10:08 AM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


See that's the thing, I follow BML exactly too, but I'm curious as to why if there are glider vitamins available, that we aren't using THEM for our vits. I know this is a Bourbon question, I'm sure she'll be along soon.

But the other thing I'm really curious about is what is the difference bwtween rep. vits and the Glider vits? Or are they just relabeled Rep Vits? Or relabeled Marsupial/mammel/etc vits?

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#36500 - 02/11/05 10:22 AM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I believe Bourbon mentioned that they chose the RepCal and Herptivite suppliments specifically for use in BML for two reasons. First, it's because they allowed for the working with the Vitamins and the clacium suppliments separately so to obtain a lower dose of the vitamins (1 teaspoon of vitamin per 2 teaspoons of clacium). Second, because the Rep Cal incorporated Betacarontene for Vit A, which is safer because the body derives Vit A from the betacarotene as the body needs it, as opposed to being stored in the liver until the body needed it.

Also, with mammal vitamins, different mammals require different doses and even among vitamins for specific mammal species, the doses are inconsistent.

I'm sure Bourbon will come along to further elaborate and address perhaps your concerns!

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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#36501 - 02/11/05 01:24 PM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
you did very well explaining it mikey..

I have similarily the same problems with glider vits , glider-booster, glider-cal as I have with other suppliments, sadly the BML, is the only diet that has actually been dissected and explained thoroughly, as to why we use what and why.. I wished that others would do the same with their products.

therefore without knowledge of the product in detail, I can not and WILL not in clear conscience advocate substitutions within the BML.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#36502 - 02/11/05 01:34 PM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Is there anyone who knows a bit more about the glider specific vitamins? I know at one point we had discussed that some of them were simply relabeled mammel vitmins.

I wonder if anyone who sells glider specific vitamins would be willing to come along and explain their vitamin. Where it came from, how it's mixed and if possible how the vits are absorbed and used by glider bodies as Bourbon has done.

Doesn't Pracilla price mix and sell her own? I'd be curious what the different stats are on the nutrients contained in SG specific vits. Anyone got some at home with the stats on the back?

I've got repcal and herptivite at home, we could make a comparison at the least.

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#36503 - 02/11/05 03:49 PM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Why don't you contact Priscilla directly. I am sure you would answer any questions you have?
www.thepetglider.com. She doesn't do the forum thing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/read.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/read.gif" alt="" />

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#36504 - 02/11/05 05:54 PM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I emailed Pracilla, Hopefully I'll get a break down and can compare it to the reptile vits stats.

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#36505 - 02/12/05 12:13 AM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


ooh ooh if you get that let me know. PM me if you dont post it, i have always been curious to know what the pet glider vitamins are. I considered strongly going with that diet, but when considering the price of the vitamins and not knowing exactly what was in it i decided not to. The instructions are to sprinkle them on top of food and that the gliders eat the vitamins first because they taste good. Does anyone have any they would be willing to taste and let us all know what they taste like?? Supposedly its a 'human grade multi-vitamin' so what is it? crushed up fruit flavored children's chewable tablets?? who knows?!

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#36506 - 02/14/05 09:52 AM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I emailed Pracilla. I'll admit she seems a bit reluctant to give me a breakdown. I think she's worried I plan on useing it as amo against her diet. This is not the idea.

Agaon remember we are not looking to bash a diet here, just curious people wondering if we can improve our furbutts diets. So please, as this thread continues, try to be respectful.

As soon as I hear anything from her I'll post what I can.

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#36507 - 02/14/05 07:29 PM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


If this </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Agaon remember we are not looking to bash a diet here, just curious people wondering if we can improve our furbutts diets. So please, as this thread continues, try to be respectful.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
was directed at me I am sorry you misunderstood my tone- easy to do when type has no tone. I truly am interested in the diet she developed especially the vitamins. Because no break down is given I was just curious to know what exactly it is. You have to admit in this day we love labels and want to know exactly what is in some things. Every diet has slightly different breakdowns when it comes to the vitamin supplement and i was curious how this compared.

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#36508 - 02/15/05 08:58 AM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh no no no Angie! I wasn't really directing that at anyone in particular, just a reminder for the future!

I am still trying to get the information we are seeking from Priscilla. I'll admit that at this point she has not been very forthcoming with any info. I'm a label lover too Angie, and it bothers me that no one has asked these questions and gotten answers.

Anyone know where to buy Glider Booster or if that one has a nutritional breakdown label on it???? If anyone has it would you be willing to post the nutritional label?

Thanks guys!


