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#458589 - 01/22/08 11:20 AM Recurring UTIs
SarahW Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 542
Loc: Norman, OK
I'm at my wit's end trying to figure out what to do about my two girls. They're generally pretty healthy, but for the past 18 months (really, since we've moved to the new place), they've gotten a UTI every 3 to 5 months. I think it's been 4 times we've treated them for a UTI in the last 18 months, and we're about to start another round of meds today.

I can't figure out what's going on---we care for them in the same way as before. Cage is cleaned regularly and rigorously, water changed regularly, food washed well before serving. Their vitamins and calcium levels are monitored and well within limits. They did have two stresses in the last 18 months: moving, and then a year ago their two male cagemates died of respiratory infections (they never showed signs of it, and though a vet check showed them to be ok, they were treated with meds at the time just in case).

We do know it's a UTI and not urine crystals. I don't remember the name of the bacteria but the vet said it was a common enteric (gastrointestinal) bacteria. He thinks the gliders are transferring the bacteria to their urinary tract from their digestive tract when they groom their cloaca. We've always had success treating with two weeks of meds, except one time when we started with a softer med and moved to a stronger one. I always catch it early on (they hiss when urinating), but it seems to come on faster each time and I'm worried their next one will hit when I have to be out of town.

My questions are: what do you think could cause recurring UTIs? Are gliders more susceptible to UTIs once they've had one? Have any of you dealt with this issue before?

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#459016 - 01/22/08 07:32 PM Re: Recurring UTIs [Re: SarahW]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
What type of cage are they in? If it is galvanized wire this can be one cause.
Have they checked his Urine Ph levels? Sometimes if the PH is high this can lead to UTI's. What type of water are you offering? Tap, bottled, purified or distilled. Sometimes the high minerals in water can cause calcification in the urine.
Are you washing their 'fresh fruits and veggies' throughly?
I'm not suggesting that this is the problem, but there is a bacteria called (Morganella) that is caused from bad fruit...and the symptoms are similar to a UTI

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#459249 - 01/22/08 11:06 PM Re: Recurring UTIs [Re: LSardou]
SarahW Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 542
Loc: Norman, OK
The cage is PVC-coated wire from Klubertanz. Water is filtered tap water (filter should remove heavy metals and bacteria). All food is washed thoroughly before I cut up and serve it. Dishes are cleaned and dried throroughly between uses.

We know it's a bacterial UTI because the vet tests the urine each time, and I think it's been the same enteric (intestinal) bacterium each time. It's definitely been bacteria each time. The doctor says that they transfer the bacteria from their intestinal tract to their urinary tract when they clean their cloaca. What we are trying to figure out is how they keep getting infected, when we're very careful with keeping things clean and sanitary.

I was only wondering if it's easier for a glider to get infected, once they've been infected. Are they more prone to UTIs once they've had one?


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#459274 - 01/22/08 11:47 PM Re: Recurring UTIs [Re: SarahW]
7glider7
Unregistered


Not that I know of dunno But I guess some gliders might be more prone to infection than others.

What diet are you feeding?

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#461343 - 01/25/08 04:48 PM Re: Recurring UTIs [Re: ]
SarahW Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 542
Loc: Norman, OK
They've been on the BML diet for the four years I've had them and the two years before that.

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#461372 - 01/25/08 05:57 PM Re: Recurring UTIs [Re: SarahW]
North_Nocturne Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 606
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
I have the same issue with one of my gliders. He actually came to me at 7 1/2 weeks with a UTI and he's been battling them for the past two years. However, in our case his cagemate has never had a UTI.

