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#371811 - 08/27/07 06:42 PM Overweight gliders & Proteins....
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
I am trying to see if there is any connection here. Just doing a bit more research and would like everyones input on this...

Please tell me if you have overweight gliders and if so, what types of proteins are you feeding in your diet?

I need people to be as honest as possible here. Sometimes people tend to think when people ask these kinds of questions they are looking for someone to critisize or downgrade. I PROMISE all of you that is NOT the case here. The only way we are going to be able to improve things for the gliders is if we are all completely honest in what we allow them to put in their mouths and how much of it.

So come on folks, help me out here. clap
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#371823 - 08/27/07 06:54 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: Srlb]
MizValorie Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2579
Loc: Sherman, Texas
What are you considering over weight?
_________________________
Valorie and our 10 fur children

RIP Mary Kate

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#371824 - 08/27/07 06:55 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: Srlb]
MizValorie Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2579
Loc: Sherman, Texas
Double post...sorry!


Edited by MizValorie (08/27/07 07:16 PM)
_________________________
Valorie and our 10 fur children

RIP Mary Kate

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#371825 - 08/27/07 06:55 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: Srlb]
TheGliderPouch
Unregistered


Well, I can honestly tell you that I feed more insects than most glider owners, and my largest glider is 110 grams. Every day each glider gets about twenty mealworms or about six supers. They also get chicken or egg a couple of times a week.

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#371837 - 08/27/07 07:12 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: MizValorie]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Val, I am considering those that are considered *Largly Fluffy* grin
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#371843 - 08/27/07 07:18 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: Srlb]
MizValorie Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2579
Loc: Sherman, Texas
I have a male that is 173 and a girl that is 156...largely fluffy?
_________________________
Valorie and our 10 fur children

RIP Mary Kate

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#371868 - 08/27/07 07:53 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: MizValorie]
LindsayAnnG
Unregistered


I have 5 gliders that all eat the same diet. 4 of them are normal weight but then I have CHUNK, he is about 164grams but i believe he might have gained a little lately.

I just recently (within the past month) changed to the HPW diet. I have no weighed him since he has been on the diet so i can not tell you for sure that he gained weight on that diet though.

With the HPW diet, i feed papaya, apples, corn, carrots, peas, green beans, and a bunch of other veggies and fruits. It rotates each day. They do not get a lot of bugs - usually 5-10 small mealies every other day. Sometime they get yogurt or eggs as a treat.

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#371896 - 08/27/07 08:32 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: MizValorie]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Val they sound a bit fluffy to me grin

I have a couple like that myself. wink
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#371937 - 08/27/07 09:02 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: Srlb]
MizValorie Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2579
Loc: Sherman, Texas
They are adorable aren't they?

Those are the two I have had the longest (over a year)

My male gained alot of weight when he came to me and then got a mate, he didn't need to spend all night in his wheel anymore, so I think its a good thing!

My gliders have been on HPW since November.

I feed them as many mealies as they want because I can't take em away.

I give boiled eggs every now and then.

A piece (their size) of chicken at least once a wk.

Yogurt 2-3 times a wk. One to two teaspoons.

I think thats about it.
_________________________
Valorie and our 10 fur children

RIP Mary Kate

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#371973 - 08/27/07 09:38 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: MizValorie]
7glider7
Unregistered


I have two gliders that might be considered in the overweight range? It definitely depends based on their body size.

Zoey I would consider overweight. She's currently at about 150 grams. I have had Zoey for about 3 wonderful months. I have decreased her food intake slightly (and increased her activity) to try to help her lose a bit of weight. In addition to the staple diet I feed she gets 1-2 giant mealies a day, but more if it's nail-trimming day for bribes smile

Kirby I also consider borderline overweight. He's at 122 grams currently. I also give him only 1-2 giant mealies a day. He gets the same staple but he has chunked out within the last few months because now he is housed with Tanooki, and he is hogging the food.

Tanooki, who if anything I worry about being too slim, gets 2-4 giant mealies daily. I am also considering feeding her additional protein through some lean meat or use some waxworms to put a little more weight on her.

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#371999 - 08/27/07 10:00 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Thank you guys for responding...ok maybe people want to know more of what I am up to...

