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#370973 - 08/26/07 05:04 PM HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS
Lucky_Glider Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 340
Loc: Van Alstyne, Texas
This is also posted elsewhere but Gail and I thought it was important enough to publish in multiple places. We have waited for a few months to get some results with this diet and we figured it was OK to share what we have found at this point.

For those of you who read the HPW diet ANALYSIS post, this may be of some interest. We have been feeding not only the HPW diet "mix" but also a rotating and Ca:Ph balanced group of fruits and veggies. We have also been offering each suggie three or four mealies with the frequency of twice a week. We have also been offering fresh flower blossums.

When I first contacted Peggy Brewer about the HPW diet she made a suggestion. She asked us to take "before and after" photos of our individuals...

Of particular interest are the 12-week OOP joeys in the "B" colony Bunny and Butch. Both of these individuals have been nursing from their mom Barbie (Mom had been on the diet for serveral months so her milk is based on HPW) and as of three weeks or so ago the joeys have all been eating HPW fare. They also sneak milk from Auntie Belle who is still lactating for her own Joeys BooBoo and Buttercup. Being in the same colony, Belle also has been on HPW for a few months. Anyway, take a look at the 12 week OOP shots of Butch. In our experience, he is perhaps the most well-developed and healthy-looking 12 week old we have seen. Compare him to the pitiful runts you see at this age:

http://www.glidercentral.net/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=104654

Another observation we thought was significant is the "before and after" shots of D colony's Dottie. We acquired her in part because we felt sorry for her pitiful runtishness and poor coat. Even before we started HPW we were feeding our gliders a well-balanced diet and we knew we could bring her to a more healthy state. But it happens we acquired her pretty close to the start of our offering the HPW diet.

So here is Dottie at 3.5 Months OOP "Before" HPW diet. When we acquired her, she was a mere 32 grams, runtish, and with a sad-looking fur: worried

http://www.glidercentral.net/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=104635

Now consider Dottie at 5.5 Months OOP "After" we bagan feeding her per the HPW diet plan and with rotation of 2:1 balanced ca:ph fruits and veggies. Note how she has filled-out considerably and her fur is shiny and supple: grin

http://www.glidercentral.net/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=104631

So what do you all think?

Cheers, Ed & Gail

P.S. Peggy, thanks for the suggestion of taking the before and after photos! thanks



Edited by Lucky_Glider (08/26/07 05:18 PM)
_________________________
Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#370981 - 08/26/07 05:10 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: Lucky_Glider]
Melissa2721
Unregistered


Those are incredible pictures, I can't wait to start HPW !

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#370988 - 08/26/07 05:17 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: Lucky_Glider]
7glider7
Unregistered


She looks much better!

So far the evidence I have seen with the before and after coat pictures with the HPW have been quite astounding. It really does seem to make a difference with coat quality.

That being said, I always like to re-iterate that coat quality is not the only important evidence that one should assess when considering whether or not a diet is providing adequate nutrition for their glider. (So, just because your glider's coat condition improves does not mean that this is the perfect diet and all is well). Rather, what is going on inside the glider is also very important...but coat quality can be an external indicator that can also be considered as evidence, and so far, I must say the evidence is pretty impressive.

***Ed and Gail, I want to add, I know you were NOT implying in your last post that coat quality should be the only means of assessing a diet...quite on the contrary...I have been incredibly impressed with the thorough analysis you guys have worked on for the diet.***

I just wanted to add that piece because so many people were posting before and after pics of their gliders on a similar thread previously, and wigging out about coats and whether or not their diets were "bad" based on "creases" or "lines" in the coat, and I always like to reiterate that we must use multiple pieces of evidence to assess a diet, so no glider owner should feel compelled to suddenly switch diets or feel their diet is inadequate based on coat condition alone.

Cheers smile

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#370993 - 08/26/07 05:21 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: ]
Lucky_Glider Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 340
Loc: Van Alstyne, Texas
Good point Jen. It was good of you to reiterate that! Thanks, Ed & Gail
_________________________
Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#371012 - 08/26/07 05:40 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: Lucky_Glider]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Ed & Gail....WONDERFUL pictures!!! They look STUNNING!!

Jen, good point. I would also at this time try to tell everyone, the pic that Ed posted of the girl they got in bad shape is EXACTLY what I meant in that post about clumping and seperating fur. A HUGE difference than the seperation or lines you see in a glider that is just waking up dont ya think?

Ed, I will probably be sending you a pm within the next couple of days. You all havent heard from me because I sent some questions over to Dr. T and waiting for his response. thumb
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#371024 - 08/26/07 05:49 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: Srlb]
Lucky_Glider Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 340
Loc: Van Alstyne, Texas
Thanks Peggy, I'm looking forward to that. Also if you could PM me on the logistics of getting some of the AU pollen you have as I am running out...

