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#429262 - 12/06/07 08:49 PM Maybe I wasn't ready.....
SandSmammas
Unregistered


Ok, so for everyone who was waiting for my vet visit update...here it is. Spice is severly dehydrated. She had to have an injection in her skin to help her. Sugar is not fully hydrated, but still better. She didn't need a shot. I was told to feed them both Peadalyte tonight in a syringe. Once again, I wasn't told how much or how often. I have to get a stool sample from both of them to take to the vet tomorrow. Because they need to know whos is whos, I have to seperate them if I can't physically see who does what. If I can't get them seperated and get a sample from both of them, I have to take them to the vet tomorrow and drop them off. I am devastated! I feel like I failed! cryI switched them to the Suncoast diet a week ago. The vet I saw today tottally disapproved of it. She is leaning towards the Leadbeaters diet but doesn't want me to switch as of yet because she is afraid it will upset them and cause more damage. I have never felt so confused. What is ok, what isn't? All I keep thinking is maybe I shouldn't have gotten them. All I feel is that I am causing them hurt. Maybe someone could have done a better job then me. All I want to do is hug and cuddle with them right now. I put them back into the cage so that they could get some sleep. They had a rough evening.

Ok, so here it goes. I know I am going to get so many different answers/opinions but I will just have to figure out what is best.
1. What is the proper way to hydrate my gliders?
2. Is Leadbeaters the best diet? Isn't is BML? Do most people use this? Isn't freezing bad for nutrients?
3. My vet told me that fruits and veggeis should only make up 5% of their total diet. Is this really true? Did I feed them too many fruits and veggies? I only did an 8th of an apple portion for 2 gliders a night.
4. She also told me that mealies and crickets aren't good sources of protein. What am I supposed to do now?!?
5. She told me to stay off the internet, it will just confuse me. (I wanted to tell her that everything I learned was off of the internet and that is is what has gotten me by thus far so could just hush!)

Thanks in advance for everyone who helps in answering the above questions. I can't ask for a more supportative group of "Glider Friends" All of the experience here combined means something!

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#429273 - 12/06/07 09:06 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: ]
cinnamonstix Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 3420
Loc: Twin Cities, MN
Who is your vet? Sound like they are not fully aware of all the diets that are approved and how exatly a glider should be eating. Can you get your babies eating watermelon? MIne love it and it is super juicy. Juicy stuff is good. Yu can offer diluted baby juice...dilute with pedialyte in your case...

Crickets are not highly reccomended due to aflotoxin risk...mealies are used by most glider owners and are very good protein.

Leadbeaters is BML...I do not personally use it...but many people love it...several others do not...all in opinion and their gliders taste.

Keep feeding your babies what you are feeding...you are fine...Suncoast is not bad..or it would not be approved...maybe invest time in looking for a new vet...it is good she is concerned...but seems like she is lacking a little knowledge at the same time.
_________________________
~GWEN~
Crazy BF Dru
Tortoise: Vork
Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes
Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Icarus & Ivy; Howie & Gracie; Rei & Syfka; Rafiki & Rajah, Opal, Lily & Link, Tael, Tatl & Navi

www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com

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#429274 - 12/06/07 09:07 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: ]
GliderLove Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 4801
Loc: SE Minnesota..
First, you need one of these hug2
You are here trying to do the very best for your gliders and I commend you. I think your doing a great job.

Pedialyite is a good way to hydrate your gliders, as well as juicy fruits like grapes and melons, and applesauce.

If they are showing symptoms of dehydration stick with Pedialite though. I always diluted it 50/50 though.

For diet, Leadbeaters is not the best diet but is a good one, as well as the Suncoast and many others. Diffrent people will say their opinion on what's best, of course I like my diet, but I won't say it's the best either.

My gliders diet consists of 33% protein 33% veggies and 33% fruit. My gliders have been fed this for 10+ years will only good health. In the wild gliders will eat 50% protein and 50% vegitation/fruits

I really think she needs to research more her self. Maybe reccomend her here! lol

Bugs add to protein but should be treats and not the only source of protein, so if using them alone as the only source of protein then no I would say it's not a good source of protein.

In my opinion telling you to stay off the internet is just plain ignorant. Why would you not want some one who owns a pet research as much as possible? When you spend time researching then you be able to tell what's true and what's not true, thus leaving it harder for you to just believe every thing that some one may tell you (like her for instance). I'm not saying she is not qualified but I will tell you from experience I have changed vets before because I did not like their way of thinking or doing things.

