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#379352 - 09/08/07 08:22 PM lump under chin
TheGliderPouch
Unregistered


I have a female glider that I have been worried about for the last month or so - she just hasnít been acting herself. She had gotten pretty thin too. So, I took her to the vet to see if anything was wrong with her. The vet said she looked great. Teeth were good, fur was good, eyes were good...etc... It has been a couple of weeks since then, and I haven't ever felt like she was back to normal. Tonight I was feeding everyone, and got her out. I started petting under her chin and felt a lump. It isn't huge (you can't see it noticeably), but you can definitely feel it. Iím relieved that I have finally found what is wrong with her, but I am worried about what I found! worried I know gliders can get gum diseases and lumpy jaw - what do you think this is? How curable is it?!

Thanks everyone~

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#379405 - 09/08/07 09:47 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: ]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
I am so sorry to hear that your little girl is not doing well. It's really hard to say what could be wrong. My thought would be possibly an infected tooth, or gums. I would bring her back to the vet asap to have it re examined. She will probably have to have this drianed, and put on antibiotics. I will keep your little girl in my thoughts and prayers. Please let us know. hug2

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#379474 - 09/08/07 11:33 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: LSardou]
partyofsix
Unregistered


I agree with Linda. Keep us informed. hug2

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#379503 - 09/09/07 12:40 AM Re: lump under chin [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
It could be a number of things with a range of causes. vet will need to look. When one of mine developed a bump under the chin, it was an infection forming from getting something wedged in her front lower teeth. She's doing fine now, but here's her thread:

http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/357061#Post357061

Do have the vet check her teeth along with other possibilities. Due to location, it may be tricky to drain, and if it's tooth related, may not be a good idea.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#379566 - 09/09/07 05:27 AM Re: lump under chin [Re: Xfilefan]
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 7297
Loc: Quincy, IL
I agree with Jen, one of the first signs that my gliders peridontal issues were flaring up again was a lump under the jaws.
_________________________
Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be



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#379568 - 09/09/07 05:37 AM Re: lump under chin [Re: glidrz5]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
hug2 Awww Lauren! I'm sorry to hear this!!! frown

You've gotten great advice already, take her to the vet as soon as possible.

Badge lost a front tooth the other night, he's going back to get an x-ray and see what else we need to do. I'm really upset after getting an "all clear" on his teeth!

Rory is doing great and growing so fast!! She will be caught up with Sarah soon! smile

Sending prayers for your little one!
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#379675 - 09/09/07 01:45 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: SugarBlossoms]
TheGliderPouch
Unregistered


OK. I talked to the vet today (I was amazed that he picked up on a Sunday!) and he said that he might be able to lance it (depending on what it is) - and put her on antibiotics...but he isn't sure, he will have to see her. I asked if he would have to put her down for that, and he said probably not - which is good smile She will be seeing the vet tomorrow.

I looked in Athena's mouth, and could see anything irregular...but she wasn't saying "awww" or holding still...

I am so glad that I finally know what is wrong with her though! - It is better than seeing her sick and not knowing.

Bridget ~ I am sorry to hear that Badger is having more dental problems! I hope he gets better soon! Athena is Rory's mommy, and one of my sweetest gliders heart Rory catching up with Sarah!? - she must be getting HUGE then! lol

Thanks so much everyone thanks

~I'll keep you updated


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#380296 - 09/10/07 02:13 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: ]
TheGliderPouch
Unregistered


On the way to the vet hug2 wish Athena luck!

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#380304 - 09/10/07 02:21 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: ]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
Sending you tons of hugs, well wishes, and prayers. Will be anxious to hear..... hug2

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#380412 - 09/10/07 04:49 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: LSardou]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
How did it go? Keeping you both in my thoughts and hope it is something that will clear up quickly! hug2
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#380441 - 09/10/07 05:17 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: sugarlope]
TheGliderPouch
Unregistered


The vet is almost certain that it is lumpy jaw. It is a very hard lump, and it isn't an abscess. He got a good look at all of her teeth, tongue, gums - and he said everything looks great - not related to her teeth at all. He put her under for about five minutes...he cut open the "bulge" and he wasn't able to cut it open (like an abscess). He did remove some of it...but he didn't do too much, as it is connected to her delicate jaw. He gave me some antibiotics for her (ones that will most likely do the trick). The bacteria that he took are going to the lab to be cultured. Once we know exactly what kind of bacteria it is, he will possibly change her antibiotic. She is doing fine right now though smile - bright eyes and lots of energy.

