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#425506 - 11/29/07 07:08 PM Pouch Aggression
Alchemy
Unregistered


I'm not sure whether this should go in behavior or in bonding, so I'm posting it here and hopefully the mods will forgive me if it's posted in the wrong place.

I have a little girl that I bought about three weeks ago. The first day I had her she seemed a little nervous but she didn't show any aggression problems. I tried hand feeding her a few treats that night and talked to her for awhile to get her used to my voice.

Well things didn't get better, they got worse. She is almost impossible to get out of her pouch. She'll crab and lunge and crab some more. If I dare stick my hand anywhere within lunging reach she'll take a chunk out of it. Not just a nip, we're talking about drawing blood and ripping open skin!

I tried offering her treats and she'll lunge out ripping off chunks with her teeth and dropping the pieces on the ground, not at all interested in being friends.

I really want to bond with her, so I started turning the pouch inside out and forcing her out of it. Once she's out she suddenly loses her aggression but she still acts really skittish. I can hold her with my bare hands however and not worry about needing stitches.

So I started taking her out every morning for the past week and putting her in my bra to sleep during the day. The first few days she crabbed up a storm! The last few days she's been so quiet I even dared to take her to a movie with me, and she slept quietly through the whole thing!!

But when I try to take her out of my bra she's just as vicious as if I were trying to take her out of her pouch, even though she's been next to my skin all day, she will violently attack my hands! I'm miserable! I have to strip out of my shirt and dump her out of my bra to keep from getting savaged! It's horrible!!

I don't know what to do to help her trust me, does anyone have any advice? I've never dealt with anything like this before. frown

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#425520 - 11/29/07 07:29 PM Re: Pouch Aggression [Re: ]
hollysmom
Unregistered


HEY!!!! you stole my glider hahahaha I dont have answers for you but she sounds just like my----cough-------cough--angel lol

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#425578 - 11/29/07 08:57 PM Re: Pouch Aggression [Re: ]
Alchemy
Unregistered


It's so hard isn't it?! frown

I feel like she really resents me, and it kind of hurts my feeings, even though I sort of know it's nothing personal as much as it's just her being afraid. I just want to find a way to help her feel safe, and to show her that I'm never going to hurt her, but that I'll protect and love her and give her lots of yummy treats if she'll just let me. frown

It's harder because my other gliders never had this kind of problem. I've had various issues pop up but they always seem to resolve themselves with time and patience. This little girl seems to be really be a challenge though. I want to cry every time she rips into one of my fingers. Not because of the pain in my finger, but because of the pain in my heart.


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#425580 - 11/29/07 09:15 PM Re: Pouch Aggression [Re: ]
TracieB Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 4338
Loc: Lenexa, KS
I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time. hug2 Some gliders just take longer to bond than others and it could be that this little girl is one of those cases. None of my kids like to be disturbed when they're sleeping, but especially not when they are in my bra. I get lots of crabbing from them and maybe a nip now and then but nothing as harsh as what you're describing.

Try and be patient and give her time to trust you. You're right that it's nothing personal, but I know sometimes it's hard to not feel that way. I hope things start improving quickly for the two of you.
_________________________
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1 wonderful husband - Chris
1 goofy Yorkie - Dexter
2 naughty kitties - Chloe & Alek

Waiting at the Rainbow Bridge:
1 spoiled Yorkie, Myles - April 5, 1993-June 5, 2007
1 sweet :wfb: Xavier - August 5, 2007-May 20, 2010
2 sweet :grey: :grey: Nara & Alkina - February, 2006-November, 2011





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#425746 - 11/30/07 03:34 AM Re: Pouch Aggression [Re: TracieB]
gliderlover1 Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 1173
Loc: WI USA
hug2
I completely understand. I have a little one that can be SO crabby. dunno I know that you know she is just scared.. and you have to give her lots of patience.. but that's easier said then done when you just want to love on a little one.. right..
Ok, I have a couple ideas. When you come to get her out try giving her a treat or two first. Then when you want her to come out of your bra put her pouch right next to her. Usually the sent of there pouch will be of enough interest that they will go into it on there own. So you don't have to strip..lol
Are you doing tent time with her? That is always good to get them to open up and trust you. Maybe you could do tent time before taking her out of your bra. Just sit and read or watch tv... and wait for her to come out on her own. It's very rewarding when they come out on there own in a good mood. cool

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#426107 - 11/30/07 06:23 PM Re: Pouch Aggression [Re: ]
Alchemy
Unregistered


I've tried giving treats to coax her, but she just lunges out and rips chunks out of them and then drops them on the cage floor without eating them. I have to be careful because if she misses the treat she rips into my fingers holding the treat. frown

Well, I tried the pouch trick, and the minute I opened my shirt to place the pouch near her she started crabbing and lunging and acting like a little demon suggie, but I turned it upside down and kind of hooded it over her head and she finally went into it.

