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#397030 - 10/12/07 08:34 AM Weird Noise...?
tigiris1721
Unregistered


I kept hearing Rocco make this weird hissing / fighting noise. He was in the pouch with Aimee, so i thought they were fighting.
But noticed that Rocco was the only one making the hissing noise. On Wed was when this started.
I didnt know why he was making that noise. Everytime i would check the pouch he would just look up at me innocently.

Yesterday he was outside the pouch and making the hissing noise. I checked the cage and he was hissing at his cloaca area.

He doesnt have his bald spot yet. But its starting to show.
Could this be that he is maturing? I did notice his "thing" sticking out. but just a hint of pink.

i am worried that he is having trouble taking it out, or something. He keeps making the hissing /fighting noise even this morning.
But i keep checking his area and its not mutilated.

whats going on?

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#397035 - 10/12/07 08:44 AM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Get him to a vet right away! It could be the start of a UTI (Urinary Tract Infection) and it needs to be treated before he does start to SM... Please let us know what the vet says. Ask for an antibiotic even if nothing shows up in the testing. Tests to ask for are Fecal Float AND Smear and Urinalysis.

Moving this over to Health & Hygiene now...
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#397050 - 10/12/07 09:18 AM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: sugarglidersuz]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
Suz gave you good advice. I also would suggest to get him into an ecolar until you can get him to a vet. He could possibly overgroom, and or go after his penis and cause damage.
Here is a link on How to make an ecolar
Please keep us posted. Sending you hugs and prayers.

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#397155 - 10/12/07 12:35 PM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: LSardou]
kipluck Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 239
Loc: Orem, UT
Hissing is usually a sign or distress. If he is looking down there, he could be trying to pee... but hurting...

UTIs are miserable, but easily curable with meds from a vet. But WITHOUT TREATMENT, a glider can DIE from a UTI. My poor little rescue boy had one back when I first adopted him, and it was pretty bad. I am very VERY glad I got him to a vet.
_________________________
BethAnn aka: Kipluck
I miss you, my babies, Epiphany Jo, Lilo,& Heber! :rbridge: :rbridge: :rbridge: http://www.sugarshock.homestead.com
http://www.critters2go.homestead.com

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#397164 - 10/12/07 12:56 PM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: kipluck]
PeeperKeeper
Unregistered


Yup! Off to the vet with you! Go on! Scoot!

Sorry, I'm being a little flippant, but I agree with previous posts that you need to get him in. I'm not sure I'd put the ecollar on quite yet, unless you do notice him paying too much attention to the area. Ecollars are so stressful for them, but SOOOO important when they are indicated. I would definitely get one ready in case. If you're able to keep a close eye on him constantly, you can wait with putting it on, but if he will be unsupervised for a while, you should use it to be safe.

Oh, I would also talk with the vet about pain meds. If he has a bad UTI, pain meds could be needed to keep him from SMing.

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#397304 - 10/12/07 05:20 PM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: ]
Brittney
Unregistered


I agree on the vet! Please keep us posted!!

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#397691 - 10/13/07 02:07 PM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: ]
tigiris1721
Unregistered


I took Rocco to the vet this morning. vet said that he looked healty . He checked his teeth, stomach, nose, and cloaca. He did a test in his poop all they found was pollen (from his diet), and one flagellete protozoan (i think thats wat he said) i do remem the word flagellete.

he started massaging his cloaca glands , and took out the secretions from both glands. and slowly his "thing" came all the way out. all looked healthy. He didnt do a urinanalysis because Rocco stopped hissing already and because feeling around his stomach he didnt notice that his bladder was enlarged. said that it wasnt neccessary , unless he showed that he was getting worse.

After all the poking and prodding, Rocco went back in his pouch to clean up. and liked his cloaca area like 3-4 time. Not one hiss!! i was super hopeful.
the vet said that if he is not hissing now, that it could just be that he had his cloaca gland impacted.

but guess wat... when we left the vet driving on the way home. again the hissing noise.
so now im worried again.

if its not a UTI wat could it be?

