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#41886 - 04/01/05 03:20 PM Lizards as a protein source
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lizards are a natural pray source for gliders and I was wondering anybody out there feeds their glider feeder lizards. I know of a place where I can pick up feeder lizards for about the same price as I would pay for feeder mice...

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#41887 - 04/01/05 03:25 PM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


hmm good question!

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#41888 - 04/01/05 03:59 PM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Don't reptiles often carry salmonella (sp?) the same way chickens do? I would worry about not cooking them first.

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#41889 - 04/01/05 04:02 PM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


What are they selling as a feeder??? Anoles? Are they selling them live or frozen? Just be careful if they're live, they can bite back and the last thing you need is an injury on your hands. And yes, some lizards do carry salmonella, but not all.

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#41890 - 04/01/05 04:42 PM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


anoles and house geckos... They are live. I've owned both in the past and I have been bitten by both. Neither could break the skin, much less do any serious damage...

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#41891 - 04/01/05 04:49 PM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Personally I wouldn't want to take the risk of injury or salmonella...there are other sources of protein that you can provide...just MO. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

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#41892 - 04/01/05 06:20 PM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am curious about the possibility. Sugar gliders do eat lizards in the wild but of course their life span is a lot shorter too, and the salmonella thing bothers me.

I've had anoles too and I don't even remember them having teeth, I don't think they bite.

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#41893 - 04/02/05 04:40 AM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


What says that gliders eat lizards in the wild?
I don't really have an opinion one way or the other, but, I've never seen it scientifically quoted that gliders eat lizards.
I've seen it mentioned here and there, but there has to be some sort of reference for the info?

lol, why not, feed them lizards! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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#41894 - 04/02/05 04:58 AM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
Don't know about lizards but some toads secrete a toxin from their skin that will make a dog foam at the mouth. I have seen cats, chickens, and birds eat lizards. Never heard of a glider eating them but they probably would. Think I would do a little more research before offering them though.
Charlie H
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#41895 - 04/02/05 08:23 AM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


We have tons of house geckos around the yard and home. They tend to get smashed in doors, etc. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I haven't used any pesticides around here in a loooooong time (years), and I'm an organic gardener, so I wonder if it would be okay to feed them some from around here? I'm not sure I could actually do that, but I just wondered from reading this thread.

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#41896 - 04/02/05 11:13 AM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just wanted to mention that the chances from salmonella poisoning from miniature lizards species (I'm assuming it's any of the anole and house gecko species, Anolis and Hemidactylus species, seeing as they are quite commercially abundant, and available in the wild and domestic areas in the States) is quite low; perhaps as low as feeding pinkies or any other vertebrate. Salmonella (as well as other harmful bacteria like Campilobacter) is quite prevailent in turtles and some larger reptiles more than any other reptile species. Just be sure to feed the lizards directly after being killed if not live.

Also, Charlie is correct in saying that toads release a toxic secretion (from what is called the parotid gland at the sides of their eyes) however lizards don't have such poisons. Obviously, you also wouldn't want to be feeding Gila monster babies, for those of you living really south! LOL. I'd say small lizards would be safe but I have never fed lizards before...

Someone do let us know if you find it to be safe and not cause any adverse health side-effects...

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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#41897 - 04/02/05 11:22 AM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mikey's exactly right a/b the poisons... only truly poisonous lizards are Helodermatids (gila monster and beaded lizard) and I think even then it's only the gila that's truly poisonous...

he's also probably right a/b the possibility of salmonella... but I'm not positive...

it's an interesting idea... I'd like to know, like Ern pointed out, if they really do eat them in the wild, I would assume they do, but I've seen no conclusive evidence to that effect...

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#41898 - 04/02/05 11:32 AM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Also, I'd be afraid of intestinal parasites (both in wild and captive bred reptiles). There is honestly a broad plethora of different worms and flagellates as well as many other organisms that can exist in the lizards' digestive tracts, so you may want to be very cautious...

Perhaps if you could treat the lizards with a panacur solution or some other dewormer that would take care of that problem, but then it's a matter of having to go through all that trouble housing the lizards for several days through the repeated administering of the panacur. That may be a hassle. What you could do is you could house a series of house geckos (OMG these guys breed so easily, you can't go wrong!) and feed their babies. They lay their eggs in pairs and attach them to the aquarium glass or some other object in the cage. If they attach them to an object like a stick or peice of bark, you can easily transfer the eggs to another container to separate them from the adults, so to prevent any transfer of intestinal parasites and also cannibalism. The little guys are so quick! Once they hatch they are about an inch long (cricket-sized) and I'd imagine they'd be relished by a glider!

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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#41899 - 04/02/05 02:28 PM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The following links state that lizards are a natural food source for sugar gliders:

http://www.pawprintonline.com/central-glider-101.html
http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/sugargliders/a/sgfeeding.htm
http://www.skinhorse.net/gliders/diet.html

None of these sites list what lizards they eat, but they are usually described as "small". I also found a number of sites that say sugar gliders are eaten by lizards, lol.

Would it be possible that raising lizard eggs would be healthier and less risky than feeding live lizards?

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#41900 - 04/02/05 05:30 PM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm with Mikey. I have been thinking about getting a few lizards (geckos and chams) and internal parasites are found in so many pet/feeder lizards. I would be very very wary of feeding them this.