With this being said, I'm sure you'll get other opinions, and this is purely my 2 cents. But I think your doing a great job so don't doubt your self so much! hug2
_________________________
Cindy
Mom to
Jae, Ashton, Briannah, Nevaeh & Addy

& all my fuzzies!
Breeder of Leu's, Mosaics, wfb, and standard grey's.
Owner of www.MySugarAddiction.com

:rtmo: :leu:


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#429277 - 12/06/07 09:08 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: ]
TammyH
Unregistered


I don't know what I would have done without this board!! I bought my gliders at a home show- asked a ton of questions and thought I covered it all and had all the answers. Then, I got home, read the internet and felt like a moron as I believed everything the breeder had told me and it was really all about sales and nothing to do with education and placement. diet has been a major issue and I am confused too b/c I cannot get any straight answers about the supplements I purchased and how to measure and use them in the BML. But I love my little guys and I'll do anything for them!!
My vet also told me Leadbeaters. BML is the modified version of Leadbeaters. Mine would not touch the original but they like the BML. I still have to do liquid calcium supplement per my vet. DO read the internet!! There are some VERY knowledagble people on this board with tons of experience!! The vet is great for the medical stuff, but they do not know the day to day life with suggies!!
Mealies are VERY important and most of them love them!!! They are high in fat, so you can't over indulge them.

good luck!!

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#429284 - 12/06/07 09:12 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: GliderLove]
cinnamonstix Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 3420
Loc: Twin Cities, MN
God Cindy...we sound so much alike here...lol...yes...I feed the same diet as Cindy...we use several sources of protein...being I am not familar with Suncoast I did not make any further suggestions on types...because I am not familar with the diet. Read it over and see what is reccomeded and allowed for sure! Make sure you offer more than one type besides bugs and staple.
_________________________
~GWEN~
Crazy BF Dru
Tortoise: Vork
Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes
Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Icarus & Ivy; Howie & Gracie; Rei & Syfka; Rafiki & Rajah, Opal, Lily & Link, Tael, Tatl & Navi

www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com

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#429297 - 12/06/07 09:21 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: cinnamonstix]
GliderLove Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 4801
Loc: SE Minnesota..
Suncoast reccomends 50% protein, it lists turkey, chicken baby food, hard boiled eggs, and mealies/crickets and baby cereal as sources of protein.

It really vares by what diet you use, I use way more sources of protein and a little less in their every day diet, I add more protein for pregnant and lactating mommies smile
_________________________
Cindy
Mom to
Jae, Ashton, Briannah, Nevaeh & Addy

& all my fuzzies!
Breeder of Leu's, Mosaics, wfb, and standard grey's.
Owner of www.MySugarAddiction.com

:rtmo: :leu:


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#429298 - 12/06/07 09:22 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: cinnamonstix]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
hug2 Please do not be so hard on yourself!!!! We all think and feel that your a WONDERFUL glider mommy...you are taking the time to research, ask questions, seek medical care for your babies, your concerned, and most of all you love them dearly...what more can they want. In the beginning things are confusing, and there is so much to learn and do that to have it all figuered out in a few months is next to impossible...we all are still learning everyday.
Just take one day at a time. Make sure that they are getting plenty of fluids, in addition to their food.
Other than that, just always keep a close watch on them for any unusual changes in behavior, pottying, eating, etc...
Ask questions, no question is a dumb question.
We are family here, and will be here for you no matter what OK? hug2

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#429305 - 12/06/07 09:28 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: cinnamonstix]
SandSmammas
Unregistered


Aww...thank you all! I knew my glider friends would make me feel better. And this is for you, Cindy hug2
I basically do the following: (for 2 gliders)
Day 1: 1 Tbs Zookeepers Secret (staple), cucumber,
Day 2: Zookeepers Secret, apple, mealies
Day 3: Zookeepers Secret, red peppers,
Day 4: Zookeepers Secret, grapes, peach or blueberry yogurt
Day 5: Zookeepers Secret, sweet potatos,
Day 6: Zookeepers Secret, kiwi, chicken w/ applesauce
Day 7: Zookeepers Secret, carrots,
Day 8: Zookeepers Secret, honeydew melon, hard boiled egg, a couple of cherrios, a little applesauce
Continues on rotating all 4 protein sources.
Does this sound about right?