Does anyone know any threads or links that have more info about lumpy jaw?

Thanks so much everyone! hug2

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#381135 - 09/11/07 02:48 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
All 'lumpy' jaw is is an infection in there-technically of a certain type of bacteria we don't have here, but the result is the same. An abscess, or enclosed infection, is what the lump is in that case. All that distinguishes it is that it's not dental, though similar things can start with the teeth. Sometimes (like with my Riker) infection diffuses through the tissue and there is nothing to drain-and it may invade bony tissue. Long term meds may be needed if shorter courses fail (it finally took a 3 month course on 3 meds with him, after fighting it on and off for over a year, to get rid of it). With him, it spread into the bony tissue over his sinuses, and showed up on Xray, but did not involve his teeth at all. (see attached pic) Lyah's is dental in nature-improved since she's lost most of her teeth, but still has 2 at issue and we're still fighting it (started in February)-but hers is also a diffused infection...meaning no pocket, nothing to drain or culture. Here's what Riker's Xrays looked like at the worst of the infection and during treatment

Edit: the actual condition 'lumpy jaw' actually only applies to macropods-or larger marsupials like kangaroos. You can search for information online, but do keep that in mind with information you find-none of it will be geared for a glider. Because of people continually pointing that out, we tend to refer to the same condition on here in a glider as abscess or facial infection. If you want I can try and find Riker's old threads (would be starting late 2004) that walked through our struggle with his. Then my Lyah and Chris' threads, although caused by teeth, similar in treatment, unless your vet is talking about some kind of a bony growth or calcification?


Attachments
RikerXray110104 Not Normal.jpg (27 downloads)
Description: Xray 1-showing infection-abnormal

RikerXray111504 Normal.jpg (20 downloads)
Description: Normal followup Xray




Edited by Xfilefan (09/11/07 03:04 PM)
Edit Reason: add info
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#383918 - 09/15/07 03:20 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: Xfilefan]
TheGliderPouch
Unregistered


Thanks so much Jen thanks

I am still waiting for the culture...It was supposed to be done yesterday, but when I called they said it won't be in till Monday. mad

Athena is doing ok...I guess...she isn't cleaning her self very well, and I can't get her to eat much. Any suggestions on getting her to eat? Her jaw sore, which is why she doesn't want to eat...but I am worried not eating could kill her...even if the lumpy jaw is beginning to be cured. I am thankful that she is drinking lots of water though.

Quote:
Sometimes (like with my Riker) infection diffuses through the tissue and there is nothing to drain-and it may invade bony tissue.


How would what my glider has be different than this? - Was what Riker had considered "lumpy jaw"?

Will meds make the lump go away completely? If she is on the right meds, how long would it take to heal? I'm so worried about my baby cry Did Riker lose a lot of weight? If you could find that old thread that would be GREAT!

As soon as I find out more about the culture...or if anything changes, I will update. Thanks everyone smile

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#383960 - 09/15/07 04:39 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: ]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
Lauren, what diet do you feed?
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#383983 - 09/15/07 06:04 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: BeckiT]
TheGliderPouch
Unregistered


I feed the PP diet, but I have been blending it into a soup for Athena...because there is a better chance that she will actually eat some of it - if it doesn't hurt her mouth as much.

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#383984 - 09/15/07 06:05 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: BeckiT]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
Lauren, have you looked into feeding her Darcy's diet?

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#383985 - 09/15/07 06:07 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: LSardou]
TheGliderPouch
Unregistered


I have added ensure - to keep her weight up (although it doesn't seem to be helping) I'm just trying to get nutrition into her any way I can.

