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#370693 - 08/26/07 03:19 AM GLIDER POUCH STUDY RESULTS
7glider7
Unregistered


OK, here's my extremely long-winded results on the glider pouch study. This was prompted by people asking if our glider pouches we use are safe after several healthy gliders died in their pouches over the summer.

Please note that there were only two situations for me to analyze, so there wasn't a lot to go on, but I did the best I could.

Thank you to those of you who were willing to share your stories with me hug2


Attachments
Sugar Glider Pouch Safety Study.pdf (211 downloads)


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#370712 - 08/26/07 07:32 AM Re: GLIDER POUCH STUDY RESULTS [Re: ]
Mel2mdl Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 4212
Loc: Garland, TX
I'm impressed with your writing style. Thank you for doing this. It makes me both sad and happy to hear that gliders don't usually die in pouches like my babies did. cry I really thought it would have been more common.

For all the newbies out there - please read the last part on suggestions. They are solid and well considered. Thank you for doing this Jen.
_________________________
Molly, son & husband:

Chairman Meow
Oscar & Thomas
Sam, Diego, Delilah, Delia :wfb:
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Marcel, Dakota, Latte
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:grey:
Karl,Lenny,Jynxie,Chamille, Kee & Mr. Beans in my heart forever.
Teaching teenagers-part joy, part guerilla warfare! :rbridge:

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#370714 - 08/26/07 07:52 AM Re: GLIDER POUCH STUDY RESULTS [Re: Mel2mdl]
Leyna
Unregistered


I have 2 other instances to add to your study, if you would like them...

Yesterday, I lost a glider that was in a zippered sissy pouch with a window. There were 3 other gliders in the pouch, all were fine. The 1 I lost (Dio) was exstreamly hot and over heated... The gliders were only in the pouch for maybe 1/2 and hour.


Also, last year, a genetleman in Canada lost several gliders while transporting them home in their pouch. They were in very light weight cotton pouches (because it was hot out), then seperated in a mesh transporter to prevent bickering threw the thin pouches... They were never checked on over the 7 hour journy how and were found dead upon arrival. I believe 7 gliders were lost, but honestly, I can't remember exactly. I know at least 1 or 2 of the gliders transported survived, but the majority passed away.

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#370719 - 08/26/07 07:58 AM Re: GLIDER POUCH STUDY RESULTS [Re: ]
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 6249
Loc: Kansas
Leyna, I am so sorry to hear you lost one. What was the conditon that they were zipped up and very hot and overheated?
I only aske because this has never happened in 5 plus years and now all of suddeh 2 different people report it. Wondering if there is anything I can change or what.


Again, I am so sorry your your loss.
_________________________
Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon

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#370740 - 08/26/07 09:18 AM Re: GLIDER POUCH STUDY RESULTS [Re: ]
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 11015
Loc: MA
Leyna;

I'm so sorry on the loss of Dio. This thing with pouches is scary. I'm glad all the others were ok.
_________________________
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Mary

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#370745 - 08/26/07 09:33 AM Re: GLIDER POUCH STUDY RESULTS [Re: pappy1264]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16757
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Leyna, so sorry you lost a glider yesterday like you dont have enough going on.

However, I really would not write it up as to the pouch being the issue in this regard. Take everything else that has happened and the conditions it is revolving. Also keep in mind, this is NOT because you stated in a sissy, I believe it would have happened in ANY pouch.

First they have been in a house without you for a few days now, could have been dehydrated. Secondly you have them in the heat and with all the flooding you have EXTREME humidity levels, even inside a house...

Gliders can sweat but ONLY through the pads of their feet so this is NOT enough to cool them off. A gliders temperature can NOT raise that high because it WILL kill them, just like it would a chinchilla.

So although I am NOT trying to lessen the pain of your loss as it is always unbearable, I honestly do NOT think this was a pouch related loss. hug2
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#370823 - 08/26/07 01:06 PM Re: GLIDER POUCH STUDY RESULTS [Re: Srlb]
7glider7
Unregistered


Leyna, I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your glider hug2 I know you must be going through a lot now with the floods and this must be very hard. I'm glad you added the information to the post so others can consider that information as well. hug2

One of the stories in the study had the same situation in that some of the gliders in the pouch died, and other gliders in that same pouch did not (it was a pouch of 2 gliders and 1 survived and 1 passed). My only guess as to why this could happen is that perhaps some gliders have a higher heat tolerance than others, just as some people have a higher heat tolerance than others before they will suffer heat exhaustion or heat stroke. dunno

As for the 7 gliders, I believe someone did give me the information about that while I was researching. I was told that the gliders were shipped in either the cargo section or some other temperature-unregulated section of the train during the summer time, so their deaths were very clearly related to overheating at the negligence of that owner, rather than pouch design possibly being a problem. So I did not include that one in the study since the cause of death was confirmed as overheating.