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#429309 - 12/06/07 09:31 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: ]
SandSmammas
Unregistered


And one for you Lsardou too! hug2
You guys are all so great! I really hated when she told me to stay off the internet. She has no idea how much I have learned from Glider Central. I learned how to make toys, how to make my girls bra babies, where to get mealies, where to get pouches....EVERYTHING!

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#429343 - 12/06/07 09:42 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: ]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
On the pedialyte, as much as you can get in them. There is no set amount. Watermelon is awesome for hydration, for some reason they love it. Right now, with them dehydrated, pedialyte is the best, but anything is better than nothing. So, break out the watermelon, green grapes, NO CITRUS, it loosens their stools up and you don't want them loosing more liquid.
Oh, and for today, and maybe even tomorrow, don't spaz about them eating "the right things". Hydration first, they have to live, then worry about nutrition.
hug2 hug2 hug2


Edited by USMom (12/06/07 09:44 PM)
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#429358 - 12/06/07 10:16 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: USMom]
LindsayAnnG
Unregistered


if your gliders have a favorite fruit and you can't seem to get the pedialyte in them (some gliders are VERY difficult to force feed) Then you can take a piece of fruit, like watermelon, and soak it in pedialyte.. ANY of their favorite fruit would be just fine. They sell completely flavorless pedialyte (i use it for my cats) and it;s great to soak fruit in!

GOOD LUCK and you are doing a GREAT job.. The fact that you CARE THIS MUCH is HUGE!

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#429361 - 12/06/07 10:23 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: USMom]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
What exactly are the babies eating now? Are they able to eat the zookeepers pellets?

If I remember correctly... in another post you wrote they were not eating any protein. Were you refering to the pellets, chicken or bugs or eggs or all of the above?

Personally, I would make up a batch of the BML and force feed the little ones. Without anything in their digestive tract... how are you going to collect fecals from them?

Whatever you feed... for now do not feed Ensure since the babies are having a problem being dehydrated as it will cause more problems in their tiny digestive tracts.

If both babies have runny stools (or been exposed to whatever is ailing them since they are together) do not know why the vet said to seperate them. Seperating will only cause more stress in my openion.

I would give lots of fluids every two hours and feed them the BML mix with a syringe every four to six hours.

As for seperate stools... just combine them together. vet can then test and treat both gliders together with the same med.

_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#429362 - 12/06/07 10:24 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: ]
GliderLove Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 4801
Loc: SE Minnesota..
Great idea Lindsay!
_________________________
Cindy
Mom to
Jae, Ashton, Briannah, Nevaeh & Addy

& all my fuzzies!
Breeder of Leu's, Mosaics, wfb, and standard grey's.
Owner of www.MySugarAddiction.com

:rtmo: :leu:


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#429363 - 12/06/07 10:28 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: USMom]
SandSmammas
Unregistered


Should I give them any protein tonight? I blended up some chicken breast with water and applesauce. I was going to give them that, watermelon/green grapes, and petalyte. What does everyone think? Is this ok, or should I add/elimanate anything?

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#429365 - 12/06/07 10:30 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: ]
SandSmammas
Unregistered


What is the correct recipe for BML? I read where they have to have high protein baby cereal. What exactly is that?

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#429388 - 12/06/07 11:05 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: ]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
Here is a copy of the BML diet...Hope this helps thumb

Bourbon's
Modified Leadbeaters (BML)
This diet plan is designed to include: the BML mix, below, fruits, veggies each night, insects in the morning, if you choose not to use the insects, please provide tree branches in their cage. Please read EVERYTHING on this page
DO NOT feed this diet plan with another diet plan.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Basic BML Mixture
to be used with the entire BML plan as explained below