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#383999 - 09/15/07 06:33 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: ]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
Lauren, have you tried liquefying it and feeding it to her by syringe?
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#384002 - 09/15/07 06:41 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: BeckiT]
TheGliderPouch
Unregistered


Yep...she already HATES the syringe (meds).

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#384018 - 09/15/07 07:26 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: ]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
hmmmmm... maybe liquified and in one of the bird trough style feeders dunno
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#384051 - 09/15/07 08:37 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: BeckiT]
TheGliderPouch
Unregistered


I blend her diet really well, then put it in a small dish...and she just doesn't eat much.

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#384053 - 09/15/07 08:39 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: ]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
you may have to force feed her if she starts to lose too much weight worried Maybe contact Jen/xfilefan and see if she has any ideas dunno
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#384149 - 09/15/07 11:26 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: BeckiT]
TheGliderPouch
Unregistered


I'm going to be calling my vet for sure tomorrow morning (it is too late now). I just gave her her meds, and the threw them back up about thirty seconds later. I didn't let her shake her head...but she still didn't want the medicine. I don't think that medication is helping her at all if she is just losing everything in her stomach when she takes them... I'm so worried about her, and I'm afraid I could lose her. I'm going to e-mail Jen...

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#384161 - 09/15/07 11:47 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: ]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Oh no Lauren frown

We are sending more prayers for Athena and you, I pray she gets well and eats!

Make sure she isn't getting dehydrated. IF she is dehydrated, the Ensure will make it MUCH worse as it turns to "clay" in the gliders' body, absorbing the liquids. (I hope I explained that right)

I would give her anything nutritious at this point just to get food into her. Baby foods (no garlic or onion added), boiled chicken, eggs, fruits, anything she WILL eat.

What did she weigh? What does she weigh now? Keep a check on her weight daily to see if she is losing or gaining and how much.

Ask your vet about showing you how to Sub-Q and taking the "IV" (liquids) and syringes home with you in case of emergency. I keep those things here just in case.

Let me know if you need anything girl!!

HUGS
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

Top
#384214 - 09/16/07 03:15 AM Re: lump under chin [Re: SugarBlossoms]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I got your PM hug2

I just went through your thread but didn't see it...which antibiotic (s) is she on? If Baytril particularly, and she began to vomit after meds STOP THE MEDS until you see the vet. In sensitive animals it can actually cause them to vomit to death causing dehydration and of course no food in them. I'm not sure if others do the same thing, but I know that Baytril is known for it. If she can keep food down, but not the meds, she may be having a reaction to the antibiotic.

Is what he removed tissue-like a cyst or tumor? If big enough, it could be interfering with her tongue movement and/or swallowing (I haven't seen it, just speculation). If she is still refusing to eat, Ensure, BML (watered), HPW, or PML by syringe is what I would recommend...if she continues not eating she will not have the strength or resources to fight this, plus her stomach won't be able to handle large amounts and she won't be able to very quickly even if she wanted to. I forced Riker to eat every 2 hours, about .05 cc food (at the time, BML no wheat germ or Ensure) and another .05cc fluids, plus meds for about 3 weeks around the clock to pull him through his HLP-he would not eat on his own-before he started eating again. That number (amount of food) may not apply for all gliders-some may be able to handle a little more and some less, but you don't want it coming back up from overdoing, or it defeats the purpose. Other than that you can tempt her appetite with favorite treats (crush a yogurt drop with a spoon and let her lick up the powder, for example)-but she needs nutrition if she is to fight. When we say "anything she'll eat" that includes odd items you wouldn't normally feed (but aren't harmful)...a few shreds or small cube of cheese, blueberry muffin, a spoonful of melted vanilla ice cream or milkshake, for example.

If it's a cystic growth in there the vet might want to consider removing as much as he safely can (and send a sample for biopsy-I know he already sent out for a C&S) to try and get pressure out of the way it might be putting on things.

Quote:
she isn't cleaning her self very well

This is a sign of a VERY sick glider. It's time to pull out all the stops. I know they don't like the syringes, but it's coming down to she eats or loses the fight...if she won't: put it down the hard way. Go slow so she doesn't inhale it, aspiration pneumonia would not be a good thing. Trust me, when all is said and done, she will forgive you for shoving things down.