Ed and I have been communicating with each other, and I have been communicating with Dr.Tristan about what Ed and I have been talking about. Well, Dr.T brings up a food that we ALL feed (or at least 9-1/2 out of 10 of us feed) that I did not know was protein.

I have been waiting to see if someone else was going to list this ingredient we offer as a protein source. But who knows, maybe I am not the only one that didnt know that. dunno

Come on now, you dont think I am going to turn over the answer so quickly do you?

But the whole thing comes down to maybe we are just all feeding TOO much protein (without knowing it) and that is one of the reasons why our gliders are a bit fluffy??

Who wants to take a shot at it??
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#372015 - 08/27/07 10:11 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: Srlb]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Peggy, is it yogurt?

I have 3 large gliders, 1 VERY large glider and the rest are "normal" sized. I feed them all the same and am having a hard time with the one losing any weight. She did lose some grams though when her mate had surgery and couldn't eat anything solid, which meant no veggies or fruits (except baby 1st foods) ..is it a veggie? Corn? I'm still trying to figure out how she lost the weight. dunno
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#372066 - 08/27/07 10:53 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: SugarBlossoms]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
Peggy, is it yogurt


Nope, as my gliders are not big yogurt eaters at all.

Quote:
is it a veggie? Corn?


BINGO!! Good Job!!

Well, I am thinking I just gave it away with that hint...
With the permission given to me from Dr.T I will add his part of the email he sent me.

Quote:
The corn worries me a little for the protein content. But lots of people feed it. The most important thing to remember is moderation. A little bit of most things is okay. Alot of other things causes problems.


So I read this and Im like HUH???

So I write him back...

Quote:
you stated: "The corn worries me a little for the protein content."

Did you mean protein or phosphorous?


In which he responds:

Quote:
I meant protein. It is a really high level, I'd have to look up the exact amount.


Who would have thunk it? Not me thats for sure.Dont know why though, I mean its fed to dogs, cows, goats etc...just really never crossed my mind. But it sure does give food for thought huh?
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#372075 - 08/27/07 10:58 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: Srlb]
Lynsie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 8329
Loc: Quincy, IL 62305
I only have one 'really' big glider right now, she is about 200g. She gets fed the same as the rest of my gliders. My gliders are fed HPW, yogurt once a week, babyfood once a week, various fruits (honey dew, watermelon, cataloupe, papya, apples, grapes, blueberries, rasberries, blackberries), frozen veggies, and sugar snap peas. My gliders only get meallies occasionally since they are on the HPW and get yoggies about once a day.
_________________________
Lynsie,
LuckyYou Gliders


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#372076 - 08/27/07 10:59 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: Lynsie]
Lynsie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 8329
Loc: Quincy, IL 62305
I always knew that corn didn't help with the weight factor but I never knew that it was a source of protein.
_________________________
Lynsie,
LuckyYou Gliders


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#372116 - 08/27/07 11:43 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: Lynsie]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Hmmm, now what to do?!! She will attack me if I don't let her have her corn! LOL

After I said yogurt, I was thinking wait, they still got yogurt everynight but not the thawed veggies and fresh fruit. Didn't make sense that the fruits I feed would be high in protein.

I have to say this then, I was doing a "study" without realizing it and CORN is the culprit for my "oh fluffy ones"!! (I had forgotten about her losing the weight since I was so glad he could have solids again!) <<<< baaaaad mommy! shakehead
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#372121 - 08/27/07 11:45 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: SugarBlossoms]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
thanks Peggy! I never thought about looking up the veggies for protein amounts!
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#372137 - 08/28/07 12:09 AM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: Lynsie]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
I feed my three BML. Hiroshi was up to 190 and my vet said he needed to lose 30 grams. Keiko and Tomoki are "normal" weights. Mealies were the main culprit in his case, as well as overall food portions. I hand fed the others during the day and gave less at night, and he did lose down to 160 (over several months). He got back up to 170, I think in large part because I added mealies back to his diet.

