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#441035 - 12/28/07 11:38 PM glider is not using his front hands
outnumbered421
Unregistered


Hello everyone,

We noticed that our glider was not using one of his hands yesterday. He was keeping it closed up. This morning when we woke up he was doing the same thing with the other hand. We took him to the vet this morning and really did not get any answers. Has this happened to anyone? Thanks for all the help!

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#441040 - 12/28/07 11:42 PM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: ]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
what sort of tests did the vet run? Is it a glider knowledgeable vet? How old is the glider? What diet is he on?
_________________________
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Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#441042 - 12/28/07 11:47 PM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: BeckiT]
outnumbered421
Unregistered


He is not quite a year old and is on the glider grub, fresh fruits and veggies and meal worms. The vet is very knowledeable with sugar gliders bugt explained that they can get many things from diet and many things we do not understand yet. He suggested cleaning out his diet and starting over in case there were some pestisides in something he has eaten. He sort of suggested a few tests but did not offer any answers. We did not have the tests done feeling that maybe we needed to bring him back home for a few days and see if we could find out something on our own and change his diet, maybe massage his feet and give him so tlc. It is like he has arthritis in his hands, he is keeping them closed and not opening them at all, it is so sad. He can not run in his wheel or jump around.

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#441050 - 12/28/07 11:55 PM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: ]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
It seems like he may be seizing a bit from a calcium or some kind of deficiency. That's just a wild guess, but if glider grub is the main staple, your baby is lacking in needed calcium and vitamins.

diet is one of the most controversial, yet most important considerations. Check out the diet page and Suz’s site: Feeding Your Joeys & Adult Gliders. Captive gliders have specialized dietary needs and need the proper blend of nutrients (with protein, fruits, veggies, vitamins, and calcium). For some of the diets, you should be able to find all of the ingredients in a grocery store and pet store. You will want to find one that will suit your lifestyle and your gliders' preferences. You'll want to follow whatever diet you choose, as outlined. Don't mix and match the various plans or ingredients or you'll throw off the overall calcium to phosphorus (Ca:P) ratios, as well as introduce other unhealthy imbalances.

Have you noticed if he's dragging his legs or anything?
_________________________
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#441058 - 12/29/07 12:14 AM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: KattyM]
outnumbered421
Unregistered


We feed the glider grub from suncoast gliders and a calcium suppliment on it. I also make the bml and feed it occassionally. We have 2 other gliders that are younger and it seperate cages and they are not having any problems. He is not having any problems with his hind legs only his front hands. I will research the diets again and see what I am doing wrong, I just hope it is not too late. I was just reading on suz website and it does not sound good. Thanks for your help! We are sad and unsure of what to do next.

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#441061 - 12/29/07 12:20 AM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: ]
glidergrl1513 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 5725
Loc: Upstate NY
Not all gliders are affected in the same way with diets. So it is quite possible that this is caused by the diet even though you are not seeing it with any of the others, although there could be another cause.

What kind of tests did the vet suggest? I'm sure someone else more knowledgeable on the subject will see this soon and will be able to help more and maybe give you some suggestions to take to your vet.

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#441087 - 12/29/07 01:09 AM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: glidergrl1513]
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 6573
Loc: Kilgore, Texas
Just wanted to offer a hug2 and support.................Hoping someone comes along soon to help!!!!!! hug2
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http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm

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#441139 - 12/29/07 08:28 AM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: Cora]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
A few things come to mind while reading your posts... First of all, of course, is the need to change diets. Feeding the glider grub from Suncoast is fine as long as you also completely follow the rest of the Suncoast Diet as outlined... and don't mix BML with it. Combining diets can be just as harmful as not completely following any given diet because it still throws off the vitamin and mineral balances, not to mention the protein/fruit/veggie balances. Either go strictly with the Back to Basics BML or strictly with the Suncoast diet, but don't combine them.

Now, on to the next thought, it could possibly be Hypocalcemia (also known as Hind Leg Paralysis) even though it's affecting the front hands as opposed to the back feet. Every glider is affected differently by it. Read through the linked article for more information about diagnostic tests to have your vet run and also about treatment options if it does test positive. Keep in mind that sometimes the problem isn't lack of calcium but that the body isn't metabolizing the calcium properly so that it isn't getting to the bones but is staying at elevated levels in the bloodstream. There can be a variety of reasons for this - the article also goes over that information.