The vet North saw for his first 1 1/2 years kept prescribing the standard procedure of culture & sensitivity with relevant antibiotic for 2-4 weeks. I switched to a new vet and she's interested in being much more aggressive about treatment. Right now North is currently finishing up a 60 day course of Baytril and I finally have some hope that he won't be suffering with UTIs for the rest of his life. Even if these meds don't do the trick, I know our current vet is as committed to curing these infections as I am.
_________________________
Elizabeth
gliders. Nocturne & Lark

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#461404 - 01/25/08 07:06 PM Re: Recurring UTIs [Re: North_Nocturne]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Our vet told us to use Spring water ONLY and to add about 2 drops of Apple Cider Vinegar to each bottle to ward off bacteria. It worked for us. It stopped one of our boys from getting UTI's. smile
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#461410 - 01/25/08 07:13 PM Re: Recurring UTIs [Re: SugarBlossoms]
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 6573
Loc: Kilgore, Texas
Dont gliders have to be on antibiotics longer..........like a month to kill the bacteria properly??? I think I read this somewhere but I could be totally mistaken. Good luck with your girls........that has got to be tough!!!!
_________________________
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#461450 - 01/25/08 08:08 PM Re: Recurring UTIs [Re: Cora]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Our boy was on Baytril for 10 days. I've heard of some suggies on antibiotics for much much longer to clear recurring infection though.
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#461661 - 01/26/08 03:40 AM Re: Recurring UTIs [Re: SugarBlossoms]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
If the infection recurs, and if it's the same bacteria-what you now have (likely from not being on the meds long enough the first time) is a RESISTANT STRAIN . That means that even though a particular med SHOULD kill it-it may not. If you've used the same antibiotic every time, it's time not only for a different one, I would recommend a combination of TWO antibiotics for a duration (length of time) NO LESS than 21-30 days-personally, I'd go (and have-I had one in the same situation it took a 3 month course of Clindamycin, Flagyl, and Baytril to finally cure-he had a recurrent facial/sinus infection) AT LEAST 30-45 days. Resistant bacteria are nasty, and very hard to get rid of.

Quote:
Our boy was on Baytril for 10 days.

In rare cases or if the infection is very mild, that might work, but in most, with gliders, you end up with a resistant bug. Glider metabolism processes differently from domestic animals. After the first two resistant bugs we managed to spawn doing that, I always recommend, for ANY course (and follow my own advice) NO LESS than 14 days even for a first occurrence-because you only have to miss a few, and you have a drug resistant infection that is more difficult every time to try and get rid of.


Edited by Xfilefan (01/26/08 03:45 AM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#461888 - 01/26/08 03:24 PM Re: Recurring UTIs [Re: Xfilefan]
schlep
Unregistered


I responded to this thread by starting another UTI thread, as I don't want to divert SarahW's responses.

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#461899 - 01/26/08 03:44 PM Re: Recurring UTIs [Re: ]
SarahW Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 542
Loc: Norman, OK
Thanks to everyone for their help. I think that the resistant strain is the most reasonable hypothesis because it fits better with the signs the gliders are showing. I will start using the apple cider vinegar in their water and will ask the vets about the meds.

The first three times the girls had their UTIs, we treated them for 10 days with milder antibiotics, and it worked (they stopped hissing). Last time was much worse---two sets of the milder meds, then 10 or 14 days with Baytril. The first set on the milder med was 10 days, then when they were still hissing (though more quietly) at the end of that treatment, we did another 2 or 3 weeks on the milder meds to try to clear it. They were off meds for only maybe 4 or 5 days before the hissing started again. We went and got more cultures, and found that the enteric (intestinal) bacteria was still there, though in low numbers, along with white blood cells (indicating the body was actively fighting an infection). No urine crystals and the pH was fine. At that point the vet put the girls on Baytril for 10 days which cleared it up for about four or five months.

This time the doctor has them on Baytril twice a day for 14 days, but he included quite a bit extra, and I may just continue for as long as I have the medicine (I have at least 3 weeks' worth of Baytril, perhaps more). I will call his office on Monday to see if he's ok with this. I'll also be doing extra cage cleaning and sanitation to kill whatever comes into the cage via their feces and urine.

It's all very frustrating; I want to keep them in perfect health, but it's been hard with all these UTIs. Also, the Baytril makes them a little constipated, which means monitoring their food and water intake more important. I just wish this would all be fixed.


Edited by LSardou (01/26/08 04:14 PM)
Edit Reason: removed dosage

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