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Any changes in this recipe, other than noted, the gliders may not like it. The majority of my email that people have sent to me, stating their gliders would not eat this, we have found, has been caused by modifications, and items being omitted added or substituted. This is a complete plan and does not need additions. If they still won't eat it, you can try the BML (original mixing method). This new method makes it sweeter. If some don't like it this way, they usually like it the other.. for those whose gliders were eating the bml using the previous mixing method of turning the blender on and off you can find it here.
One thing we have prided ourselves in , is that as more information emerges we will make changes. IF there is ANY chance of anything being an issue with the diet, we will make changes accordingly.
[b]With that being said the changes made to the BML page, is not really a change in the basic BML diet plan. we have taken areas where we have allowed flexability and really broken it down to the basic of the basics. This is what was tested, and this is what has been found to be nutritionally balanced.[b/] More and more we are seeing modifications and additions that could be potentially harmful to your glider. Everyone wants what is best for their glider, they strive and work hard to find a diet that is balanced. The BML diet Plan which includes the fruits , veggies and optional insects, is balanced for as much as we know, for each item substituted, modified, and added it takes a balanced diet that was designed to be healthy and makes it unbalanced, thus opening the door for potential problems.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1/2 cup Honey, do not use honeycomb, raw or unfiltered honey, Most store bought Honey is the one to use unless it uses one of the three words above

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 4oz bottle PREMIXED Gerber juice with yogurt (Mixed Fruit or Banana)

both have yogurt mixed in, the fluid is creamy colored. For those that can not find this, you may substitute 2 oz of plain yogurt and 2 oz of mixed fruit juice

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turn on blender, add the next group of ingredients.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1/4 cup Wheat Germ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Teaspoon of Rep-Cal HERPTIVITE vitamin suppliment ,
Blue label on a white plastic container, DO NOT SUBSTITUTE this suppliment.
(My petstore ordered it for me)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 teaspoons Rep-Cal Calcium Suppliment non-phosphorus with Vit. D3 in it.

Pink label on a white plastic container (my petstore ordered it for me)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 2 1/2 oz jar of Stage 1 or 2 Heinz, Gerber or Beechnut Chicken baby food

The chicken will say either Chicken with Chicken Gravy or Chicken with Chicken Broth either is acceptable

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Egg (boiled or scrambled)(I Hard Boil Mine)
the shell is no longer an option . We do not use it at all.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
for the next 2 ingredients alternate them, a little cereal with a little juice, a little cereal with a little juice, going back and forth till both ingredients are included

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1/4 cup of Apple Juice, just the good ole apple juice that you and I would drink, Not frozen, not baby juice, just regular bottle apple juice.
you may also substitute 1/8 of the applejuice for white grape juice
1/2 cup dry baby cereal.. Heinz or Gerber (Mixed or Oatmeal) **NOTE: (most gliders do not like the taste of the oatmeal)
(I use rice with fruit bits)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blend well for 5 minutes
turn off blender, then pour it into tupperware bowl, or ice cube trays and FREEZE,
1 cube in ice cube tray is approx. 2 tablespoons. (measure out your first couple of cubes, place 2 tablespoons in each cube (noting some ice cube trays are bigger than others)
It will freeze to the consistancy of ice cream.
This mix will feed 1 glider for approximately 1 month.
Do NOT mix the fruits and veggies in before freezing.
the veggies are corn , peas, carrots and greenbeans
the fruit is apples, grapes, watermellon, cantalope, melon, frozen pitted cherries and blueberries
Do NOT feed the seeds of apples or the pits of cherries. You can use fresh or frozen, but do NOT used canned.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The rule of thumb per glider is..
1 Tablespoon of the BML basic mix,
1 Tablespoon of fruits, (apples, grapes, watermellon, cantalope, melon, frozen pitted cherries and blueberries)
1 Tablespoon of veggies (corn, peas, carrots and green beans)
Insects (feed in the morning as dessert)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IMPORTANT NOTES ::

If they eat it all the first night add a little more each night till they leave only a little bit.

IF they DON'T eat it all, no need to worry. back off on every thing only half of the recommended amounts and only a few pieces of veggies increasing each day , till they leave only a little behind. If they are eating 3/4 of a tablespoon each then they are doing good. There are gliders that do eat more thus the reason for the tablespoon.


Young joeys up to 6 months oop, may not eat the full amount offered or they may not eat as many fruits and veggies, and eat more of the mix. This is NOT cause for concern, they are just not ready for it yet. You can introduce them by offering them as finger treats.

For nursing and lactating mothers. Stay with this plan, do not add or increase protein and calcium, They will eat more BML if needed, and less fruits and veggies. They also may want more insects, you can increase theirs by 1 or 2.


They get up and down all night foraging, feeding and playing.