Edited by Nihm (02/15/05 09:00 AM)

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#36509 - 02/15/05 09:17 AM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would be interested to know the difference between glider vits and reptile vits also, we don't have glider vits on sale in the uk, so it would be good to know if it's worth importing them, if they're just reptile vits with the label changed then I wouldn't bother (obviously!!)

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#36510 - 02/15/05 11:19 AM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ozzi]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't have the labels for analysis, but this is where you can buy them:

http://www.exoticnutrition.com/Glider-Supplements.htm

Sorry I couldn't help more!

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#36511 - 02/15/05 12:06 PM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Great THANKS! That's what we wanted! Now we'll see if they will give us breakdowns.

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#36512 - 02/15/05 12:41 PM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
SJTSimmons Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 12/08/04
Posts: 61
Loc: Seabrook, Texas
I use Priscilla's diet and got out the Vit's. Here is what the package says
The Pet Glider

Sugar Glider: Multin Vitamin & Multi Mineral, Calcium, Nectar, Bee Pollen, Probiotics, and Herbs and Acacia Gum.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help, this is as much as it's broken down on the package.

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#36513 - 02/15/05 01:20 PM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Cool thanks!
I am actually trying to get the vitamin break down from Priscilla. We'll see if she ends up letting me see it or not.

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#36514 - 02/15/05 01:23 PM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Here's the Repcal and Herptivite breakdown:

Rep-Cal
100% Natural phosphorus free oyster chell Calcium Carbonate
Ingrediants: Calcium Carbonate
Vitamins d3
Calcium Min 35%
Calcium Max 40%
Vitamin d3 Min 400,000 IU/Kg

Herptivite (Per Kg)
Vitamins
Vitamin E 5,500 IU
Choline 4,400 mg
Niacin 3,300 mg
Inositol 2,530 mg
Ascorbic Acid (vit C) 2,200 mg
P-Amino Benzoic Acid 1,100 mg
Thiamine (B1) 880 mg
Riboflavin (B2) 550 mg
Vit. B6 550 mg
Beta Carotene 440 mg
d-Pantothenic Acid 330 mg
Folic Acid 33 mg
Menadione 22 mg
Vit. B12 3.85 mg
Biotin - 0.44 mg

Amino Acids
Alanine (0.62%) 6,193 mg
Arginine (0.58%) 5,808 mg
Aspartic Acid (1.03%) 10,263 mg
Cysteine (0.27%) 2,717 mg
Glutamic Acid (1.32%) 13,167 mg
Glycine (0.35%) 3,487 mg
Histidine (0.23%) 2,321 mg
Isoleucine (0.54%) 5,445 mg
Leucine (0.64%) 8,514 mg
Lysine (0.64%) - 6,391 mg
Methionine (0.38%) 3,773 mg
Phenylalanine (0.59%) 5,907 mg
Proline (0.39%) 3,872 mg
Serine (0.69%) 6,864 mg
Threonine (0.46%) 4,554 mg
Tryptophan (0.17%) 1,650 mg
Tyrosine (0.40%) 3,971 mg
Valine ( 0.70%) 6,974 mg

Minerals
Calcium min (2.2%) 22,000 mg
Calcium max (2.3%) 23,000 mg
Phosphorus (1.1%) 11,000 mg
Salt min (0.13%) 1,320 mg
Salt max (0.14%) 1,385 mg
Magnesium (0.01%) 99 mg
Potassium (0.17%) 1,650 mg
Sulfer (0.55%) 5,500 mg
Copper 165 ppm
Iodine 38.5 ppm
Iron 3,850 ppm
Manganese 330 ppm
Zinc 330 ppm

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#36515 - 02/15/05 05:04 PM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would imagine that Pricilla is reluctant to give out the information we are seeking because this is something she developed and in all honesty makes money off of. (We've seen similar concerns here with pouch design, only it's a lot easier to see how a pouch is made and copy than a vitamin supplement.) If the breakdown were given it would make it very easy for a glider owner to feed her mix and supplement with different vitamins. Which would also be easy to do incorrectly throwing some things off and making the diet unbalanced. So there are probably several reasons. I made up her mix once, but didn't realize that the vitamins had to be purchased special from her. My gliders LOVED that mix. But I switched them off solely because of cost...ramble ramble ramble. I think im done. Still looking forward to hearing what everyone has to say.

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#36516 - 02/16/05 08:35 AM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Surprisingly enough for some people as this will be, Priscilla has given me a break down!

Now keep in mind when looking at this and looking at the Rep Vits that we aren't trying to make a play by play comparison here. If someone else would like to take that on feel free, but my goal for this post was simply to get an idea of what the differences might be, so that those of us in the "common world" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> can have a little bit of a better understanding about vitamins.