Cheers, Ed
_________________________
Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#371032 - 08/26/07 06:04 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: Lucky_Glider]
WannaBeMom
Unregistered


I too, would like to thank Peggy, Ed and Gail. Granted, I have my days where the numbers seem...overwhelming...but your most recent progress on the Analysis thread, has REALLY helped me. It just clicked for me. So thank you all so much, and haha...I haven't even got my babies yet...but one more week...and when I do have them, they will thank you too.

I cannot believe just how healthy both those gliders look OVERALL now Ed...really a testament to how much you love those guys!

Anyway, THANKS!

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#371057 - 08/26/07 06:30 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: ]
Lucky_Glider Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 340
Loc: Van Alstyne, Texas
Thanks Shannon, you must be really ACHING to get those little suggies in a week! I wonder if the administrators will let you change your handle from wannabemom to proudmom or something when you get 'em :-) Also this analysis stuff is really tedious even for me would you believe. I went to school for English and Journalism and just barely graduated owing to poor math scores, so yes I do love them or else I would not suffer through with all the stupid math! That said, if you or anyone else wants to actually talk "live" about figuring - me and Gail will be happy to chat on the phone if that would be helpful. We have a nationwide calling plan so there is no real expense involved. Just PM or email me if you ever want that.

Cheers, Ed & Gail

[Everyone, for the sake of proper internet saftey and decorum, that offer is for adults because I do not want to encourage unsafe contact practices for kids. If you are not an adult and want to "talk" you can arrange for your parents to contact us.]

_________________________
Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#371104 - 08/26/07 07:33 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: Lucky_Glider]
Rita
Unregistered


Butch is one handsome suggie!!!!

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#371126 - 08/26/07 07:56 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: ]
Lucky_Glider Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 340
Loc: Van Alstyne, Texas
Rita I told him you said that and he blushed :-)

_________________________
Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#371136 - 08/26/07 08:05 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: Lucky_Glider]
37creekview
Unregistered


he is very handsome and his name suits him well....we think you did a great job with your photo-documentation as well.....did I miss the thread describing your additions/modifications/flower blossom choices? If so could someone remember it for me please?

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#371152 - 08/26/07 08:26 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: Lucky_Glider]
WannaBeMom
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Lucky_Glider
I wonder if the administrators will let you change your handle from wannabemom to proudmom or something when you get 'em :-)


laugh That is something to think about...though by the sounds of it, "wannabemom" is what I'll be for the next pair, and the next pair! (jk...I think these will be it for a long while!)!!

I have been prepping for their arrival (driving to get them over the long weekend!!) for WEEKS...I've been planning more or less since February. I think we're set, though I'm sure I've forgotten SOMETHING!! Actually...that reminds me I need to start a new thread about some cage help.

Off to do that, but Ed, thank you for the open invitation. I will be making my first "batch" of the HPW and working a few numbers this week in preparation of their homecoming! Good grief I'm excited.

laugh
xo

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#371169 - 08/26/07 08:45 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: ]
Lucky_Glider Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 340
Loc: Van Alstyne, Texas
Dear Elizabeth, I don't recall where my flower mention was, so pardon the partial repeat everyone else...

Acacia aneura is the Acacia tree we use and we ordered that from a local nursery here in Las Vegas. In Australia, the type of Acacia that is popular is the "Golden Wattle" (Acacia longifolia). Acacia aneura has thin yellow blossums and our gliders just destroy them (and the twigs).

Bottlebrush (Callistemon phoeniceus, or C. linearis, or C. rugulosus) is a treat for them. They like to battle with the leaves and stems and crunch on the blossums (also yellow). These are easy to get at a local nursery.

Also popular with possums is the Grevillea "Honey Gem" (hybrid of G.pteridifolia and G.banksii) which just drips wtih nectar and I am told by my AU friends. They say gliders go nuts for it. If any of you can find a mail order nursery in the states that has it, please let me know....

Plumbago europaea is also a good choice referred to us by another friend "down under." In fact we just bought one but will have to plant another cuz it died. It has beautiful blue blossums.

Roses and rose hips work too. And of course Eucalyptus.

For us these are just "treats" and considering the scarcity of blossums depending on the time of year, it's hard for most of us to make these blossums a part of their staple diet. The people in OZ have it easier than us in the states in that regard. :-)

Regarding "modifications" to the diet, we are not suggesting that. But we are in favor of taking into account the nutritive values of the fruits and veggies that go along with the HPW diet. If you are up to the gruesome detail, the post on "HPW diet Nutritional Analysis" has some info on that...

Cheers, Ed & Gail




_________________________
Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#371171 - 08/26/07 08:47 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: Lucky_Glider]
Lucky_Glider Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 340
Loc: Van Alstyne, Texas
Good luck Shannon, we are excited for you! Don't forget to post pictures when they are calm enough to allow it :-)
_________________________
Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#371203 - 08/26/07 09:10 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: Lucky_Glider]
Kathryn
Unregistered


The pictures are amazing... Thats how my babies look... They're soft like mink now and their energy is through the roof! I have noticed a marked improvement in them, all three! And they really do love the mix, they eat it up every night! Its wonderfull to see the empty bowl each morning! While they still are not big on teh fruit and veggies shakehead I feel that they are thriving on this plan, they really are doing well! Better than they did on two other diets. I'm just thrilled.