They only eat the insides of the corn, peas, greenbeans, so closer inspection may reveal they are eating more than you think.

some very important things to keep in mind.


IF your gliders suddenly stops eating, it could be normal, if you have more than 1 cage, notice if all the cages slow down, if so there is probably a good explaination. I tell people to keep a log of their gliders eating habits, when they do slow down. check the moon phase, is there a lot of atmospheric activity. something stressful in the home, or changes made. I also ask people if they are famished when they go to the table each night? of course not, well then we shouldn't expect our gliders to be either. Are we over feeding them, giving them too many treats, feeding the mealies at night before they eat. Changing their foods around too much.Offering too much?? please ask yourself these questions first. Gliders do not tire of their food, the plan allows for daily variety.

If you don't remember anything, please remember that your gliders stomach is only as big as your thumbnail. it holds less than a tablespoon of foods and liquids.






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***Special Notes***
For Joeys that are under 5 weeks OOP, please use the JOEY BML. Ask the breeder how they age them, some large breeders age them upon emergence into the pouch. If that is how they age them, subtract 60 days from their age.

If your glider has never been introduced to insects, it may SEEM like they do not like it, that is NOT the case. Break a mealie in half, allow them to lick the guts, or squeeze it onto your finger and offer it as a licky treat. This can be started very young (mine start this at about 3-4 weeks oop, but only the insides.) If they are older (over 8 weeks OOP), you may try dipping the half in their favorite licky treat.

As for insects, Depending on what you feed, and what size. I feed 2-3 Large (jumbo) mealies per day (not superworms) small 5-7, Large or jumbo 2-3, superworms 1. Some of the most popular insects are . Mealworms, moths, june bugs. My gliders do not like to have their mealies in the BML mix. I offer 2 to 3 mealworms each morning. I may also offer them a few moths, june bugs or Man'o'wars. If it is a bug.. Look out... In the summer the fav is moths, june bugs and man'o wars or skeeter eaters.. whichever people call them they look like giant mesquitos.
Caution : DO NOT feed fireflys/lightening bugs. Do NOT feed roaches, or any insects found on the floor or on the ground, which could have come in contact with pesticides, either from your place, or someone elses. We no longer suggest or advocate the use of crickets due to the problems posed with aflatoxin.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are many ways to offer variety this is some of the ways I feed mine... please notice I am not changing the ingredients of the diet, but how it is offered.

After I spoon the BML mix into their bowl, I feed their veggies and fruits in various ways.
1.) Fold in a few frozen veggies.. corn, peas, carrots. etc. into the BML mix
2.) I will give them fruits and veggies during the day, for treats. reducing the amount I give them at night with their meal
3.) In a side bowl.
4.) If I "ICE" the BML mix with applesauce or another fruit, I will reduce the amounts of fruit offered. By Icing you take about 1/8 teaspoon of applesauce and spread it across the top of the BML mix, take the edge of a spoon and cut ridges into the BML mix.
Motts has snackpack flavored applesauce, try the different flavors to find out which ones your gliders like.

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#429390 - 12/06/07 11:06 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: ]
kthiessen Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/04/06
Posts: 4526
Loc: Columbia, Missouri
First of all here are some more hug2 You are doing fine.

Here is the link for BML.
_________________________
~ Kathy ~


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#429396 - 12/06/07 11:18 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: LSardou]
Bubbles8i8 Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 11/22/07
Posts: 879
Loc: Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
Gatorade would be a good choice also, if they like it better than pedialyte. The chicken applesauce mixture is better than nothing! They even make chicken apples baby food and other types of baby food that may be easier for them to get down. You could also soak the ZooKSecret in the pedialyte or gatorade to make it easier for them to eat (since it would be softer) and would get the liquids in them at the same time.

I would offer them many different choices so at least they would probably find one thing that they like out of the options.

It really says a lot that you are seeking help.

Good luck with everything!

<3
_________________________
Jenny tounge

Wife to Josh, Mom to Taylor heart

:glider: Coo & Chimera
:glider: Ruckus & Mayhem
:glider: Adonis & Persephone & Aphrodite
www.animalhobby.com

Taylor's Sailors
Cages, Toys, Wheels, Pouches, Treats

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#429515 - 12/07/07 02:50 AM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
The USDA banned High Protein Baby Cereal many many years ago.

To make the BML mix ....

