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#42708 - 04/08/05 12:22 AM Buttercream question

Ok I have never really thought butter cream was that big of a differnce in grays mostly because I can't tell on my computer the differances in pictures.

I have this pair of gliders Bitty and Tade. I know Bittys history, her mom and dad, grandparents and uncle. Tade I got from some one who didn't want him any more because they claimed "he was the devil!" (he is actually one of my sweetest gliders and has never crabbed at me in the 2 years I have had him!) Anyway they told me they got him from Pricilla but they couldn't remember for sure. Anyway they have had 2 sets of babies now and both times they babies have had a creamy yellow head, not like my other joeys. So I am wondering

can it be possible that Tade came from one of Pricillas buttercreams? And if so can a het for buttercream produce buttercream when paired with a normal? Like with wfb hets, it isn't likely that you will get a wfb baby if you pair the wfb het with a normal

attached is my little girl that has the buttery face and the next picture will be the 2 boys they had first.

372312-bittysgirl4.jpg (62 downloads)

#42709 - 04/08/05 12:24 AM Re: Buttercream question [Re: RSXTC]

and here are the twin boys they had first

372318-T&Btwinboys.jpg (55 downloads)

#42710 - 04/08/05 12:37 AM Re: Buttercream question [Re: RSXTC]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I'm not sure on the right answer but my twins Dayla and KoKo are both buttercreams and they came from grey parents. However, Dexter was a rescue so I don't know of his lineage. I always though of them as just different shades of grey but have been told they are buttercreams.
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance

The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

#42711 - 04/08/05 09:54 AM Re: Buttercream question [Re: ]

Im sorry for any big terminolgy I might use. When speaking about genetics, het is short for heterozygous, which is a term dating back to Mendel. The situation that het is refering to would suggest that butter cream is a recessive trait. In other words, if you had a het, you couldnt tell a difference between him and the wildtype (from now on abbreviated wt). Furthermore, you could not get a buttercream from a het+wt mating, unless the suspected wt was himself a het (remember, you cant tell a difference), and even then the ratio of babies would be 3:1 wt to buttercream. That is simply not the way things work out with gliders and the butter cream color. Some parents are buttercream and give birth to gray joeys. Some parents are VERY extreme buttercreams (like mine, their whole body is a different color) and then give birth a joey that looks like the one on the pic you just submitted. Then, as dancing said somebody can have gray parents and all offspring can be buttercream. Therefore, butter creams follow one of the following modes of inheritance:
1.) Polygenic - more than one gene, and you need the right combination of "dominant" and "recessive" to get them to look the way u want (phenotype)
2.) Epistasis- same as polygenic, but in this case, if one gene is dominant and the others are recessive the dominant one blocks the recessive ones, or vice versa.
3.)Incomplete dominance-thats where a het has a significantly different phenotype than either of the homozygous, the grays or true butter creams.

These are just some of the possibilities, and I could probably tell you exactly what they were if I had a large family tree from a breeder. More likely than not, what we are looking at is a mix. I hope this helped some.

#42712 - 04/08/05 10:08 AM Re: Buttercream question [Re: ]

sil, two grays can produce buttercream. Often they will exhibit some traits of the variation themselves as well...

#42713 - 04/08/05 10:11 AM Re: Buttercream question [Re: ]

Yes!!! Honestly, Misiababy86, that deserves a standing ovation!!!

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/party.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/party.gif" alt="" />

I can't stress enough how much what you said right there is so right!

Anyway, my new buttercream female came from a cinnamon and a wild-caught (hence wild genetic bloodline) standard grey.

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

#42714 - 04/08/05 10:56 AM Re: Buttercream question [Re: ]

Thanks Mikey, I seem to be making a friend on this board with you. I would have to say that you deserved a standing ovation on MANY of your posts that I have read to date.

#42715 - 04/08/05 11:05 AM Re: Buttercream question [Re: ]

Oh forgot to add, there is also the possibility of reduced penetrance. that means that even if they do have the genetic predisposition to be buttercreams, because of their environment, they may not show it. SOOOOOOOO, there is another possible complication.

#42716 - 04/08/05 12:40 PM Re: Buttercream question [Re: ]

I know all about the other colors of gliders and how we think their genes work, I just never paid attetion to the buttercream. I am almost 100% sure that these joeys are not getting the buttercream color from Bitty, only becuase I have her uncle, my sister has her parents and younger brother, and a close friend of ours has her grandparents and none of them have ever had a buttercream joey. But she possible does have the right genes when mixed with Tades. I am no scientist by any means or completely understand how genes all work, I am very interested in them and can grasp a little bit. It all fasinates me. attached is a picture of Tade

Thank you all for your help.

372536-Tade.jpg (24 downloads)

#42717 - 04/08/05 02:42 PM Re: Buttercream question [Re: ]

My thoughts don't run too deep on the genetics behind the buttercream coloring, lol.

I have a buttercream female, Maisy who with her light standard mate Jupiter produce buttercreams that are more intensely colored than themselves.

Their children Tom and Monty who I have kept, have not produced anything as intense as themselves.

Tom is paired with a very light cream buttercream, Carmela, who has a buttercream lineage from the petglider, and Monty is with a standard, Pearl.

Tom and Carm have made some very pretty light buttercreams(I still have Zsa Zsa who is in my gallery), but Monty and Pearls first joeys are very standard in coloration.

In all three of these breedings involving buttercream, it seems to me that the offspring exhibit their mother's coloration more often than their father's which makes me wonder? I plan on keeping the next female from Maisy and Jupiter and seeing what happens.


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