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#4072 - 10/16/02 11:26 PM I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen

Well, heres the long and the short of it ... I killed Gracie. I am the worst mother in the world and now I will pay for it with this ache in my heart. I have never been one to cage an animal. My birds are never confined, nor my cats or dog. I have been a glider mom for two years now and was among the totally ignorant when I got my first baby. He was so tiny I didn't want to stick him in a cage all by himself so I bought a playpen with tiny mesh on the sides and he lived happily in the center of my living room, climbing around but never over the sides because there was a slick vinyl at the top (about 6 inches) and he couldn't dig into it. When he finally got big enough to climb out he always came directly to me and we played and when he was tired he went to bed in his playpen (full of soft blankets and his own cotton rag sock.) When he got older I got him a friend, he loved her so, even though she was just a baby and slapped his face every time he would peek in on her. Still, he had never seen the inside of a cage and I saw no reason for it. They eventually fell in love and were very happy. I of course was too. We happened upon Gracie by chance. We weren't looking and were not sure if they would accept her, even though she was very young, but they took her right in and she became their baby in a way. They moved out of the playpen in the living room for a little more privacy I suppose and into a chili crock that sat unused on top of my fridge. I stuffed some blankies in there for them and they were snug and happy. Nature finally took its course and Mac and Junie became parents. Bouncing baby boys and they were so proud. Gracie was ecstatic. She would lie on top of Junie and watch those babies for hours. Mac was the perfect papa and would wash his babies and sit with them when Junie left the chili pot. Gracie would take her turn too ... never leaving the babies alone for more than a minute or two. I found this site and was so happy there were other people out there who felt the same as me, who loved these little guys like their own children. I read every post and the more I read the more scared I became. I decided I wasn't much of a mom, even though I loved them and fed them the very best of everything and made sure they were healthy. I was not protecting them from themselves, from the danger they could encounter in a house.Even though I closed every door, bought a toilet seat that the lid would not stay up on and removed every vase from my house there were still things that could and possibly would kill my babies if I did not put them in a cage. I scoured the net and found the biggest cage and fluffiest pouches and all the best selling toys. I ordered every luxury. I spared no expense as these are my babies and I wanted them to be happy and stay with me for as long as possible. The cage and goodies arrived a little more than a week ago. I set everything up and left the door open for a few nights, letting them get used to it. I finally gathered up my little family and moved them into their new home. This was two days ago. Last night I got out the pouch all 5 were sleeping in (there are 4 large pouches in there) Mac and Junie fought me when I got them out so I could check on the babies. I figured I would leave Gracie in there with them and took the pouch into the livingroom. My little boys were in the bottom, lying on top of Gracies lifeless body. Mac and Junie did not want to leave her. They had been lying on her so she was still warm. I am not sure if it was grief or she was smothered but my Gracie is dead and it is my fault. She was fine earlier in the morning but I could tell she was sad, she didn't know what she had done to be put in prison and looked at me so pitiful. I left the door open on the cage. I could not close it back. I left them out and was worried they would not go back for the babies but when I got up this morning Mac was in the pot on his back with both of his boys on his belly. When I looked in he wrapped his arms around them and covered them with his flaps so I couldn't see them. He had an accusing look on his face and crabbed like cujo. I deserved it I guess. Junie came to see me but just for a minute, she hasn't forgiven me either. I have this huge prison with all kinds of goodies in it if anyone needs one, I won't ever use it again. I am sorry this is so long but my heart is broken and nothing but the whole story would do.

#4073 - 10/16/02 11:42 PM Re: I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen [Re: ]

Boy!!! I really don't know what to say other than I am sooo sorry for your loss. Please don't be so hard on yourself because you are a great glider mom and were only trying to do the best for your little guys. The fact that you could let them roam free proves they were very bonded to you. Do you know what caused her death? My heart goes out to you in your time of sorrow. Give the rest of your guys lots of hugs and kisses, it will do you all some good.

#4074 - 10/16/02 11:52 PM Re: I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen [Re: Izzyandrileysmom]

I am so saddened to hear of your loss. This is not your fault! You put them in the cage to protect them, not to cause harm. Although they have been safe outside, there are so many hidden dangers that the cage really is a safer place. They simply weren't used to it.

It sounds as though perhaps Gracie was sick and passed. I do not believe she suffocated because she would have moved. And they kept her warm because they did not understand.

I'm so sorry! My thoughts are with you!

#4075 - 10/16/02 01:08 PM Re: I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen [Re: ]

I too am so sorry to hear of your little one passing. Do not blame yourself... it's not your fault. You loved them and did the best you could for them. Everything you did... leave the cage door open for a couple days for them to adjust... was perfect.

There are members who do not believe in caging their gliders, you were not alone in that belief. However accidents do occur, whether in the cage or outside of it. You do all you can and your gliders love you for it... please do not blame yourself.