1/2 cup of Apple Juice
1/2 cup of Honey
1 cooked egg
2 jars of Baby food Chicken with broth
1 4 oz. Bottle of baby juice with yogurt

1/4 cup of Wheat Germ
1/2 cup of Mixed or Oatmeal Baby Cereal
1 teaspoon of Herptivite (multi Vitamin)
2 teaspoons of Rep Cal (calcium supplement)

Mix all of the wet ingredients together well in a blender.

Add dry ingredients to mix into blender and blend well.

Pour into Ice Cube tray and freeze. Cover tightly with foil so it does not become freezer burned.

The mix will last two weeks for a pair of gliders. Each cube should equal 2 tablespoons of BML which is what one would feed a pair of gliders nightly.

Feed 2 tablespoons of fruit and 2 tablespoons of mixed veggies along with one ice cube of BML nightly.

With babies... usually they will not eat all of the fruit and veggies so you may have to adjust portions.

No need to thaw... as the ice cube mix will melt within five to ten minutes. Gliders will start licking it while still frozen.

All ingredients can be purchased at the grocery store except for the Multi Vitamin and Calcium. Those you can purchase at PetCO or PetSmart and can be found in the Reptile section.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#429535 - 12/07/07 05:20 AM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: Judie]
silverwolf Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1732
Loc: Utah
Right now for hydration pedylite is the best to use mine like the fruit flavor best. I had a problem with my female becomming dehydrated and did 4 days of vet sub-q fluids to get her back up. He suggested that I get a small bowl and get the dry gatorade powder and place the small bowl in with their food at night that along with a full water bottle I have not had a problem with hydrations since. I'm sure some will disagree with the gatorade nightly but it has worked wonders for my guys I have two cages of gliders right now and they both get gatorade nightly. The only time I have a problem with it is when they throw the dish off the shelf because I bought the wrong flavor or gatorade. Also just a suggestion why don't you print out like pracilla prices diet, the bml diet and a few others and let her actually look them over. She might be surprised at what she sees with these diets as I think they are all good. It just depends on what your babies like. I have tried several and my gliders only seem to like pracilla's diet so that is what they get. They are picky little boogers.


Edited by silverwolf (12/07/07 05:23 AM)

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#429552 - 12/07/07 08:07 AM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: ]
Laura_Leigh
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: SandSmammas

1. What is the proper way to hydrate my gliders?

Get the apple pedialyte, mine like that the best. get a syringe that holds a few CC's and just give them however much they will take from you.

Originally Posted By: SandSmammas
2. Is Leadbeaters the best diet? Isn't is BML? Do most people use this? Isn't freezing bad for nutrients?

One of the girls that I sold a couple of gliders had her vet tell her this same thing while she was on Pricilla's diet. They suggested she use the Original Leadbeaters diet, which we cannot duplicate in the US. I use the HPW and love the diet. My gliders didn't take to any of the variations of the BML, and they look awesome! The only bad thing is you have to order the Wombaroo HPS online.

Originally Posted By: SandSmammas
3. My vet told me that fruits and veggeis should only make up 5% of their total diet. Is this really true? Did I feed them too many fruits and veggies? I only did an 8th of an apple portion for 2 gliders a night.
No, this is not true. It should be closer to 30%. With most diets, you will offer 1 TBSP of whatever protein mix, 1 TBSP fruits, and 1 TBSP veggies... If you were following the diet, then you were doing it right.

Originally Posted By: SandSmammas
4. She also told me that mealies and crickets aren't good sources of protein. What am I supposed to do now?!?
I agree with the vet on not feeding crickets, but for different reasons, but mealies are a good source of protein, as well as an excellent bonding tool...

Originally Posted By: SandSmammas
5. She told me to stay off the internet, it will just confuse me. (I wanted to tell her that everything I learned was off of the internet and that is is what has gotten me by thus far so could just hush!)
My suggestion is that if she wants you to get off the internet, then order a copy of Peggy Brewer's book and take it in to her and tell her that maybe she needs to learn a few more basics about gliders... Maybe the internet would do HER some good. She apparently has not researched glider diets, or the accepted diets that we use.

Sorry if I repeated anything anyone else has said.

If you would like to look at some different diets, I have most of them on my diets page...