Corn is a source of protein, but not a major animo acid source like meats and cheeses. Using the USDA Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, 100 grams of corn (sweet yellow frozen) has 3.02 grams of protein. By comparison, 100 grams of roasted chicken meat has 28.93 grams. For kicks, I looked up bread: 100 grams of enriched wheat flour white bread has 11.98 grams. (I used to have to count my proteins as well as sodium because of my renal failure.)

Using the other veggies allowed with my diet, corn does have more protein than raw baby carrots (100 grams has .64 grams of protein) and frozen green beans (1.80 grams of protein for 100 grams), but less protein that 100 grams of frozen green peas (5.21 grams of protein per 100 grams).

So, I'm wondering if there's more elaboration your vet can provide. Is it the combination of protein with phosphorus or sugar or fiber or fat? If it's just the protein content of the corn that's the culprit for weight gain, then I would think peas would be even worse. dunno
_________________________
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

• 2003: Hiroshi (M)
• 2009: Herbie (M)

:rbridge:
• 2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
• 2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
• 2010: BJ (M)
My gallery

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#372146 - 08/28/07 12:25 AM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: KattyM]
Lucky_Glider Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 340
Loc: Van Alstyne, Texas
My adult males are between 130 and 140 grams. The adult females weigh a little less. If you want to see some really fat gliders, read the book on the life of Des Hacket. Some of his were over 200 grams... :-)

Peggy, I think I PMd you on this as part of our discussion, but in the 'glider beach' draft I've only suggested one tablespoon of corn 3x a week. I'm looking forward to what Dr. Tristan has to say about that. He seems to be leaning on the side of moderation and rotation the way I am interpreting his quotes... Me and Gail are excited about tweaking that rotation with you and accounting for oxalates, etc. Should be fun! Thanks so much for your continued research on this. Having a suggested rotation approved by him will add a lot of credibility to the effort and we appreciate you pulling him in for its review.
_________________________
Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#372165 - 08/28/07 01:01 AM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: Lucky_Glider]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
I count the veggies and fruits I give our gliders, each glider gets 4 kernels of corn each night. I cut waaaay back on mealies too. I wonder if there is something else in corn that could contribute to weight gain?
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

Top
#372202 - 08/28/07 05:48 AM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: SugarBlossoms]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Peggy,
As you already know, I feed my gliders BML and have been for the past 20+ months. My Mareki has had a weight problem for her entire adulthood and in spite of many efforts to help her lose weight, she is consistently at about the 180+ gram range (+/- 10 grams)...
In an effort to help her with weight loss, I have been limiting her fruit, mealworm and corn/pea intake for almost 2 years - no effect whatsoever dunno The rest of my gliders get the standard mix that comes out of the frozen veggies bag - I don't ration the corn/peas for them at all - no effect on their weights either and they range from Luna @ 80 grams to Pepe at 170 grams (large, but not really overweight).
Don't know if that information helps you out or not, but if you need more specific data from me on each glider, let me know via PM...
Edited to add:
The reason for limiting Mareki's corn/pea intake was due to the high starch value in both of them. I never regarded either one of them as a "protein" before...


Edited by sugarglidersuz (08/28/07 05:50 AM)
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#372207 - 08/28/07 06:59 AM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: sugarglidersuz]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
I dont want anyone to get the wrong idea here. I am NOT saying NOT to feed corn.

What I was wondering, CAN THIS be part of the overweight issue we are seeing out there? Not saying for sure it is.

So many of us feed a PROPER diet and we are very watchful as to what we feed our kiddos. But most of us, if not all of us, feed corn. Some, such as myself, feed it on a nightly basis and have never considered the protein content(because I didnt know about it)and only the phosporus content.

I for one, never knew the high protein count in corn. I am just saying new things are coming up daily as to progress on the learning side of things. And makes the phrase *Everything In Moderation* mean even more.

As the saying goes, once you get the answer to one question a million more come to surface.

_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#372293 - 08/28/07 10:54 AM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: Srlb]
blockamon Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 563
Loc: Lynchburg, VA
Corn as a protein source? What kind are we talking about?

White corn is about 3% protein. Green Peas by contrast at 5%. Also, spinach and broccoli are both 3% protein.