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#397732 - 10/13/07 04:46 PM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: ]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
I would suggest that you have the vet do a urinalysis on him to check for a UTI as well as for crystals in his urine.

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#399275 - 10/16/07 08:35 AM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: LSardou]
tigiris1721
Unregistered


Rocco still is not eating, only a tiny bit of food.
And his stools are loose. I have made sure he gets lots of water. To keep from dehydrating.
But im worried about him.
He doesnt want to eat worms.
I gave him a pine nut , he ate half.
He would lick only a little bit of fruit.

I am worried that he is not eating enough .
should i force feed him?
I am going to take him back to the vet.
and do the urine analysis, even though he has stopped hissing so much at his "thing".
Maybe he was just hissing there because he had diarrhea?
Now his poop is more formed.
i dont know wat caused this.
all my other glider eat the same diet. and they lick thier bowls clean. But Rocco's bowl
practically looks the same in the morning.

Other than the urine analysis wat other tests should be done? I didnt do the
urine analysis b4 because i was afraid of him passing away while he was under anesthesia.

Maybe its just that thier waterbottle is not working very well and its
causing him to have loose poop? Im hoping that he is not very sick , and its just
something very simple that i have overlooked.
??????

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#400071 - 10/17/07 10:45 AM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: ]
tigiris1721
Unregistered


Noticed yesterday that Rocco was liking his Pom Pom and doing the hissing sound. Is normal?

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#401176 - 10/19/07 07:30 AM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: ]
tigiris1721
Unregistered


Please anyone know?


Edited by tigiris1721 (10/19/07 07:30 AM)

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#401185 - 10/19/07 07:43 AM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Not all vets (no disrespect) are overly bright when it comes to gliders. First, there should be NO protozoa...that should be treated with Flagyl (aka metronidazole). Second, they can't diagnose whether he has a UTI or not without a urinalysis. I seriously doubt his anal glands (the ones in the cloaca) are infected unless enlarged, since I've been through it with 2, and had one go thru surgery to have them removed. Milky white secretions there are normal, and they should NOT be expressed except VERY cautiously to avoid damaging them-they're very fragile.

The sound you are describing is the pre SM sound-if it continues he will start chewing at himself most likely if left untreated. A good vet would have treated for the possibility of a UTI, which is what I would recommend, with a broad spectrum like Baytril or Clavamox, plus the Flagy to take care of anaerobics/parasites-the category protozoa fall under.

I'd also recommend if you can't get this one to cooperate try finding another. Sorry if this is sort of to the point-I'm at work and could be interrupted any sec and just wanted to get the info down.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#401186 - 10/19/07 07:44 AM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: Xfilefan]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
The loose stools fit with a parasite infection (aka protozoa)..ones seen most commonly in gliders are giardia and trichomonas.

Your little guy sounds like he's had an infection and is getting sicker-he needs treated asap. Please keep us updated. worried


Edited by Xfilefan (10/19/07 07:47 AM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#401188 - 10/19/07 07:46 AM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: ]
TracyLynn
Unregistered


I agree that a urinalisis is in order and a fecal float/smear would propaply also be a good idea to be on the safe side. I do not understand the anesthesia comment though since the test are run off urine samples - and most gliders peee on you as soon as you get them out of the pouch at the vet anyway. What diet are you feeding him? Maybe we can give you suggestions to try to get him to eat a bit better - also is he alone or does he have a cage mate?

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#401764 - 10/20/07 12:23 PM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: ]
tigiris1721
Unregistered


Well i feel he has not been overly concerned, or concered at all about my suggie. Yet i still got to him because if there ever was an emergency the only vet who is available and knowledgable afterhours , is him. All other emergency vet people do know enough of sugar gliders so even under a life-threatning emergency do not aaccept a sugar glider.
He is not very good at calling me back either. I need more from him , but i dont want to offend him anyway , for fear that it will affect how he treats me and Rocco as his clients.