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#429602 - 12/07/07 09:57 AM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: ]
SandSmammas
Unregistered


Update----Update----Update
Ok, so I just dropped off the stool samples to the vet. They are going to do the tests and call me with the results. Last night went great! I got them out into the tent at around 11 pm. I came prepared with watermelon, green grapes and apple petalyte. Spice came out and ate like crazy. She drank around 2-3cc's of petalyte. After she ate, she went in between the sheets in the tent again. She just slept. She went #1 and #2 twice. The only thing that scared me was that when she peed, it really smelled like the apple petalyte. I was afraid that she was just passing it through and not absorbing any of it. Sugar came out and ate like crazy too. After eating she was her normal self, bouncing around like crazy and launching from my head mlove She kept trying to get Spice out to play and they just kept chirping at each other. It was so cute to see Sugar kissing Spice through the sheet. It took little old Sugar till 2 am to finally go poop. I was prepared to wait up all night to keep from having to take them into the vet this morning to be seperated. I was afraid of the stress it would cause them. After that, they were put back into their cage. I was planning on feeding them watermelon and petalyte every 2 hours last night but I never woke up blush (I ususally do anyways to check on them)I must have been extremely tired because I never woke up. When I got up this morning, they were bouncing around the cage like crazy! However, when I put my hand in the cage, they ran away from me like they were scared! frown I went to go get some more watermelon and petalyte. The took the watermelon from me but wouldn't sit in my hand and eat it like they normally do. They just snatched it from me and left. I was able to get another 3 cc's of petalyte in them this morning. When I left, they were crawling in to go to sleep. I AM SO GLAD I LISTENED TO ALL THE WONDERFUL PEOPLE ON HERE AND NOT MY vet! This is the first time I ever went against a vet in my life! She said no fruit but I think it worked! Thank you everyone! I am so happy that it is all going in the right direction. I can't wait to get home from work and see my girls! One more quick question. How long should I continue the petalyte? Should I mix it with their water? I am not sure what to do or for how long? Also, I don't want them to get bored with watermelon. Are there any veggies that are heavly water based? I usually rotate every other day, fruits and veggies. I am going to do protein tonight (chicken and applesauce) with whatever veggie I get recommended to me. Also, I ususally sprinkle their Vionite and Rep cal on their fruits and veggies every night. I didn't last night. Should I still hold off or should I continue. Also, my girls seem to love what I feed them on Suncoast so I think I am going to stay with it. I am afraid of going to BML right now. Maybe I will try it if they start not eating. I don't know how their little bodies will act with a switch right now. Also, my husband seems to think they aren't drinking from their water bottle. It is spring loaded so we hear it click all the time. However, does anyone have any tips on how to measure how much they are drinking versus how much they should be drinking? My breeder was very vague on how to tell. I am starting to think that they became dehydrated because they don't drink enough. We had a non spring loaded water bottle at first but it dripped all the time so we were never able to tell what they had drank versus what was wasted. Plus it made a mess! Thank you so much for all the help. I truly feel joy and happiness thanks to the real "glider experts"! Hugs to all! hug2

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#429616 - 12/07/07 10:13 AM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: ]
melek007 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/03/07
Posts: 3874
Loc: Eastern NC
hug2 I am so sorry you're going through this! hug2

I used the SunCoast diet before and my gliders did great on it. laugh When I spoke to my vet before, she wasn't familiar with the diet, but when I told her what it consisted of, she said it sounded good.

I noticed from one of your posts that you're not giving them protein every night? They should get it every night. I primarily gave mealworms, with yogurt on occasion to mix things up or when we were low on mealies.

I hope Sugar and Spice get well soon!
_________________________
~ I miss my Alev, Nese & Levent ~

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#429628 - 12/07/07 10:48 AM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: melek007]
SandSmammas
Unregistered


Ok, quick question melek007. It says that they only recommend protein everyday for nursing mothers. I have been doing every other day because they are just 10 weeks old and I am not breeding them. Should I be doing protein everyday?

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#429643 - 12/07/07 11:24 AM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: ]
SandSmammas
Unregistered


Update------Update------Update
Ok, just a call from the vet. Sugars sample was all clear. Spice, however, she saw a mild bacteria. I was able to get Spice's sample at 11:43 pm and Sugars at 1:00am. She said that it is possible that Spice's isn't as accurate because it sat out later. She wants to put Spice on an oral liquid antibiotic twice a day for 5 days. She does, however, want me to bring in another sample tomorrow morning so she can do another test with a "fresher" sample. She says that once I start the antibiotic that she won't be able to accuratly test again. I am going to try and get another sample tomorrow morning but if I can't I am just going to get the antibiotics and hope for the best!