At these levels, you'd need to feed A LOT to equal the protein in meat or a standard BML / HPW mix. However, if you are feeding lots of the veggies above, it is worth noting that they can add about 20% or so to the protein of the diet (assuming you feed no more than about 1 tsp. of them a night).

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#372346 - 08/28/07 12:35 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: blockamon]
Lucky_Glider Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 340
Loc: Van Alstyne, Texas
Peggy and I are working together on this to come up with a "standard" suggestion of fruit/veggie rotation for the 'glider beach' idea. I think we have a good starting point, but we want to make sure this protein idea (or oxalates) are not overlooked.

Gail and I have been using the www.nutritiondata.com site as a main source for nutitive values and it is a handy site.

At any rate, it may interest you to know that while fruits and veggies are not generally eaten for protein, there are proteins in many frutis and veggies, not just corn.

We think it's important to look at the absolute values of these components in order to get your bearings. For example:

White Corn = 15.6 grams (not milligrams) per cup
Peas = 7.9 grams (not milligrams) per cup
Carrots = 1.38 grams (not milligrams) per cup

A cup is about 16 tablespoons...

So to put this into context for a glider, assuming a serving size of a tablespoon, that would be:

White Corn = 0.97 grams per tablespoon
Peas = 0.49 grams per tablespoon
Carrots = 0.08 grams (not milligrams) per tablespoon

[just added as a point of interest]... And if you use a tablespoon of the popular mix of peas, carrots and corn, the approximate value of one "mixed" tablespoon is about a half a gram of protein....

I think this supports the suggestion that the fruits and veggies we feed with our diets do indeed have some bearing on the overall nutritive value of the diet as a whole.

This is a great post and I think we are really getting somewhere here with this discussion.


Edited by Lucky_Glider (08/28/07 12:40 PM)
_________________________
Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#372401 - 08/28/07 01:56 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: Lucky_Glider]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
Thank You Peggy and Ed for taking the time to do this!
I have one glider who's at a hefty 187g's and my other one is 167g's. They both are on the same diet.
P's diet, with 5 mealies in the morning, 5 in the afternoon, and 5 in the evening.
Yogurt as a licky treat twice a week
and gliderade once a day.

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#372410 - 08/28/07 02:20 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: LSardou]
Lucky_Glider Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/04/07
Posts: 340
Loc: Van Alstyne, Texas
Linda, are the mealies part of the diet?
_________________________
Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#372443 - 08/28/07 03:22 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: Lucky_Glider]
mrsshoe1434
Unregistered


Hello all, okay I put the gliders back on the HPW, I have done this now for a little over a week. They HATE it.. They were eating the PML great infact to the point of licking it clean. They are not eating much fruit or veg. Any suggestions would be great.. Today was the first day in a week or there about they got mealies. I thought if I cut them out they would be hungrier. LOL.. NOT.
sarah

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#372467 - 08/28/07 04:04 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: ]
kaylakala
Unregistered


Wow protien is corn???? My guys are on HPW Dart was a chunk when I got him and still is. Fizzgig was underweight. He's okay now I do sneak him mealies when I have him without Dart.:)

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#372549 - 08/28/07 06:47 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: Lucky_Glider]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Lucky_Glider
Linda, are the mealies part of the diet?

Yes, they are. According to the diet, they are allowed 20 mealies each every other day. I talked with Pricilla and asked if I could break that down into the 5 x3/day instead of the 20 q.o.d. and she said that it was alright.

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#372574 - 08/28/07 07:43 PM Re: Overweight gliders & Proteins.... [Re: LSardou]
gizzy0
Unregistered


ooo i have two chunky girls, roseanne and skittles, roseanne came to me chunky, skittles has packed the pounds on over the past six years! then i've got my gizmo, he's just a tiny bit chunky, anyhow, i don't remember the weights i had, but i can get them again,

I always knew corn was fattening, but not protien, mine get fed the bml, two cubes for the three, i wanted to cut back, trying to get the gals to slim down, also they get six mealies each every other day, a tsp. yogurt every other day, and mixed veggies nightly, and then all nature boiled chicken every other night. with a wide range of fruits. i've noticed rossie, loose a little bit, but we'll see it's only been a few months on the bml and cut back of certain foods.

but i do think i'm going to try and lessen the corn too! grin

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