The fact that it happened in a pouch with a window is good for members to consider; this makes it a different situation from the other deaths. Which again, if anything, shows that we can't really declare one pouch type as "unsafe" or anything of that sort. Please don't feel that this is your fault and our thoughts are with you as you and your family are dealing with the flood hug2


Edited by 7glider7 (08/26/07 01:10 PM)

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#370836 - 08/26/07 01:23 PM Re: GLIDER POUCH STUDY RESULTS [Re: ]
GliderLove Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 4801
Loc: SE Minnesota..
Leyna, I am very sorry with all you have been going thru, to have lost your Dio. hug2

Jen, I want to thank you for taking the time you did, to prepare that information to help anyone using a pouch. I really like how well thought and researched your information is, I know we had discussed alittle about this not to long ago, and i'm just blown away really. I'm not a very big pouch user, as most my babies travel under my clothing..lol..I commend you on your great job in getting this together to benefit every one!! clap clap clap
_________________________
Cindy
Mom to
Jae, Ashton, Briannah, Nevaeh & Addy

& all my fuzzies!
Breeder of Leu's, Mosaics, wfb, and standard grey's.
Owner of www.MySugarAddiction.com

:rtmo: :leu:


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#370846 - 08/26/07 01:30 PM Re: GLIDER POUCH STUDY RESULTS [Re: GliderLove]
7glider7
Unregistered


Aw thank you guys blush

In retrospect it should be shorter so more people will actually read the whole thing but I am really long-winded. tounge

In any case I just hope it provokes more mature discussion about the way we travel with our gliders and how we can make it safer for everyone.


Edited by 7glider7 (08/26/07 01:31 PM)
Edit Reason: added more

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#370867 - 08/26/07 01:55 PM Re: GLIDER POUCH STUDY RESULTS [Re: ]
Leyna
Unregistered


Peggy, not try to start a debate, but a few of your statements are in correct. All of the gliders were hydrated. I checked each one as I put them into their pouch and I had sub-q fluids on hand in case they weren't. Also, there was AC running in the house when I went to get the glider out and it had been on for quite some time. The power was out at our house for a very short period of time, relatively speaking. The power and AC were both on 2 days ago when I was concerned about it being to hot. My neighbor confirmed this because he had went over and fed the gliders for me, while we were trapped on the other side of town. As for the humidity thing... I also have degus and it would have been dangerously humid for the gliders inside of the house, then it would have been morbidly humid for the degus... All of the degus are alive in while, so that obviously was not the case.

The fleece inside of the pouch was soaked when I pulled Dio out and Dio was extreamly hot. Dio and his pouch mates were all damp, but his pouch mates were not as hot as he was. I think that dispite the window, there was not enough ventalation when the fleece became wet.

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#370954 - 08/26/07 04:30 PM Re: GLIDER POUCH STUDY RESULTS [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16757
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Leyna hug2 Last thing in the world we would want now is a debate going on with all you have been through but I would like to point out a few things I think you may have misread or took wrong and before I do I want you to know that I would NEVER think you would EVER do ANYTHING to put your gliders in harms way. I know how much you love and treasure your fur balls. That is ONE thing you and I will NEVER disagree on. hug2

Quote:
but a few of your statements are in correct


I dont see how they can be incorrect when I was simply asking for you to look at all you have been through and all they have been through sweetie. Not saying ANY of them was what was going on at the time.

Quote:
Also, there was AC running in the house when I went to get the glider out and it had been on for quite some time


I wouldnt think this to be possible with all the water you had stated was in your house. I always thought that when water levels got that high they did a mandatory shut off to prevent electrical fires. I know they do in Illinois where my family lives anyway. So I apologize for thinking the gliders had to go without AC.

Quote:
My neighbor confirmed this because he had went over and fed the gliders for me, while we were trapped on the other side of town


Once again, from your thread in community talk I thought nobody was able to get to your animals for a few days because you said...

Quote:
I'm so afraid to even have somebody go over there because I fear that they are all dead...


You also posted that you thought it was from being overheated. Maybe large gliders should be minimized to two in a pouch, no matter what type of pouch it is if going with us anywhere.

Every time my gliders ever got overheated in a pouch they always started trying to get out. When they start up like that I let them out to see what is going on, whether they have to urinated, defecate, etc...

Anyway, once again I just want to say I am so sorry for all you are going through right now. It just threw me off and I was thinking maybe it is time for us to start thinking of the hazards that severe weather can cause.

Please know my heart goes out to you sweetie. It honestly does. hug2



_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#370967 - 08/26/07 04:57 PM Re: GLIDER POUCH STUDY RESULTS [Re: Srlb]
LindsayAnnG
Unregistered


this whole thing is soo sad.. I am so sorry for everyone;s losses and i can only hope that we can learn from out mistakes and these tragedies can be learned from and save many glider's lives..

It jus makes me want to go cuddle my little boys

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