#4076 - 10/16/02 01:10 PM Re: I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen [Re: ]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
OOOO Toni...I am also so very very sorry about Gracie's passing. Please don't be so hard on yourself, you are a wonderful glider mom and you were trying to do what you felt was best.

This could have been an accident, or grief I agree. However, just to be safe, in case it was illness...please be sure the rest of the family are ok healthwise.

Godspeed to you and yours,

Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams

"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"

#4077 - 10/16/02 01:50 PM Re: I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen [Re: ]

I am so very sorry for your loss. <img border="0" alt="cry" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" />

Something similar happened to me with my first glider, Moochi. I went to take him out to play one night, and he was lying cold in his new pouch. <img border="0" alt="cry" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> I was so mad at myself, thinking that it was my fault for taking away his old pouch and giving him a new one that he wasn't used to. I kept telling myself if he had only slept in his old pouch, he would have been okay.

The reality is that our little babies are really good at hiding illnesses. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Things can go wrong and we won't know about them until it is too late. You sound like the perfect glider mom that was only trying to to what was right for her babies, and it was the right decision. Gracie would want you to remember her and to not blame yourself. Your other little ones need you to be strong for them. <img border="0" alt="[Glider Angel]" title="" src="graemlins/gliderangel.gif" />
I will pray for you and your glider family.

<img border="0" alt="heart" title="" src="graemlins/heartpump.gif" /> My heart goes out to you. <img border="0" alt="heart" title="" src="graemlins/heartpump.gif" />

#4078 - 10/16/02 03:09 PM Re: I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen [Re: ]

other than the total disgust I see when they look at me and complete distrust they are healthy as horses. Mac didn't eat much last night but it was because he was busy moving his household back to the safety of the chili pot (which he did all by himself) so I left him a suck up snack in hope he might accept my sincere apology for this blunder. I am assuming it was a direct insult toward him for thinking he could not care for his little family and I intervened and botched the whole works. Most of my family and all of my friends think I am a weirdo for the requests I make when they visit. I have soooo many rules that most people have stopped visiting at all after 8:30 (they get up at 9:00 sharp, unless they are ummm making eyes at each other, then who knows when they might get out and socialize)nobody picks up their feet after 9, we shuffle around like decrepit old people, none of the doors leading outside are opened unless theres someone to run blocker,the bathroom is always closed off and the seat is down too just in case, if you open the fridge you better make darned sure theres nobody in it before you close it, any jar has a lid, nothing in a bag or box leaves the house unless its after noon, all purses are checked at the door, yes I am a little psycho about it but my family has accepted this and all my yelling when someone slips up. Gracie was healthy. She had been to the vet less than two weeks ago. Theres never been any kind of pesticide in my house period (its a new house too)every possible hole has been plugged with grocery bags and duct tape so no escapees, all fruit is washed, all meat is thoroughly cooked. I think it was grief, I broke her heart when I put her in prison and she could not understand I was "saving" her. Thank you all for your kind words, it truly helps. At least until I look at my daughter who still looks at me like Mac does, hopefully they will both forgive me.

#4079 - 10/16/02 03:22 PM Re: I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen [Re: ]
BeetleJuice Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 2724
Loc: Summerville, SC

I am so sorry for your loss. It really is not your fault. Putting them in the cage could not have caused her death. I can only think that there must have been some issue that you were unaware of. Gliders hide illness so well, that often we do not see the symptoms and when we do it is sometimes too late. Try not to be too hard on yourself and concentrate on the times that you did have her, and how happy you made each other. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

#4080 - 10/16/02 03:53 PM Re: I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen [Re: ]

Toni - I know you are heartbroken - your grief spills out in your words.

I don't believe for a minute that your baby died because you put them in there. I don't believe it is possible for a glider to die of depression that quickly and you have to believe that too.

Mac is moving his family to the chili pot because that's what he knows best, not because he dislikes his new home!

Noone in the world would ever believe you are a bad glider mom - that is absurd.

I know that right now it is easy for you to blame yourself but you have to know that you're not being fair to yourself.

Gracie knew you loved her and I am sure your others know the same. There is no forgiveness necessary - only healing.

Heal fast and well and when the time comes, Gracie will see you at the Bridge. I am so very, very sorry for your loss <img border="0" alt="heart" title="" src="graemlins/heartpump.gif" />

#4081 - 10/16/02 04:29 PM Re: I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen [Re: ]

Please don't blame did nothing wrong. Sometimes things happen that we may never undertand, but this was not your fault. Just hang in there....thoughts and hugs are with you.... <img border="0" alt="heart" title="" src="graemlins/heartpump.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Glider Angel]" title="" src="graemlins/gliderangel.gif" />

#4082 - 10/16/02 08:03 PM Re: I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen [Re: ]

I too am sorry for your loss. And I know everyone has said it, but I will say it too... PLEASE don't blame yourself. That can make it that much harder to grieve. I dont think you had any influence on Gracie's passing. I beleive that it is just a coincidence that it happened after you moved them to their new home.