Those pictures are great!

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#371244 - 08/26/07 09:36 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: ]
Lucky_Glider Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 340
Loc: Van Alstyne, Texas
Thanks Kathryn, I am so glad you are seeing good results too! We will keep taking pictures but it looks like smooth sailing so far :-)
_________________________
Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#371246 - 08/26/07 09:37 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: ]
Rita
Unregistered


Kathryn - I, too, am having a problem with them eating their fruits and veggies. I have tried fruit smoothies & veggie relish. Fresh, frozen, you name it. Little snots. They always clean their bowl with the HPW mixture in it, tho.

I have even tried offering them their fruits and/or veggies during the day as a hand fed snack. I have tried putting their veggies or fruits in the same bowl as the HPW mixture. No go. <sigh> Spoiled Little Princess Brats. mlove

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#371348 - 08/26/07 11:48 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: ]
gliderdad79 Offline
Owner

Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 15514
Loc: Long Island, NY
Peggy and I both said after we switched that their coats and activity improved greatly. Glad your gliders are enjoying it clap
_________________________
Eddie

In the Tropics somewhere between the port of indecision and southeast of disorder!

"Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people."

One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure its worth watching!

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#371374 - 08/27/07 12:29 AM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: ]
Kathryn
Unregistered


You know... I've stopped stressing over it.... I was [censored] out big time! But I still offer them, they still turn their noses up at them... lol If they want them, they are there... I even tried giving the fruits and veggies 3 to 5 hours earlier than the HPW giving them no choice.. and still, no interest in them... Brats indeed!

And for a period of two weeks they also lost ALL INTEREST in meal worms, which really gave me a scare! But they are back on them! So maybe they will take the veggies and fruit back someday??? But like I said, I'm not going to stress over it, they are doing very well! Klinger has a joey IP and she is Flying around like a nut! She is doing so well!

I'm also giving a tad bit of yogart as treats and they are loving that!

Someone was able to talk me into the Pinky feeding thing... I have to be honest... it was pretty creepy! Not cause I couldn't handle watching the eating, but cause I could only find frozen ones! So I just bought one.... I had to warm it up and everything shakehead ugh.... And the girls wouldn't tough the dead little thing... but Hawkeye will eat eanything... he ate the WHOLE THING!

I'm getting live next time. lol

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#371384 - 08/27/07 01:05 AM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: ]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
I took before pictures of my gliders when I started HPW.

It is probably way past time for after pictures. I will take them as soon as "stuff and junk" around here calms down a bit!
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#371484 - 08/27/07 09:18 AM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: ValkyrieMome]
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
Lucky Glider, thos pics are great. I've put mine on HPW also. I didn't take pictures but I have to tell you what DH said. I had the gliders out to play the other night and he walked past them and said "Hey, your gliders look like somebody blow dried them". LOL Now DH isn't very interested in the gliders, but the change was dramatic enough that he noticed.

I know that fur isn't a single indicater of health, but I believe what is going on inside their body will show on the outside of their body.
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StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

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#371800 - 08/27/07 06:17 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: hushpuppy]
Lucky_Glider Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 340
Loc: Van Alstyne, Texas
Thanks for all the input and support you guys. If any of you do have before and after or even just after picutures, please post them here or somewhere else we can see them.

Cheers, Ed & Gail
_________________________
Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#371839 - 08/27/07 07:15 PM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: Lucky_Glider]
KJDUFF
Unregistered


WOW those pictures are great!! I love the one where bunny inspects bells pouch.. so cute.

I do have one question... not to get off subject BUT...

HOW DO YOU TELL THEM ALL APART???

I have 3 males that ALL (now that daddys gained weight) look a like. The only one I can tell who is who is my lone female!! She actually has a round face where the others have a angular face. Im just curious how you do it. I feel like such a bad mommy that I call them "my guys" and that they never get called their names frown


Edited by KJDUFF (08/27/07 07:15 PM)

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#372140 - 08/28/07 12:15 AM Re: HPW DIET: BEFORE AND AFTER SHOTS [Re: ]
Lucky_Glider Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 340
Loc: Van Alstyne, Texas
Well, I'd like to say it's easy to tell them apart but it isn't... Here's how we do it:

1. Sex. Sometimes we have to turn them upside-down to see if they have a pouch
2. Pointiness or bluntness or skininess or fatness of the "racing stripe" on their head. Some of them have skinny ones, diamond-shaped ones, etc.
3. Amount of "white" just behind their ears. Some of them have more white there than the others.
4. Shape of head. Some are a little wider and "pug nosed" and some are pointy.
5. Lenght or bushiness of tail.
6. Shape and color of fingers and toes. Some have little black spots some don't.
7. Behavior. Some of them do the same thing or go to the same place on you. Some groom, some don't. Some scamper away when you try to hold them, some stay, etc.

'Hope some of these work for you :-)
_________________________
Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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