I've tried tent time but she's so afraid of me she races to the top of the tent and "freezes" and won't move for the entire hour. To make matters worse she sits there and trembles so badly I'm afraid she might have a heart attack or something. I don't know why she's so freaked out. I've had gliders that took a while to calm down, but I've never had one that acted as if she'd never even seen a human before! Usually if I turn the lights on dim and put some mealies on a plate in the tent nervous gliders will still get interested enough to come down to prowl and catch their buggers, but this little girl completely ignores the mealies. frown

When tent time is over, it's even a bigger nightmare. I try to lift the pouch up let her crawl in but she acts like I'm a monster and starts [censored] out, racing all around the tent and crashing off the walls. I can't even get the pouch close enough for her to smell it and realize that it's hers. I have to get a throw blanket and gently try to blanket her and than slide the pouch under the blanket to where she's trapped and guide her into it. frown

I'm at a complete loss with her. I'm wondering if the trauma of being captured with a blanket totally voids whatever benefit she gets from me sitting with her in the tent. The only way I seem to be able to get close to her is when I put her in my bra, which I think only works because she just thinks it's an oddly scented pouch and not really a part of me. frown

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#426728 - 12/01/07 08:10 PM Re: Pouch Aggression [Re: ]
Sugr
Unregistered


I haven't even gotten around to introducing myself to the forum or anything yet, but this problem caught my eye. You must be so frustrated!

My idea is to try to help your suggie associate your hands with the safety of the pouch. If it were me, I'd try to slide your hand into the pouch prior to putting your suggie in there. If she'll still go in, I'd try to keep your hand in there (just along the side, or even under if she'll let you) for as long as you have time for. If she'll still treat it as just the pouch, over time, I'd think she's got to make progress. I think this would work with your bra, too (just sliding your hand under the middle part and then seeing if she'll go in). So she'd be lying between your hand (rather than your torso) and the bra material.

This isn't anything I've ever tried, I'm just trying to give ideas. Good luck, keep us posted! (If this backfires and she goes in, only to realize she's been invaded and start gnawing away, I'm sorry)

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#430735 - 12/09/07 12:45 PM Re: Pouch Aggression [Re: ]
Alchemy
Unregistered


I've been working really hard on socializing her during her out of cage time. I decided to pick something smaller than the tent though because I don't want to stress her out when it comes to catching her again. So I've been putting her in a reptarium and than putting treats and toys in there. When I put the rept on it's side I can unzip it just enough to put my hand in and have the option to pull it out of she just gets too scared. It's so hard to see her upset, I want so bad to have her trust me!

This morning she was up late (or I was up early, lol) and she was barking like crazy. I know she's lonely because she's still in quarrantine so I decided to try to squeeze a little more bonding time in before she went to sleep for the day. She immediately scrambled for her pouch when I opened her cage (*cry*) but I took it out anyway and tried to play with her a little in the rept. She did surprisingly well this morning! Once she was out of her pouch she even let me pet her a little before she scrambled away. Maybe she was sleepy?

I got really daring and decided to take some pictures of her and she didn't even seem that upset about the camera!! Maybe she's a "morning" glider?? I'm going to have to try getting up early again tomorrow and see if she's awake.

Here's a picture of her. Isn't that the most precious face you've ever seen! I want so badly for her to stop being afraid, I hope tomorrow is just as great as today was! I can't believe she actually let me pet her!!

Cute, crabby Chloe

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#430738 - 12/09/07 12:56 PM Re: Pouch Aggression [Re: ]
Alchemy
Unregistered


Cute cute cute! I made her picture my new avatar!! She's so adorable!

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#430741 - 12/09/07 01:03 PM Re: Pouch Aggression [Re: ]
JrGliders
Unregistered


That just has to be on the Picture of the Week contest! She is soooooo pretty!