Some infections will also leach the body of the calcium resources and cause Secondary Hypocalcemia. Testing for infections - both bacterial and parasitic - should be run to see if there is a primary infection present. Tests include Fecal Float AND Smear along with Urinalysis AND Culture & Sensitivity. Even if an infection does not readily present itself with these tests, a broad spectrum antibiotic, such as Baytril, along with an antiparasitic, such as Flagyl, should be prescribed for prophylactic treatment.

Feel free to print this out and bring it with you to the vets when you go back. I would suggest getting back to the vet today if at all possible because IF it IS an infection, treatment needs to be started ASAP.

Please keep us posted on your little one's progress. If your vet needs to consult with another vet about the testing and treatment options, Dr. Tim Tristan in Texas is willing to speak to other vets via phone consultation. His number is 361-994-1145.

I'll be moving this over to Health & Hygiene now...
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#441160 - 12/29/07 09:55 AM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: sugarglidersuz]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
Suz has some great suggestions for you. I am going to add one more. Cooper had a massive staph infection, and it caused a huge number of symptoms, but one of those was that he curled up his right front hand and wouldn't use it unless he HAD to. The infection was so severe that it had blocked off some of his tiny blood vessels, killing the skin in certain areas, and his hand was one of those. It swelled his hand up, like arthritis or hives, and made it incredibly painful for him to use. He would cry and bite if we touched it. So, you take that baby back to the vet, and get him tested. If you are uncomfortable with the one you already went to find another. Those infections, while making them sick, will also start causing other problems, it just snowballs really quickly to death. Please take your baby back in.
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#441320 - 12/29/07 02:32 PM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: USMom]
outnumbered421
Unregistered


Thank you all for your help and support. Our regular vet is not in until monday and we drove an hour to south austin to see the specialist on Friday. I was dissapointed that he did not know anything about what was going on with our glider and did not offer much help other than running a bunch of tests and x-rays. All he kept asking was if he ate some metal or something rotten.

As far as mixing the diets we usually do not. We tried the bml and my son uses the suncoast diet most all of the time because it is just easier. We have given them a bml block here and there but not for months. I am sure we are the ones at fault but I am not sure it is that we have mixed diets. My 18 year old son, who is going to major in zoology is the one who brought these little sugar gliders into our lives. The male and the oldest female are his and I fell in love and got a female in late october. It is his male who is the only one who is sick. We will take him to our vet on monday and print out your suggestions sue, thank you for giving us some much needed information to share with him.

If anyone else has any ideas or suggstions please post! I am willing to change to whatever diet the group thinks is best for him. We are so new to gliders and are just trying to do the best thing for these little guys.

We did trim his nails today and we are feeding him yogurt on the hand. He has always been a grumpy not super cudly glider like my sons female. He definately has his own ideas about how things are to be run around here! My female is still getting used to me and it is slow going!

Thanks again,

Sara

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#441729 - 12/30/07 09:47 AM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: ]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
Sara, you are in Austin? Which vet did you go to? Which one do you normally use? Westgate Pet and Bird is who I use, Dr Echols or Dr Lusk. They are in South Austin, Mopac and 290 area. My number is in my signature if you want to call me and talk. There are a lot of glider owners in the Austin area.
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#442652 - 12/31/07 05:08 PM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: USMom]
outnumbered421
Unregistered


Thank you Shawna! That is where I went and we saw Dr.Lusk. I was surprised at how little he looked at our glider and that he had never seen anything like it. I think I am going to take him here in RR to our vet that sees our dogs, cat and ferret. There is one vet in the practice that sees exoctics and has seen our ferret. I noticed someone was from this area! I am glad you contacted me! We are new to gliders and are trying to do the right thing for him, we are so worried!

Sara

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#442761 - 12/31/07 08:13 PM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: ]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
Sara, give me a call anytime. What are his symptoms like other than not using the hand? What part of RR are you in? Could you bring him to me, or could I come and look at him? You don't have to answer in here, just call. And if you have a vet in RR that will see Suggies, who is it? One of our other members, PeeperKeeper lives in Georgetown, and she found someone up here, too, so maybe its the same?
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#443185 - 01/01/08 03:19 PM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: USMom]
outnumbered421
Unregistered


Hello Shawna,

I would love for you to come and look at him! I am very close to georgetown. I am off of 3406 and I-35. We need all the advice we can get! We take our other animals to Round Rock Animal Hospital and one of the doctors there sees the ferret and exotics. We asked him if he saw sugar gliders and if he had knowledge about them and he said he does.

