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#442245 - 12/31/07 01:15 AM The Cooper Saga Continues
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
I am going to have to go to the vet tomorrow, and beg for medicine for my entire glider room cry I lost the first glider we ever got, Spandex on Saturday. His whole cage is sick, Sugar, Doodle Bug and Cuddle Bug. They have the same symptoms as Cooper, without the Eschar (skin loss). I started them on the Clavamox Saturday night. I just noticed that Biscuit has a couple of the same symptoms they have. His behavior is fine, but he has diarrhea and the area around his cloaca is enlarged, like there is something in there. Cooper had this and so does the other cage. But, he is 3 cages from them. Biscuit is eating fine. But the three are not, their coat is greasy looking, their eyes are dull, they won't come out unless I make them, they have diarrhea, they aren't eating much...
Has anyone ever had an illness go through their entire glider room before? How did you handle medicating all of them? How did you not go crazy? I have 18 gliders in there. What am I going to do? cry
The only thing I can think of is that I didn't wash a pouch, or I didn't wash my hands or something before I messed with their cage.
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#442247 - 12/31/07 01:20 AM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: USMom]
Happy Birthday Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Oh, Shawna! hug2 hug2 I know a few have had giardia sweep thru a roomful....you start by setting out meds, and filling syringes by cage, then going ONE GLIDER at a TIME, one cage at a time, washing in between. hug2

Also, when this type of situation, put each glider's med syringe in a different styrofoam or plastic cup with the glider's name on it to avoid mixing them up or cross contaminating.

At least you caught it early! Please keep us updated.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#442248 - 12/31/07 01:21 AM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: USMom]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
cry OH Shawna! I can't believe this is happening to you! The only other person I can think of right now that had to medicate all her gliders is Sugarlope. She just finished treating 8 gliders.
The best thing to do right now is to go thru and wash everything from top to bottom!
Make sure they all stay hydrated, and kept warm. I am so sorry to hear this...Sending you tons of prayers... hug2

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#442249 - 12/31/07 01:22 AM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: Xfilefan]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
cry Not early enough! This is my nightmare come to pass. I have a glider in there that is almost 16 years old, this would kill him. Heck, this might kill me.
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#442253 - 12/31/07 01:33 AM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: USMom]
Happy Birthday Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
As early as they let you. Coop gave you some valuable experience...these weren't having their skin peeling off, so get you together-you KNOW how well they hide things! Medicate them ALL whether showing symptoms or not, Miss-even your old man guy and head it off.

The SINGLE BIGGEST ERROR most make is to not medicate long enough. The recurrence is more likely to be fatal than the initial infection-and you got this early enough that NOT ONE of these need get to where Coop did. hug2

MINIMUM THREE WEEKS PER GLIDER on meds. You can tell your vet I said so. (lol, like that'll help-but it just might if you say it right). Coop was on longer but he had more healing to do. As long as no further or worse symptoms, go for 21 to 30 days...with what we know of this, and we know it can kill, I wouldn't do less.

Hun, you'll get into a routine where it's one glider after another, one cage after another. I know it doesn't seem like it. I've had as many as 8 gliders at once on meds, 5 different cages. I know that's not as much, but within a week I could spend 10 minutes twice a day on meds (it started at about an hour...)