Well i went to the vet friday. i am tired of not seeing rocco eat enough. Even though i try to coax him to eat about 4 times a day. he takes only a little. Without me force feeding. He weighed before about 55g now he weighs 46g. This is from seeing him last saturday! And last sat the only thing he told me to do was to wait to see if he gets worse. Cause he didnt want to presricbe any meds yet.

When i went back finally he saids that is hould force feed him (finally some advise to a course of action!) and he gave me Clavomox.

About the trichomonas the technitian said there wasnt enough to actually be bad. and that he would ask the Dr.
that was on tuesday. About the protozoan he said he only found one. that it is normal find some . now i am doubting everything he says to me.

he cant find wat is wrong with Rocco.
and the reason he would have to put Rocco under for the Urine analysis is that he doesnt pee lately when u take him out . he just poops. Anyway he said he didnt need to test his urine cause he believed it is not a UTI.

He is a good vet. or so they say. Avian and Exotics here in miami. But i have already lost one sugar glider to him and he coudnt figure out wat was going on with he either. i am
so upset, i dont to lose Rocco.
He doesnt want to eat worms!!!!!!
I was supposed to get a call back friday about the fecal float, guess wat no call!!!
called him but he wasnt available!!!

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#401769 - 10/20/07 12:33 PM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Trich should never be present in a glider at all. I would think he's not eating because he doesn't feel well. Unfortunately, you're going to have to force the issue, or find one that will work with you-and quickly. With parasites, they get most of the nutrition the glider DOES eat. Diarrhea will compound the issue with dehydration. Tell them it's your money and your glider...if they don't want to test, fine, treat it anyway. I don't believe he's strong enough for anesthesia at that weight-it very well could kill him. Keep putting food/fluids down him. He may not have much time left if you can't get them to do something. worried 46 grams is critical for an adult glider.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#401772 - 10/20/07 12:45 PM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: Xfilefan]
tigiris1721
Unregistered


well yesterday he gave him a vitamin b shot . He said that it should cause him to have an appetite. and it did! he was awake yesterday night (instead of sleeping) and was hungry. a definite change. this morning i found him awake too looking into his food dish and looking at last nights food. i cleaned his food and gave him new food. Gliderade with gerber sweet potato. earlier this morning i force feed hi some of it. and gave him his medicine. The Dr recommended i give his pepto bismal too.
other than him having an appetite his poop is more solid. But looks like Gelitin to me. ithink its just the vitamin shot that is affecting the consistance of his poop.

and he is only 4 months


Edited by tigiris1721 (10/20/07 12:49 PM)

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#401778 - 10/20/07 01:07 PM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
My vet won't usually put a glider under until they're heavier than 65 grams. It's not safe. I don't know what else to say except his symptoms aren't normal, and I don't think b vitamins are anything but a very temporary help, and that he needs the proper antibiotics.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#401790 - 10/20/07 01:43 PM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: Xfilefan]
Brittney
Unregistered


So is he on antibiotics yet or not?? WHY OH WHY is this vet not taking this seriously?? I am by NO means a glider expert (like Jen wink ) but I DO know that losing as much weight as fast as he has is cause for major concern! Is there NO other vet you could take him to? My vet here in SLC (same as Jen's ) is EXCELLENT and doesn't mind doing phone consults if your vet is willing to do that. The number is 801-485-4736 in case you need it. She's super nice - she might even just give you her advice over the phone if you call (like what tests to run, what does and doesn't matter to look for, etc. ). I agree the vitamins seem like a temporary fix as they may make him feel better, but won't help him get better. If what Jen says is true (I have faith) him eating without being on antibiotics could actually be counter productive. sounds like you might have to get your own game plan going and just tell your vet what you want done. It's a business, your money, he should let you run whatever tests you want. GOOD LUCK!

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#402224 - 10/21/07 03:24 PM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: ]
tigiris1721
Unregistered


Well Rocco is on Clavomox. And the vitamin b shot is doing wonders on Rocco's appetite. even though he is eating beter on his own i am force feeding some food, because he is not eating at his normal amount level.
His poop is looking better i think the Clavomox is causing his poop to have a little more consistance. I bought a digital postal scale. in order to weigh his progress. right now he is at 51g YEAH!!!