My son got this little guy from Herpeton in Austin in May. He was a baby then but has always had a bit of a temper. This is the 1st sugar glider we bought. We thought we had researched diet and were doing the right thing. My son researched and studied about them for about 6 months before getting one. His gliders eat different than mine. My little girl is so picky! His eat the glider grub from Herpeton with the acacia gum on it to soften it and then fresh fruits and veggies and meal worms. I feed mine the suncoast soft grub, fresh fruits and veggies, yogurt on my hind to get her to like me and she has just started eating meal worms. She is very very picky! She will not drink water but will drink gatoraide. I realise now I should also be feeding her a calcium suppliment. I made the BML for her the day before I got her and she would not ever eat it, she will now so I am switching to that I think. She has been eating it up along with meal worms and fruit and veggies. My sons are eating that now also, I do not know why he has not been feeding it to them since I have had it made and frozen in cubes. It is easy for him, he doesn't even have to make it!

Do you work? I am a stay at home mom so I can meet anytime just let me know!

Sara

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#443199 - 01/01/08 04:06 PM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
My suggestion is to take your glider to another vet. Suggest a a direct fecal smear and float with a cytology,UA and possibly a C&S.

My guess is your sugar glider is suffering from a bacterial illness which is blocking much needed calcium.... thus the hands being curled.

vet usually will perscribe an antibiotic such as flagel or baytril or combination of both along with oral calcium.

diet needs to be addressed but will not solve the physcial issues if related to an illness.


Edited by Judie (01/01/08 04:12 PM)
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#443214 - 01/01/08 04:44 PM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: Judie]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
I do work, but am willing to come anytime after or on the week end. Judie has given some good advice, take them to your vet, and have them run the tests. Ask about the calcium. Are there any other symptoms?
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#443929 - 01/02/08 04:16 PM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: USMom]
outnumbered421
Unregistered


Hello Everyone,

Thank you for all of your help and information! We took Apollo to our vet today and he was so much more helpful than the specialist we drove an hour to see! I printed out the info you all provided and he was very thankful for it! He also went on line while we were there to an exotic vet resource and no other vets have ever posted anything about front hands. He is going to continue to research and he posted something about Apollo. He ran some tests on his poop sample we took in (a float and a smear)but both came back neg. for anything. He went ahead and put him on baytril I think per the recommendations from this site I printed out! He said it would not hurt! He really thinks it is neurological which is a total bummer! It is possible he has had some kind of seizure. He said it is possible he will get better with time but is just unsure right now. He is going to call us in a few days after he has had time to consult with the vet sue gave a number for and hopefully he will get some answers from some other exotic vets on the website he has access to.

Again, I can not say Thank You enough Sue and the rest of you for all of your help! We hope that the Dr will come up with some answers and be able to help him! The doctor was glad we had changed his diet to the BML but was doubtful that it was all of his problem since his legs are fine it is just his hands. Time will tell.

Sara
Stay at home Mom to 4 boys, wife to wonderful husband who puts up with barking sugar glider in our room at night!

Animals in the house;
3 Sugar Gliders, ferret, bird, cat, 2 Shih Tzus, fish, 2 bearded dragons.

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#444256 - 01/02/08 11:47 PM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Sara I dont know why in the world I didnt think of this before hand...

I had a rescue come in to me way back when I was fairly new with gliders. Anyway, I had turned him around and he was doing WONDERFULLY...and then all of a sudden, just like you are mentioning...his front hands started curling up, almost like he had arthritis really bad...took him in, ran all sorts of tests, everything came back fine...

Long story short, we had a windspinner in his cage, it was a toxic toy, and one he loved to play with. Of course we didnt know it was toxic when we put it in there. We took it out and a week later, Spike was fine. He wound up hating me thinking it was me that did it to him, but wound up living for several years after that with one of my coworkers.

Have they had any blood work done? Do you know if you vet has contacted Dr. Tristan like Suz recommended?
_________________________
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Critter Love
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#444345 - 01/03/08 05:49 AM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: Srlb]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Sara. thanks for the update. I hope your vet is able to figure out what's going on soon. Your mentioning that the vet thought it may be nuerological reminded me... Both my Cricky & Pika experienced neurological problems last year. We never did figure out what the root cause of them was. It may have been a series of strokes - they were both over 12 years old - OR it may have been toxoplasmosis (I have two cats)... as I said, we never really figured it out, here are the threads I posted at that time:
Ear Infection or Neurological Damage?
Neurological Damage
I don't know if you'll find any useful information in those or not... but maybe something in them will ring a bell and help out dunno
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#444414 - 01/03/08 10:20 AM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: sugarglidersuz]
outnumbered421
Unregistered