So here is Priscilla's vitamin breakdown:

Breakdown per 7 tablespoons Pet Glider Vitamins

VITAMINS & MINERALS

Vitamin A 15,000 IU

Vitamin C 1,000mg

Vitamin D2 500IU

Vitamin E 400IU

Vitamin K 5mcg

Thiamine B-1 25mg

Riboflavin B-2 25mg

Niacin 100mg

Choline 100mg

Inositol 100mg

Vitamin B-6 25mg

Folic Acid 400mcg

Vitamin B-12 25mcg

Biotin 25mcg

Pantothenic Acid 25mg

Calcium 1,125mg

Iron 9mg

Phosphorus 200mg

Iodine 180mcg

Magnesium 200mg

Zinc 15mg

Selenium 50mcg

Copper 0.2mg

Manganese 4mg

Chromium 50mcg

Potassium 100mg



AMINO ACIDS

Alanine 196mg

Arginine 256mg

Aspartic Acid 297mg

Cystine/Cysteine 60mg

Glutamic Acid 424mg

Glycine 163mg

Histidine 71mg

Isoleucine 135mg

Leucine 274mg

Lysine 146mg

Methionine 117mg

Phenylalanine 167mg

Proline 170mg

Serine 165mg

Threonine 123mg

Tryptophan 48mg

Tyrosine 147mg

Valine 160mg

Also includes:
-Calcium sup approved through the FDA
-nectar, bee pollen, milk thistle for healthy liver function, probiotics for the immune system and for better absorption of nutrients, and Gum Arabic (from the Acacia species) a carbohydrate high in calcium

Any math genius who can give us the amount of Kg per tablespoon would be really helpful!

Thanks guys!

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#36517 - 02/16/05 08:37 AM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Here's a link to the vitamins in the Exotic Nutrition system. No breakdowns on this one as far as I can find so far.


http://www.exoticnutrition.com/Nutra-Glider.htm[/url]


Can anyone think of any other places that sell glider specific vitamins?


Edited by Nihm (02/16/05 08:38 AM)

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#36518 - 02/16/05 08:39 AM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Interesting... Now, where is Randy and his calculator?

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#36519 - 02/16/05 01:19 PM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


We have per kilogram on the other vits right?? Problem there is one is weight and one is volume. You could just assume that they are approximately the same weight per volume but this will be really interesting to figure out.

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#36520 - 02/16/05 01:47 PM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hm.... interesting. Math is not my strong point so if someone wants to take that on feel free.

My goal here was mostly to see how the vitamins vary, and as far as I can tell they have 85-90% the same stuff in them, it's just the amounts that seem they may vary considerably.

There also are not a list of Minerals in the Glider Vits that Priscilla has, but some of those minerals ARE found in the Exotic Nutrition Vits.

Anyone feel free to jump in a put in a better analysis. I've only gotten to really glace at it, since I'm at work all day.


Edited by Nihm (02/16/05 01:50 PM)

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#36521 - 02/16/05 01:58 PM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


In regards to ExoticNutrition...

UGHHH I'd do the math but I hate working with ounces... You Americans... when will you guys convert to the SI metric system like the rest of the world?! LOL. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

OK... well the volumes can simply be converted to approximate masses by way of ratio using the total weight of the entire product (i.e. 10 ounces). That's the easy part.

However, this wouldn't be enough since these calculations can't be compared to the rep vits merely due to the fact that the rep vit figures are much more precise and although calculating the masses of substances in the nutra-glider from the provided percentages (that are also approximations) would give approximate figures, they would definitely not be fit for comparison with the rep vits. You can actually determine very little from the information provided by the exoticnutrition stats. It's quite vague and is almost rather evasive still (e.g. "added mineral"? That acounts for nearly 70% of the materials listed in the reptile vit list).

There are more substances in the nutra - glider than those listed, and because the figures of such missing substances are not listed in the percentage breakdown, it makes for a great deal of calculation error. They don't provide the public with percentages either because there is such a miniscule amount in there, they don't know, it doesn't exist in there, or they do not want to reveal the stat.

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

PS - Did you say you needed kg per tablespoon conversions of all of Pricilla's substances? Wow. They're going to have to be expressed in SI units, i.e. scientific notation - I can tell you that much. I think I'm missing something... Why do you need the figures converted to kg per tablespoon?

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#36522 - 02/16/05 03:28 PM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


We don't necissarily need kg to tablespoon, just a common figure to go from to make the compairison. the first vits further up in this thread were given in kg. Pricillas was given in Tablespoons, so we just need a common denominator if you will to do the compairison

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#36523 - 02/16/05 03:50 PM Re: Differences between vitamins? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Duh... I just got it... If someone doesn't do the calculations then I'll be able to help out with calculations later tonight when I am more free. The calculations seem pretty straight forward.

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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