One idea <img border="0" alt="exclamation" title="" src="graemlins/exclamation.gif" /> I had... IF you decided to try and move them back to their new home -> why not put the chili pot into the cage? I guess of course you run into the problem of getting it through the door if it is too big, but if it does fit, why not try that? Since they feel comfortable in the pot, and that way they could associate the cage with something they are comfortable with. Just an idea...

My thoughts are with you in this hard time. <img border="0" alt="heart" title="" src="graemlins/heartpump.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Glider Angel]" title="" src="graemlins/gliderangel.gif" />

#4083 - 10/17/02 08:30 AM Re: I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen [Re: ]

well Mac still isn't speaking to me. Junie brought the feather teaser so we could play for a bit but then when she was finished she gave me the cut direct and marched off home with her tail in the air, not so much as a see you later. I tried another peace offering (boiled chicken livers, sounds gross but they love em) and they ate those but nothing else, not even their mealies and they NEVER leave those. Mac will not even come in the room to torment the dog and that is his favorite past time. Once he figured out he could make the dog jump across the room in one leap he thought that was the coolest and he didn't even leap on him once. He will never trust me again and he was my little goof before. He sees me coming and he scampers off like I am Satan incarnate coming to gobble him up. My babies (Binx and Bosley) are even different now. Binx crabs the whole time I hold him (its driving Bosley crazy too cause he nods off between crabs and it scares him awake when he starts again) but Bosley is still really laid back and snoozy. I have truly made a mess of this and its breaking my heart in a million tiny pieces. When you look at them theres something about them that makes you want to just squeeze them and kiss them and love them. I have always been able to do just that and now I cannot. Will he ever forgive me? I miss the way it was before this whole disaster when they were every smile and good thing in my night, when I couldn't wait to see them at night and they couldn't wait to see me either (I even miss face hugs and they hurt!)

#4084 - 10/17/02 10:08 AM Re: I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen [Re: ]

I understand how sad you are having just lost my baby but you aren't a bad mom! I don't think she died because she was in a cage. I would take her body to the vet and see if they can find a cause of death. This is important in case she was ill so you know your other gliders are ok. Sometimes the vet can give you answers that will help to heal your heart. I might suggest limiting them to a room in your house rather than the whole house. In this way you know all the dangers of the room and they won't feel so confinded. <img border="0" alt="heart" title="" src="graemlins/heartpump.gif" />

#4085 - 10/17/02 11:34 PM Re: I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen [Re: ]

I think that all of you are really sad right now but with time all the broken hearts will heal. Just be there for them and I believe they will come around. You are all confused right now as to why and what has happened. Things will get better. Just like when the bonding process started... you have to be patient. My heart goes out to all of you but hang in there and it will get better.

#4086 - 10/17/02 12:33 PM Re: I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen [Re: Izzyandrileysmom]
BMXgirl Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 7078
Loc: USA
I cant really say anything more than whats already been lovingly said... <img border="0" alt="heart" title="" src="graemlins/heartpump.gif" />
Im so so very sorry....
Hugs to you...may time heal your hurt.
(Glider Anatomy, Info, & a wee bit of fun.)

#4087 - 10/18/02 08:19 AM Re: I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen [Re: ]

same here. I am very sorry.

#4088 - 10/18/02 10:14 AM Re: I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen [Re: ]

I swear I think I am going to need therapy before this is over with. First and foremost I miss my little Gracie so bad it hurts my heart. She was so much fun. I couldn't wait to hear her little sneezy sound telling me she was washing up to come get dinner ... she would be out in just a minute. I would sit and grin with anticipation, wondering what the little hussy was going to do tonight, knowing she would not let the night end without a big show. She was fixated on my boyfriends eyebrows and would sit on the back of the couch waiting for him to turn and look at her, when he did she would bark like a lunatic and slap him right in the eye. I have seen this grown man rolling in the floor with laughter over this tiny little fuzzlebutt. She would wait for him to go to bed so she could inspect them up close too ... then she would bite the offending eyebrow like she was saving him from something and wait for him to thank her for it. She had so much personality. Now that the rest of my family isn't speaking to me my nights are very lonely and uneventful ... nothing but humans to pass the time with. My daughter did at least say hello to me yesterday but Mac still treats me like I have the plague ... <img border="0" alt="upset" title="" src="graemlins/upset.gif" />

#4089 - 10/18/02 01:50 PM Re: I am going to die ... I never dreamed this would happen [Re: ]

Toni, I am so sorry too. They will come around in time. And your heart will heal in time, you will have those good memories of Gracies that will bring a chuckle instead of a tear. As for Mac and the others, they will come around. You might keep trying the "suck-up" behavior" and see if they come around. Talk to him, lovingly and tell him that you were doing what you thought was best to keep them safe and from getting hurt accidentally. Sending you lot's of glider hugs and prayers!
Take care


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