I am thinking of finding another vet. I will use Dr. Kramer for emergency . but it seems to be he has not taken enough interest in his patient Rocco. and i dont feel he is knowledgable enough about sugar gliders. He mayb a little Old Skool? He didnt know what HPW was.

and i mentioned to him wat Xfilefan said about the protozoan and the trichomonas , and he said that it is normal to have in normal amounts.

So i am thinking of talking to another vet. or atleast to have more ppl confirm that my Dr. is wrond and that Xfilefan is right.

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#402227 - 10/21/07 03:29 PM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: ]
Brittney
Unregistered


I would recommend finding another vet. When it comes to exotics you learn as you go, so if this vet simply hasn't dealt with a lot of gliders he might just be doing more guesswork than he lets on. There's a vet link page on this site that could help you find a better vet. I would feel confident in saying Jen knows what she's talking about - even MY vet (very good/exp with suggies) is confident in Jen's familiarity with sug's. GOOD LUCK with this one, keep us UTD!

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#402638 - 10/22/07 06:15 AM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I'm very sorry that Rocco is still having to go through all this worried I would definitely find a different vet at this point. To find ANY protozoa in the stool is NOT normal! If one Trich was found, then he needs to be treated with Flagyl right away. If not treated soon, he could become a fatality cry Please, please take him to another vet for a 2nd opinion... There are 3 vets listed in the database for the Miami area, please get Rocco to one of these vet's ASAP!
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#402645 - 10/22/07 06:54 AM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: sugarglidersuz]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Also, here are a couple of posts that really stress the importance of treating Trichomonads and their severity in gliders...
Why we quarantine...
Pray for Peepers!
Tired gliders after SGGA?

All of these threads were started by PeeperKeeper - she lost her glider to Trichomonads cry
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#402724 - 10/22/07 10:27 AM Re: Weird Noise...? [Re: sugarglidersuz]
tigiris1721
Unregistered


Yeah right now i have been kinda shopping around for another vet. What is good is that i have seen all the vets that know about sugar gliders in my area. From the vet listed in the link, two are from Avian and Exotics. I am leaving them, i will only use A & E when there is an emergency, there are the only ppl that can help after hours. what is good is that i have visited two other vets. including one that is not listed in the vet list.

i called both Clinics and posed both of them the same question. to see what they say about the protozaon and trichnomands. Hopefully i can talk to the Dr. see if in fact they are knowledgable about sugar gliders. I am supposed to be getting a call back.


Edited by tigiris1721 (10/22/07 10:31 AM)

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#403959 - 10/24/07 08:47 AM Re: Miami Vet and my Glider [Re: ]
tigiris1721
Unregistered


Well i took my glider to a different vet. I went to South Kendall Animal Clinic (Dr. Pane). I submitted a
request to add his Clinic to the miami vet list.

Let me tell u he is awsome!!! Ive gone to him once b4 but out of distance convenience i would go to avian & exotics (A&E). On monday i was able to talk to him over the phone and i told his Rocco's situation. I asked him about the trichomonas, whether they are supposed to be in the fecal. He said that by the medical book it is ok to have them in small about. BUTthat he treats for it anyway, because "...I am chicken." lol. Cant belive he said that. i thought it was funny but also great.

I loved his frankness. From the way he taked to me, he had a great attitude and vibe. So i went to the see Dr. Pane. They took a fecal sample from Rocco. And boomturns out he has Giardia!!!!!! WHAT!!! I was very upset i have gotten numerous samples from Rocco, and the tech at A&E sais that he was gonna check for Giardia, and it came out negative. They said they say trichnomonas on two occasions.
and all the other times he saw bee pollen .

i asked DR. Pane if he saw trichomonas "NO". He even invited me to look in the microscope, to check out the Giardia. There was a picture color chart of bacteria and so forth, next to the microscope to help classify. and sure enough i saw this little swimming thing!