Just stay consistent. She will come around soon. Bribes don't hurt either laugh (licky treats, mealworms, etc - by hand)

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#430744 - 12/09/07 01:09 PM Re: Pouch Aggression [Re: ]
Alchemy
Unregistered


Hehe, isn't she the most precious angel face?! I love her to pieces! I just want to kiss that nose! *sigh* She'd probably rip my lips off if I even tried though. *cry*

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#430750 - 12/09/07 01:16 PM Re: Pouch Aggression [Re: ]
Zucker
Unregistered


My guy's so pouch protective also. When he's in his pouch he's Mr. Crabsalot, when he's out he's such a little sweetie boy. Though I've been working with him and now he lets me pet him inside of his pouch. =)

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#430798 - 12/09/07 02:27 PM Re: Pouch Aggression [Re: ]
mommawannabe Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2443
Loc: Roanoke, Virginia
Oh my gosh she is absolutely precious!!!

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#430803 - 12/09/07 02:33 PM Re: Pouch Aggression [Re: mommawannabe]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
Have you tried a pouch protector pouch? I'm sorry, I didn't have time to read through all of the posts, so if you have and I missed it, my apologies.

If you haven't tried one, you should. I have had 3 pouch protective gliders and all 3 have made very quick progress with the pouch protector pouch. (get them at thepamperedglider.com)
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#430816 - 12/09/07 02:48 PM Re: Pouch Aggression [Re: ]
JrGliders
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Hehe, isn't she the most precious angel face?! I love her to pieces! I just want to kiss that nose! *sigh* She'd probably rip my lips off if I even tried though. *cry*


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh geez, that was so funny! Kittie and Katie, the White Faced girls that were on the classifieds for so long, lick my lips and give me kisses. The other day Katie was licking my lips and then nibbled one. I just was thinking, man that could be brutally painful if she ever got mad and really BIT smile

When you feed her at night, just dip your finger in her food and let her lick it off. They tend not to bite their normal food as much as a new flavor. They know the flavor, and know they get nothing more out with a bite.

Keep us posted.

And yes, Oh dear, she is beautiful!!!! I would love to be able to vote for that pic wink Hint hint hint...

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#433429 - 12/13/07 12:16 PM Re: Pouch Aggression [Re: ]
Alchemy
Unregistered


I've seen the pouch protecters in the past but I wasn't able to remember where I'd seen them, lol. I'm putting in order in for one now to see if it will help. I'm kind of worried about her attacking my hand when I go to open it, but maybe I can be sleuth about it and save my fingers! crazy

I've been waking up early in the mornings now trying to catch her awake and have found her out and about again only twice, but I took her out and tried to play with her a little each time. She didn't do as well as the first time, but I think there might be a little improvement? Maybe I'm just seeing it because I want to though. *sigh*

Hehe, JrGliders I would lose a finger if I tried to give her a licky treat, she is vicious, lol. I've tried offering her larger treats like mealies, waxworms, yoggies and red grapes but she will lunge out and rip chunks out and just drop the chunks to the cage floor so she can rip another chunk out without having to slow down to eat. If I tried a licky treat she'd do that to my finger! Ouch! blush

She's a monster, but she's so cute I just love her anyways. My demon angel, lol.

I put a picture in the weekly poll of her. It's the first time I've ever entered it so I didn't know how to do the little text part or anything, lol. Oh well. Pictures say a thousand words right? When I look at her cute little face it's hard to believe what a cranky little angle she actually is! shakehead

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#434627 - 12/15/07 10:55 AM Re: Pouch Aggression [Re: ]
theoneandonly
Unregistered


not to be rude or anything, but is this how all suggies are when you get them or is this just a really bad case?!?

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#434683 - 12/15/07 02:00 PM Re: Pouch Aggression [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Some rescues can be very terrified, making them seem really mean. It can take a while for them to feel safe and to learn to trust but ALL gliders can learn that trust.

Even joeys from GOOD breeders can become frightened and "mean". It isn't that they are hateful little things, they are just scaird.

Alchemy, try offering her the licky treat on the handle end of a wooden spoon. When she bites it, the wood won't hurt her teeth or your finger and she will only get a mouth of good stuff. Once she learns that it isn't a threat, she will stop biting the spoon and you can work on getting her to trust your finger. Start with your hand a safe (to both her and you) distance back from the treat and slowly (over several days) work your hand closer to the treat. Offer her these licky treats every hour or two during the day. Wake her up for it. You will be very surprised at the results.
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