Have towels ready to hold each one, with meds in syringes in their cups, lay them all out in a row, and start down the line. When washed after, return syringes to cups. I put the glider's name or initials on the towel (in permanent marker-they are forever 'glider towels'- for that glider, and folded it with the cup. Have 2 per glider, so while one is used, the other can be washed, particularly since the meds can cause loose stools. You can have more per glider if you want, but don't mix them. I wash between cages, since the gliders in each cage will sleep/eat together/groom each other, but keep meds/syringes/towels as separate as possible.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#442257 - 12/31/07 01:51 AM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: Xfilefan]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
Well, Coop is still on the medicine, per doctors orders. Until that tiny little spot just under his chin is healed, he stays on the meds.
3 things I forgot to mention. First, Spandex had a spot on one toe that looked like the beginning of an Eschar. It was very small, about half the size of a lowercase o, and that was the only spot I found. Second, the cage they are in, was the cage Coop was in. I scrubbed it, disinfected it, sat it in the sun. About 2 weeks after I put them in it, I realized the climbing branch that was in there was Coopers (I drill a hole in each end and zip tie them to the cages). Oh no! Wood, soft substance that can stay damp and withstand disinfecting!!!! So, that is how they probably got it. Biscuit and Cooper both went with me to my moms for Christmas. Not in the same cage, but their cages were right next to each other, and I didn't wash my hands between the two. Now I know Coop Monster is still contagious. Smart Doc.
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#442259 - 12/31/07 01:53 AM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: USMom]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
I'm so sorry Shawna hug2
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#442261 - 12/31/07 01:58 AM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: USMom]
Happy Birthday Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
That's okay, Shawna. hug2 You seem to have caught the source-which means you can get rid of it. Taking care of gliders (or a severely ill one) like that is exhausting, and it can't be expected that a mistake will never be made. Get rid of the offending items, and sterilize again, and treat.

Quote:
Biscuit and Cooper both went with me to my moms for Christmas. Not in the same cage, but their cages were right next to each other


but were their pouches next to each other or touching at any time? or something similar? It can be that simple and transmit that easy.
hug2 Hang in there-you'll get thru, and you have a head start on already KNOWING what meds to use, instead of trial and error while things get worse. And we're here for you. hug2
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#442262 - 12/31/07 02:00 AM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: Xfilefan]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
Only at Peggy's. I held Biscuit, then I held Cooper, then Biscuit crawled on me while I was holding Cooper (in his pouch). I guess I will be freezing my fingertips off, cleaning cages tomorrow. Oh well, cold is supposed to help you lose weight, right?
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#442264 - 12/31/07 02:11 AM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: USMom]
Happy Birthday Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
This time of year here, the water freezes outside as fast as it hits the cages (it's been -6 to -12 degrees at night...) put them in your bathtub and use a bucket and hot water if you need to. I bought a $9 extendable showerhead at walmart to do mine in the winter. It's not easy and your bathroom ends up half flooded, but it beats freezing - and water mops up (AND the marks they make in your tub will come up with cleanser). You can also mix a capful of bleach in a couple gallons of water for a disinfecting rinse (make sure and wear something you don't mind if it gets on you)...sponge on or you can put it in a spray bottle and spray it, then rinse really well. That will help kill any bacteria on there. And all cold does is make you shiver and dry your skin - and it's NOT aerobic shivering, either.

I wish I could help more.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#442359 - 12/31/07 10:01 AM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: Xfilefan]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
Okay, we have meds for the 5 that are sick. The vet that is on duty today isn't my regular vet, and wouldn't prescribe it for the whole room, just for the ones that are sick. But we got both Baytril and Clavamox, which is a stronger punch when you are dealing with Staph.
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#442393 - 12/31/07 10:46 AM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: USMom]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
I would go with the Baytril. Also, for the others that ARE NOT sick and not being treated, until your regular vet determines if they should be treated or not I would keep them isolated from the sick ones. Sending many prayers and hugs to you and your babies! hug2

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#442438 - 12/31/07 12:12 PM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: LSardou]
kthiessen Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/04/06
Posts: 4526
Loc: Columbia, Missouri
hug2
_________________________
~ Kathy ~


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#442439 - 12/31/07 12:17 PM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: LSardou]
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 5965
Loc: Northeast Indiana
Bless your heart, Shawna!

I'm sending prayers for strength and healing your way...you definitely have your hands full. I think you've been given some TERRIFIC advice, so I'll just lend you some moral support. And hugs hug2 hug2 hug2
_________________________
Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,
5 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry

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#442461 - 12/31/07 12:55 PM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: minkasmom]
BCChins Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 3089
Loc: Central Connecticut
Shawna I am thinking of you and the gliders. We are here if you need to vent. I am sory you are going though this again.
_________________________
Have a Good Day
Brenda &
Mr. Magoo

Friendly Reminder please have an e-collar ready before you need it......