So now i am relieved that I finally know what Rocco has. I have medicine for him. And it explains why he was hissing and hurting when cleaning his pom and his cloaca. Dr Pane says that it causes the abdomen to have cramps. and that it totally explains his loss of appetite and diarrhea. and also explains why he has been so crabby. i cant even move the pouch without a crab. i can put my hand in there and he wont bite me , so its not me. he is just crying in pain.

so now i have hope, and i just want him to get better fast.
Moral of this story is:
*U have to trust ur vet.
*if u dont, get another vet.
*u shoudnt be second guessing him.
*if u do, get another vet.

Because not matter if it is my vets fault or not that one of my gliders he was seeing passes away. I would always question myself if i didnt do enough to save him. So i am happy that i found another vet and in doing so saved Rocco's life.



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#403974 - 10/24/07 09:35 AM Re: Miami Vet and my Glider [Re: ]
reeny Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 1945
Loc: Miami, Fl
First of all let me second everything that you are saying. I am so sorry that you and Rocco have had to go through all this. I also go to Dr. Kramer here in Miami. He is the avian and exotic vet in the area. Very well qualified and respected.
I took my two WFB females to him when I first got them. I didn't come away feeling he really knew sugar gliders. Gave me some generic info of diet etc. But couldn't really answer specific questions.
I took the girls back in July or August because one of them threw up. He did another fecal but said everything was ok. I hope he is right. Talked to my vet that I bring my dogs etc to. He gave me the name of another vet but she did say Dr. Kramer was well qualified.
I know Tigiris, I know she has been through a lot. We have had discussions about trying to find another vet in the area. I am so glad she took Rocco to Dr. Payne.

Tigiris I hope Rocco continues to improve keep me posted.
_________________________
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&
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Petals
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#404211 - 10/24/07 03:01 PM Re: Miami Vet and my Glider [Re: reeny]
Wantiki2
Unregistered


Dr. Kramer neutered my twins with excellent results. However, I did get the feeling that he was not overly knowledgeable about gliders and, worse, I felt that he took very lttle interest in their overall health and did not do any kind of wellness or post-op check. He did not ask about diet or housing. No interest what-so-ever. Now I take my trio to Dr. Thomas Goldsmith at Dadeland Animal Hospital and I am quite satisfied. He saved my Tiki's tail after a nasty injury and SM'ing.

Dr. Kramer and all the staff at Avian & Exotic are, however, excellent when it comes to less exotic exotic's such as birds and reptiles.

Tigiris, I pray that Rocco continues to improve.

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#404237 - 10/24/07 03:33 PM Re: Miami Vet and my Glider [Re: ]
Msdoolittle Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 10/15/06
Posts: 582
Loc: Lake Worth, FL
I hope Rocco is feeling better soon! I am glad you found a vet you can trust and that Rocco is getting the proper treatment!
_________________________
~Janet~
Mom to 2 daughters (Laura & Kayla)
4 suggies (Scooter & Snickers, Coral,& Portia)
3 birds (Prince,Lucy,Sidney)
1 dog (Sammy)


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#406110 - 10/27/07 07:09 PM Re: Miami Vet and my Glider [Re: Msdoolittle]
tigiris1721
Unregistered


Yes i am happy that Rocco is doing better. Much better. He acctually is eating his fruits and veggies now. He has a better appetite. and i have been weighing him ever 2-3 days and he had gained weight. he was at the begining 46g when he was very sick. now with two feedings a day he is up to 57g. It has gone up this fast in a one week period! i am so excited!

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#406129 - 10/27/07 08:10 PM Re: Miami Vet and my Glider [Re: ]
Msdoolittle Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 10/15/06
Posts: 582
Loc: Lake Worth, FL
Wow! sounds like he is doing great! smile
_________________________
~Janet~
Mom to 2 daughters (Laura & Kayla)
4 suggies (Scooter & Snickers, Coral,& Portia)
3 birds (Prince,Lucy,Sidney)
1 dog (Sammy)


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