Sub-q's are good to have on hand, but if you can get it down by syringe, oral fluids will actually do her more good, and is more easily accessed and used by the body more quickly...sub-q is great in a crisis, but slower to absorb than in the stomach, thus takes longer to be available for the body to use.

Her lack of appetite can very well be due to more than just the lump-I've seen gliders eat after dental surgery, and they still groom so do not take this lightly. A small dose of Torb for pain might help (and may not, but worth trying).

KEEP HER WARM. She sounds like she's sick to the point she may have trouble doing that herself...if you can keep her on you in a pouch, or in your shirt or jacket to share your body heat that would be best. If her energy is going to try and regulate her body temp, it can make it harder to fight the infection. That is one thing you can do for her that is very simple.

Please keep us updated, and let us know how the vet visit goes. hug2

NOTE: if something doesn't go right and you can't get her in in the morning, find another vet to see her, even if they need to consult-I really don't think a visit can wait at this point.



Edited by Xfilefan (09/16/07 03:17 AM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#384217 - 09/16/07 03:28 AM Re: lump under chin [Re: Xfilefan]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
And Riker's thread doesn't seem to be in Health any more. The above Xrays are the same ones that were in it, though. Everything I told you was mostly learned with him when he was critical, and it pulled him through when even the vets thought he was going to die. It took 24/7 care, and it was anything but easy his first 6 months. He was a little over a year when we went through the facial swelling-in his case in the cheek, enough to cause his eye on that side to bulge. We went through rounds of meds for almost a year, finally a 3 month course on 3 different antibiotics to clear it and it hasn't been back. I also made some dietary changes and eliminated certain treats at that time...no nuts/seeds, cereals, or dried fruits with any sharp edges as treats (chewy is okay, hard or sharp is a big NO in my house). We don't know where it started, and it did not involve his teeth. There were no visible wounds or anything in the mouth, and since he has never had a cagemate, no chance of injury from another glider. It did spread up into his sinus and skull by the time of the first Xray-it looks distorted because the infection in the bony tissue was refracting the Xrays as they went through.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#384269 - 09/16/07 11:31 AM Re: lump under chin [Re: Xfilefan]
TheGliderPouch
Unregistered


I took Athena to the vet this morning. He gave me some apatite "encourager", calcium, and vitamin E. He wants her to get stronger before he puts her on another medication. We have stopped the first medication, which was clindamycin.

Quote:
Is what he removed tissue-like a cyst or tumor?


He doesn't think it is a tumor (she is only a few months over a year). He should be getting the report back from the lab tomorrow, and then we will know more about what it is.

I am hand feeding her. It is really hard to get her to take it (I feel like I'm going to crush her when I hold her) but she is swallowing, and not shaking her head. Last night I mixed some applesauce with some honey and her vitamins - and she ate about a tablespoon on her own.

She will be down my shirt all day so that she stays warm.

My vet wants an update later today to see how she is doing. If she doesnít seem to be getting any better (in the next day or so), he wants to do an x-ray to see if anything else is going on, because it is not normal for a glider with her condition to be acting the way she is.

Thanks so much,

Iíll keep you updated.

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#384346 - 09/16/07 02:11 PM Re: lump under chin [Re: ]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
Jen - not sure if any of these are the threads you're looking for dunno , but these are what I could find:
Riker Overgrooming

Cmdr Riker has an Upper Jaw Infection

Cmdr Riker's facial infection is back AGAIN


Edited by sugarlope (11/01/08 07:15 PM)
Edit Reason: fixed links
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#384722 - 09/17/07 12:44 AM Re: lump under chin [Re: BeckiT]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Those are them-and there's something wrong with the links. Click on them and all you get is Access Denied. Please use your back button to return to the previous page. dunno Which forum?
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#384733 - 09/17/07 01:20 AM Re: lump under chin [Re: Xfilefan]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI


Edited by sugarlope (11/01/08 07:16 PM)
Edit Reason: fixed links
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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