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#41901 - 04/02/05 06:50 PM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 5916
Loc: Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
Well my guys have had their fair share of lizzards! In Fl they are all over the place. My kids (human) bring them in all the time. Well Stitch got one and that was the end of all lizzards being safe around my place. The boys hunt them for the fur butts and the fur butts love them.
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#41902 - 04/02/05 07:20 PM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


wow - sounds like anoles are ok for gliders... out of curiosity, how long have your gliders been getting lizards, Cyndie?

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#41903 - 04/02/05 07:59 PM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
suggie_lovies Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 280
Loc: deer park new york
the poor lizards!
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#41904 - 04/02/05 08:25 PM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Xglider Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 11157
Loc: Tampa, FL
Well I have to say living in FL I am with cyndiekb … however I have never intentionally offered mine lizards there has been the occasion that they have gotten one on their own “hunting instinct taken over” …

As with everything there is risk … if I had a more ‘safe’ source I would consider offering lizards if I know it was beneficial and like I said ‘safe’ ……..

I don’t want to start a moral argument here but I could offer lizards …. I could not do pinkies…

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />

I guess I have some self searching to do <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />…lol
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Link -> ~~ XtremeGlider ~~ Home of the original Re~set Toys! ~~ <br>
Oct 2012 update.. miss my gliders and my
glider family and think of my friends often!!!

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#41905 - 04/02/05 08:29 PM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
The likelyhood of the 'feeder' lizards having salmonella could be pretty high actually. Lizards can get salmonella extremely easily and even if they didn't have it when they hatched, because they are probably kept in such close quarters it is very likely that they all have it now. If they have come into contact with any other lizard, cages next to each other, owner handling different types of lizards without washing thoroughly, etc., it could be very likely that they have contracted salmonella and you will never know the difference. More than 90% of reptiles are carriers in the pet trade and I personally wouldn't put my faith in the breeders or the pet stores.
Just my 2 cents.

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#41906 - 04/02/05 11:33 PM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
The following links state that lizards are a natural food source for sugar gliders:

http://www.pawprintonline.com/central-glider-101.html
http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/sugargliders/a/sgfeeding.htm
http://www.skinhorse.net/gliders/diet.html<br />
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
I'm not trying to be a pain in the rear, but these sources aren't very solid.
There has to be some sort of book or research project, some kind of direct observation that substantiates that gliders eat lizards. If people are so frequently under the belief that gliders eat lizards, then something has to be out there that gave them the idea other than other personal websites.

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#41907 - 04/03/05 09:04 AM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
Agree with you Big Ern!

Have to check - but I believe it is only when they are desperate


Edited by Pockets (04/03/05 09:06 AM)
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#41908 - 04/04/05 01:18 AM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would not feed my gliders any pet store or wild caught lizards. Many of the pet store "feeder lizards" and a lot of the other reptiles for that matter are wild caught. Wild caught reptiles come into the trade with a lot of nasty internal parasites, which may be transferable to our gliders.

The only way I would feed a lizard to a glider is if it was a captive born hatchling.

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#41909 - 04/04/05 02:34 AM Re: Lizards as a protein source [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
The likelyhood of the 'feeder' lizards having salmonella could be pretty high actually. Lizards can get salmonella extremely easily and even if they didn't have it when they hatched, because they are probably kept in such close quarters it is very likely that they all have it now. If they have come into contact with any other lizard, cages next to each other, owner handling different types of lizards without washing thoroughly, etc., it could be very likely that they have contracted salmonella and you will never know the difference. More than 90% of reptiles are carriers in the pet trade and I personally wouldn't put my faith in the breeders or the pet stores.
Just my 2 cents.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Woah, over 90%?! Really?! I don't know about that figure... perhaps Canadian reptiles may be much cleaner than American ones... lol <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" /> I can't count the number of times I have stuck reptile heads into my mouth or kissed them for various odd reasons... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Also, I can't seem to find where I read that Anoles were among the least frequent carriers of salmonella among reptiles (which as a group are considered alleged Salmonella carriers in general, as are all domestic animals).

Once upon a time I was an irresponsible teen working at the pet store and I used to eat my lunch in the back room after handling the reptiles and after cage maintenance, etc and the only animals I ever contracted Salmonella from in my several years of working there (or any other infectious bacteria) were turtles, frogs (both tropical and North American native), and iguanas, both imported and/or wild caught or captive bred, and never from handling anoles, or any of the other small reptiles.

Infact, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> the worst case of salmonella poisoning I had occurred from eating lunch after handling red-eared sliders. From fecal samples that I was forced to take, the doctors learned I had contracted three different bacteria that was making me live atop the toilette for nearly a month (i.e. salmonella, and two strands of campilobacter). I was contacted by the Ministry of Health for briefing and for their records, and it certainly was NOT a delight!

Anyway, as has been mentioned a few times on here already, just beware of microorgnisms that can exist in the lizards (despite whether or not they may be considered high-risk salmonella hosts or not) that can easily transfer to the gliders. Though I'm not sure about the 90% number with regards to salmonella, I have had various discussions on the matter with 3 vets in the past, and it seems the general consensus is that indeed over 90% or so of reptiles, even captive bred specimens, are infected with some sort of parasite, even non-threatening parasite (that are capable of causing what is called a "superinfection" if internal conditions are favourable) and that show evidence in the reptiles' fecal samples as polyps (i.e. spores or eggs). It's a risk that I suppose each person has to evaluate whether or not it's really that much of a danger... again, if you are able to have access to the medication, a panacur solution (or other solution like liquid fenbendazole) administered orally (check and verify exact doses with a vet) works wonders at exterminating such parasites!

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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