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#429656 - 12/07/07 11:39 AM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: ]
Lindsey
Unregistered


hug2 Hugs to you and your babies!


Good luck! I'm sure that with a loving mommy like yourself, your little babes will be just fine hug2


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#429909 - 12/07/07 06:15 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: ]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: SandSmammas
Ok, quick question melek007. It says that they only recommend protein everyday for nursing mothers. I have been doing every other day because they are just 10 weeks old and I am not breeding them. Should I be doing protein everyday?


Yes, your gliders should be getting protein everyday. Whatever diet you are following will contain the required amounts of protein.

I'm happy to hear that things are going better for you and for them. Your doing great with asking questions and most importantly your taking all the efforts to do what's right for your babies.

Thank you for the update!!!!

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#429985 - 12/07/07 08:29 PM Re: Maybe I wasn't ready..... [Re: LSardou]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
You should keep them on the pedialyte for several days. Most fruit has a lot of water in it, so pretty much any that you choose will be fine.

Meds is a tough thing to do, so good luck! I'm so glad you caught this early smile

And thank you for letting us know how it is going.
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#431321 - 12/10/07 11:57 AM UPDATE---Dehydration issues
SandSmammas
Unregistered


First off, thanks for all of the advice! I couldn't have done it without all of you who helped me! I went to go and pick up Spice's medicine on Saturday. I came prepared with a list of what ZooKeepers Secret had in it (since my vet thought it was a joke of a diet) All she managed to do was still talk bad about it and insist on getting them on Manzuer pellets. I have come to the realization that I am all alone with vet issues. I have such a good vet for my dog's and cat's and I sure hoped that I would have the same relationship with my suggie's vet. tant
Anyways....things are back to normal with my girls. I never thought that I would be looking for poop before roflmao
Everything is back to solid and eating has continued. I do however have a few follow up questions (I know, everyone is probably thinking,"When don't you have questions!"
I need to start paying everyone on here that gives me advice since my vet (who I pay) won't answer my questions.
1. I have been hand feeding my gliders petalyte with a syringe. When should I stop this? I have been doing it since Thursday. Also, should I maybe mix petalyte with their water in the bottle? If so, how long should I continue this? Can I do it forever? I am so afraid that they will become dehydrated again.
2. When should I quit the watermelon? I have been downsizing their portions since Saturday. I put their normal veggies/fruits in every night and just hide little pieces of watermelon in with them. Should I continue this or should I just get back to normal?

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#431355 - 12/10/07 12:42 PM Re: UPDATE---Dehydration issues [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I'm glad to hear your little ones are improving. smile

Quote:
I need to start paying everyone on here that gives me advice since my vet (who I pay) won't answer my questions.


How about you consider you paid for services rendered and just forget about where the $ really went? You just got an answer here instead. hug2 I've had vets I couldn't discuss things like diet with before and I know it's frustrating. I use them for the things they're good for, and agree to disagree with them and not discuss certain things. Luckily, the one I have now (had to go through 4 others to find her though!) we agree on all but one issue I'm not currently needing, but I know I can discuss that with her and she won't get mad at me, lol.

Do not contaminate the water in their bottle with anything else in it. I also recommend an open dish somewhere in case the bottle ever malfunctions-they need a pure clean source at all times.

Can you leave pedialyte in a separate dish every day in there? Absolutely. Mine get at least one other drink daily (it's very dry here at 8,000 ft) in addition to their water. Just change it out for fresh daily. Liquilyte powder is nice because you can mix what you need daily and it won't go bad in 3 days-once open, pedialyte is good for 3 days then you have to throw it away-per manufacturer directions.

Since you've had dehydration, they will possibly be more prone to it in the future. Check them at least a few times a week once they're back to normal. If they seem a little dry, you can put some pedialyte down with a syringe then to make sure they don't go back to being where they were.

You can mix in watermelom as often as you like. Mine get honeydew and canteloupe daily, but I also offer watermelon often (they like it) in place of one or the other. Melons are both high in vitamin C and have a good calcium to phosphorus ratio, so can be a regular fruit.

Hope this helps.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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