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#442466 - 12/31/07 12:59 PM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: BCChins]
BCChins Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 3089
Loc: Central Connecticut
off_topic Jen Xfilefan your PM are full. I wanted to ask you a question about cleaners.
_________________________
Have a Good Day
Brenda &
Mr. Magoo

Friendly Reminder please have an e-collar ready before you need it......

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#442726 - 12/31/07 07:21 PM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: BCChins]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
Thanks for all the support and thoughts! I really appreciate them, besides, who doesn't like a hug? Really? I'm glad I got the meds today, I pulled out the Clavamox I did have and it was...yellow? Apparantly it changed colors over the last week and I didn't notice, but comparing to what was in the new bottle, I did. So that is a good thing! Biscuit took his meds quite well, but the girls can grab ahold of my hands, and they are ripping me up. I am NOT clipping their nails while they are as poopy as they are, because its just everywhere. But as soon as that clears up, they are getting clipped.
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#442742 - 12/31/07 07:45 PM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: USMom]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
hug2 Oh Shawna, I am so sorry that this is happening to you. I had a Giardia outbreak that I treated twice a day (only 6 gliders, nothing compared to your 18) for over a month.

This is what helped me (this and some crying, etc.) I set up an area that was just for their meds. I got a supply of syringes and marked them all with glider names. I kept cages in separate cups (like Jen was saying) but made sure I kept their syringes marked so that only that glider got that syringe each time).

Twice a day I mixed up ensure and gliderade (the only thing I could add to their meds to get them to take it w/o forcing it down their throats) and filled syringes then dropped the appropriate amount of meds in the top of each syringe each night. One thing to be aware of, since they do med calculations by weight, you may need to be checking and recalculating dosages (according to whatever your vet tells you) every so often through the course of a month. I don't know if all meds are this way or not, but the Flagyl was and when I mentioned to my vet that the glider's weights had changed, she said "Oh yeah, did I forget to tell you to recalculate that?" shakehead

I know you've gotten into a routine with Cooper, the rest of the gliders will get used to it too. If you can find something they like, they may even look forward to it for a while.

I responded in the other thread about cleaning, but if you have any questions about what I did with mine or you need anything even just a sympathetic ear, you can absolutely call me or PM me anytime. My number is (573) 876-6076 if you want it.
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#442757 - 12/31/07 08:10 PM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: sugarlope]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
Thank you Gretchen! I have seen posts where other people have had to give meds to multiple gliders and you don't understand the scope of that until you have to do it. At least I don't have to do any dosing calculations right now. Probably will have to starting Wednesday, though. I know they are done by weight, but the receptionist went back and forth between the phone (me) and the vet to get approval for the meds. I just don't think the vet wanted to explain it to her. I will be e-mailing my vet for proper dosing instructions.
I know the boys are enjoying the attention, the girls are not. They prefer to be left alone, they always have.
As for poopy girls, any thoughts on using a baby wipe to clean their tummies? I have the Huggies Naturally Refreshing kind. Will it hurt them if they lick it?
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#442763 - 12/31/07 08:17 PM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: USMom]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
I think I've heard as long as it doesn't have alcohol, baby wipes are supposed to be ok. dunno

I know what you mean about cut up hands, though...mine are just starting to heal from looking like I was in a war (with lots of tiny little swords roflmao ).
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#442982 - 01/01/08 09:38 AM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: sugarlope]
Happy Birthday Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I won't use wipes because other than alcohol they contain other chemicals as well, and leave a residue on the cage. Unless you rinse it off, it's not completely safe, and at that point you may as well wash the cage. For a wipe down, I use plain hot water.

Also, unless there is a SIGNIFICANT weight change in a glider-20 grams or more up or down, the dosage of Flagyl should not need adjustment. I've had enough gliders on it at enough weights to have a pretty good idea of range.

How're things, Shawna? hug2
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#442987 - 01/01/08 09:55 AM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: Xfilefan]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
They are well, LOL! Biscuit will take his meds without me holding him, so that is beautimous news! The girls are killing me, just killing me. They crab and wiggle and struggle and hold their breath, and try and get away, try to escape from the holding cage...But they will take the meds. I don't get it. Their poo is getting better, Yay!