Thank you Peggy and Sue! I am going to ask my son if he had put any new toys in his cage before this happened! I know now all he has are a few plastic simpson toys that came with the new movie in the bottom of his cage! He is in a small cage now to prevent him from getting hurt. We took out the cage pouch because he was getting stuck and hanging from his back legs on it, we put a bonding pouch in the bottom of the cage. We gave the antibotics for the 1st time last night and that went well LOL! We also have a cat but he does not come in contact with the gliders, I will research the toxoplasmosis. Thank you both for giving me some more things to research! I am waiting for the vet to call us back and see what he found out! I will have a list of questions by the phone!
Sara

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#444419 - 01/03/08 10:22 AM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: ]
outnumbered421
Unregistered


Ok, My son came in the room and he did clean his cage right before this happened and then on Christmas gave him the Simpsons toys. This started happening a few days after that! We are taking the toys out now and cleaning the cage!

Does anyone have any thoughts on the fuzzies for him? I have NEVER considered feeding them but got on a thread last night about them and started to wonder if they might help him with the added calcium/vitamins. Thoughts?

Sara

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#444425 - 01/03/08 10:29 AM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: ]
Zucker
Unregistered


I could never feed a baby mouse to my suggie, I'd never look at my suggie the same!

But that's just me.

And not fuzzies, pinkies. Pinkies are the naked babies, and fuzzies have fur. You want to feed him/her pinkies.

(Though I could never do it, I'll stick to my mealies. LOL )

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#444433 - 01/03/08 10:35 AM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: ]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
Fuzzies are fine to feed too Alora - I actually use fuzzies over pinkies because they're a little older and their bones have started to calcify, thus supplementing the calcium level as well as protein wink
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#444445 - 01/03/08 10:51 AM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: BeckiT]
outnumbered421
Unregistered


It is not something I want to do believe me! It is not something I thought I would ever do but after reading some threads last night I thought it might help him get the use of his hands back and I am willing to try it if it will help him! It would have to be frozen ones and I couldn't do it, someone else in my family will have to do the job!

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#444812 - 01/03/08 08:47 PM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: ]
outnumbered421
Unregistered


Hello Sue,

I wanted to thank you for the info on your little glider with neurological damage and his cage. Here is an update of how me modified Apollos cage today.
We made some of your no sew shelves for Apollos cage today so that he can not fall, we put one of my sons smelly t-shirts on the bottom and took out the simpson toys. We went to pets mart and bought him a few new things, A ball in the bird section that has holes all in it with a bell hanging inside, it hangs in the cage and another small bird toy that is small ropes with beads on it. It was hard to find things since he can not jump around. We also found a little house that is a soft fuzzy material and looks like a tree stump. We hung that very close to the ground but it is still hanging so maybe that will cheer him up. We bought him some cantalope, mango, kiwi and fresh cherries. He ate all of his fruit! We also bought some flavored applesauce and "iced" his bml with that.
Do you know the link for meal worms? I saw it on here somewhere yesterday and now I can't find it!

SARA

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#444820 - 01/03/08 08:58 PM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: ]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#444824 - 01/03/08 09:06 PM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: USMom]
outnumbered421
Unregistered


Thank you Shawna, which ones do you order? How many should I feed a day, I have read different things.

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#445038 - 01/04/08 06:03 AM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I usually get the "Large" mealworms and feed about 3-4 per day. Do NOT get the "Mighty Mealies" - they are vicious and have been known to actually BITE blush
I'm glad you were able to modify his cage and that my old threads helped some. I think removing the Simpson toys was a very good idea since his symptoms showed up within a few days of putting them in the cage. Can you possibly get a picture of the toys and send it to me via PM? I'd like to take a look at them. I'm going to go to the store to see if I can find them... I'm very curious about the possibility of them having a toxic coating... dunno Anyway, thanks for the continued updates hug2
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#445102 - 01/04/08 10:29 AM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: sugarglidersuz]
outnumbered421
Unregistered


Hello Sue,

Yes We will take some pictures this am and send them to you. My boys dropped my camera and it is being a little difficult but I think I can get it to work! My hubby looked up the error and he says I should just get a new camera Yeah for me but I hate to shop for that kind of thing! I am not good with electronics but my hubby and boys are!

Sara

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#445141 - 01/04/08 11:49 AM Re: glider is not using his front hands [Re: ]
outnumbered421
Unregistered


Here is a photo of Apollos hands. He keeps them curled up like this all the time. Thanks for all the help! Sue, I sent you a pm with some photos of his cage and new toys for your inspection.

Sara

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh212/4boymom/Sugar%20Gliders/Apollos_Hands.jpg

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