As far as the meds go, they are on Baytril and Clavamox, but the vet that prescribed it has never seen my gliders. He just said give everyone the same amount you were giving Cooper. Well, there is a 150 gram difference between the smallest glider in this group and the largest. I know that can't be right.
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#442988 - 01/01/08 10:02 AM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: USMom]
Happy Birthday Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Not unless it's a really, really low dose. My vet MAY be able to help, if you explain this one isn't experienced, and what he said, and be ready with the weights (of the gliders), which meds, and the mg/ml of the mix. It won't hurt to ask-if she can't she'll say so, but will if she can. She's likely not in today, but should be tomorrow:

Dr. Laurel Harris
801-485-4736

Worst case, she could call your vet and tell him to tell you. With a weight range that wide there should be some differences, particularly with these meds. worried
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#443088 - 01/01/08 12:45 PM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: Xfilefan]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
I weighed all the gliders today, and Cooper has dropped 6 grams, from 84 to 78.
The girls are as follows: Sugar 172, Doodle 86, Cuddle 80. Sugar looks much bigger than she is. Her cloaca area looks like it is full of pee, any suggestions until I can get her to the vet tomorrow?
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#443153 - 01/01/08 02:29 PM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: USMom]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
Glad to hear the girls are getting a little better (at least less messy!) Sorry Coop's weight is down though. I don't really have any suggestions (sorry), just hugs to give. hug2 hug2 hug2
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#443172 - 01/01/08 02:53 PM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: sugarlope]
suggiemom
Unregistered


Aw Shawna! I'm so sorry to hear about your babies being sick!! If I was closer I'd come help do meds, and clean. I'm sure it's chaotic!! I've always envied those with a whole room for gliders while mine are spread out throughout the house, but maybe that's not a bad thing...

Best of luck to you and your little ones. Sending lots of thoughts and prayers your way!!!

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#443184 - 01/01/08 03:17 PM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: ]
SuggieLuver4941
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: minkasmom
Bless your heart, Shawna!

I'm sending prayers for strength and healing your way...you definitely have your hands full. I think you've been given some TERRIFIC advice, so I'll just lend you some moral support. And hugs


That's just about all I can do too! So . . . . . hugs hug2 and prayers coming your way!!

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#443222 - 01/01/08 05:01 PM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: ]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
Thanks for the support, me and my poor hands, need it! I look like I stuck my hand in a blender.

I have seperated Sugar from the other two, and put her on a heating pad. Hopefully we can get her better. She seems to be much sicker than the other two. They don't have the seriously runny poo's that she does. Theirs are soft, but not liquidy. I just finished bleaching their cage. I'll put the twins back in there, and give Sugar one of my hospital cages. This way I can keep a closer eye on her eating/pooing and the twins eating/pooing. Biscuit and Cooper seem to be doing very well. I will be taking all 5 of them in to the vet this week, most likely Saturday. I am going to be weighing them all every day, too.

Good grief, I'm tired.

Here is a new picture of CoopieDoo to cheer everyone on!


Attachments
001.JPG (32 downloads)



Edited by USMom (01/01/08 05:03 PM)
Edit Reason: pic disappeared
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#443674 - 01/02/08 11:03 AM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: USMom]
BCChins Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 3089
Loc: Central Connecticut
Shawna how is everyone today? And how are you doing?

_________________________
Have a Good Day
Brenda &
Mr. Magoo

Friendly Reminder please have an e-collar ready before you need it......

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#443710 - 01/02/08 12:08 PM Re: The Cooper Saga Continues [Re: BCChins]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
Neither of the twins ate last night. I didn't think they were eating, but Sugar eats so much, it is hard to tell. Doodle has visibly lost weight, but since I haven't weighed her in a long time, I have no way to tell how much. I did weigh everyone yesterday, though. I need more hospital cages!!!! This is crazy, I have gliders all over the house, and the twins are in a HUGE cage, and Sugar is in a teeniny little bitty, not even a travel cage. Sob.

Other than that, I'm tired. I am waiting for the vet to get back to me with proper dosages for the babies.
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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