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#47601 - 05/29/05 10:46 PM Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Part 2
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16745
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
To view part one please go Here .

Also, please leave this thread for the diet talk, if you all would like to discuss cage size, open a new thread in housing and accessories...thanks <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#47602 - 05/29/05 10:50 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Part 2 [Re: ]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
Much easier!

As far as the high protein cereal, Wombaroo has it if I am not mistaken.
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Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#47603 - 05/30/05 12:33 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Part 2 [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16745
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
People use the High Protein Wombaroo in place of the High Protein baby cereal. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#47604 - 05/30/05 03:29 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Part 2 [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
Must have missed it! I didn't see where J-D mentioned using the Wombaroo HPS as a replacement for the high protein cereal. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#47605 - 05/30/05 03:54 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Flying Elvis speaking about what Dr. J-D has told her...
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Thanks Srlb, she did tell me about wombaroo.com, but it was the "not widely available"/shipped only by a very few suppliers part that worried her.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> I believe elsewhere it's implication was mentioned. I think availablility was one of her chief concerns when considering whether or not to promote the use of a product such as Wombaroo HPS.

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#47606 - 05/30/05 04:40 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
Big Ern

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I think availablility was one of her chief concerns when considering whether or not to promote the use of a product such as Wombaroo HPS.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

That seems strange that she was not also concerned about the availability of high protein cereal and some of the other components she mentions in the diet. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#47607 - 05/30/05 05:03 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


True, I guess you'll have to ask her about that.
I'd think that the wombaroo HPS is probably easier to get in all honesty.

Somewhere in that previous thread there was some mention of how to go about simulating the high protein baby cereal.
Or maybe it was somewhere else I saw it, I'm not sure.

Bottom line, the Dr. J-D diet all in all isn't gonna be an easy one that just anyone can go to the grocery store and line up all the ingredients. Just the same, a glider isn't a pet that is that easy to get either. You can only do what is in your means I suppose.

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#47608 - 05/30/05 06:21 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


HIGH PROTEIN BABY CEREAL=
I hate to repeat myself, but I guess I didn't state this very clearly the last couple times:

"High" protein is 5g of protein per 30g serving (about 2 Tbs).

I have found both organic (Earth's Best) and grocery store (Gerber) baby cereals, multigrain, low fiber, with 4g protein per 28g serving. The reason Dr.J-D adds EGG (compare to Queensland EPA glider diet) is to make up for this very small difference in protein.

Thus, while there isn't anything on the grocery store shelf called "High Protein Baby Cereal", there ARE baby cereals in the USA that contain enough protein for gliders. Read the nutrition info on your local brands and add an egg.

Hope this helps... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

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#47609 - 05/30/05 06:30 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Marla, thank you for stating that again! I must of missed it before hehe, I get lost sometimes with so many posts....

I was going to go out of my way to order the HP wombaroo, but if I can just replace it with a gerber baby cereal and add an egg, that would be alot more convenient for me! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanx.gif" alt="" />

Question though, it says to add an egg... would I stick still adding just the 1 egg, or would I be adding 2 now that I am getting the gerber baby cereal?

Also it says adding calcium is optional... and I can;t find where it recommends any certain type of vitamins. I will be using The Pet Glider vitamins... if I do decide to add extra calcium, should I be using with or without d3?


Edited by Pocket Angels (05/30/05 07:07 PM)

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#47610 - 05/30/05 06:32 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Part 2 [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16745
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Must have missed it! I didn't see where J-D mentioned using the Wombaroo HPS as a replacement for the high protein cereal.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Charlie, sorry you misunderstood me. I personally was not talking about Dr. D stating to use it in place of, I was talking about it stating it right on the box of the High Protein Wombaroo, that is should be used in place of the High Protein Baby Cereal. I believe I had stated that in a previous post as well when I typed up what it stated on the box itself. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#47611 - 05/30/05 06:32 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
I am not designing diets but I do agree with you Marla. It doesn't seem that the difference between the high protein cereal and regular baby cereal would be significant since there are also other protein sources in the diet. And she does recommend supplementing with vitamins and calcium. Someone asked about what vitamins J-D suggested. It was Vionate and the calcium supplement was calcium carbonate. Remember that the Vionate contains D3 so the calcium should be without D3. SunCoast carries both of these items.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#47612 - 05/31/05 09:09 AM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Wasn't the replace ment of the cereal with wombaroo a different amount too? Like 1/2 the amount of wombaroo is equal to so much cereal?

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#47613 - 05/31/05 09:31 AM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Jess, I think I recall it being stated in the pdf that vionate is recommended. If calcium is used, to use the pharmacy grade calcium carbonte (i have that if you want any.. i have a specialiazed compounding pharmacy in the area that i buy in bulk from)

I however have a few questions of my own:

1)Is this recipe per glider.. which would mean each glider would get 2 tbs of leadbeaters and 1 of insectivore?

2)I've always been told citrus fruits and leafy veggie should be fed sparingly, however, many of these have the appropriate ca:ph ratio and good fiber and sugar as well? are they okay to feed now?

3)when evaluating sugar.. is there a certain sugar to use? right now i am evaluating my produce on total sugar but there are also fructose just glucose and so forth...

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#47614 - 05/31/05 09:31 AM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


amanda, you are right.. if you use hps you need half the amount.

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#47615 - 05/31/05 09:42 AM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
I would still think to use the citrus and such sparingly, unless the new diet causes constipation. I would think that that would be directly addressed, however. The ratios are very good in papaya, dried figs, cherrys and I think mango.
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#47616 - 05/31/05 10:19 AM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Tonia, Yes, I believe it is PER glider.... so 2tblsp leadbeaters and 1 of insectavoir. In the first recipe on the second page it says this: 2 tablespoons= 1 glider serving

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#47617 - 05/31/05 10:21 AM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


from what i've seen neither of those (except figs) have a ratio close to 2:1 but I could be wrong.

i am trying to compile a list of good ca:ph first and then look up the sugar and fiber information for those foods...

if anyone wants to double check it or give me information to add just let me know.

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#47618 - 05/31/05 10:22 AM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


amanda,
would it be 2 of insectivore too tho? since it's 50 leadbeaters and 50 insectivore..which means each glider is getting 4 tablespoons.

this might be an issue for me as my gliders do NOT eat that much every night.

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#47619 - 05/31/05 12:18 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
Tonia--
Papaya is 24 to 5
you are right about the others, though. I just looked them up. Papaya is one of the best fruits out there for these guys!
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#47620 - 05/31/05 12:37 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Okay, so, I just made a double batch of the original leadbeaters in this diet, using Gerber Oatmeal baby cereal, which has 2g of protien for every 15g serving. I also used the pet glider vitamins and no extra added calcium.

A double batch made me 30 cubes, so 60 tablespoons... BUT, feeding 1 cube PER glider, with 14 gliders, will only last me 2 nights! To make food for the whole week, I would have to make 7 batches <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Although it will still take me less time than my old diet lol, so I shouldn't be complaining

2 tablespoons of leadbeaters and 2 tablespoons of zks, along with a treat, seems like ALOT to be feeding one glider per night...

any comments?

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#47621 - 05/31/05 12:48 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


24 to 5 would be 4.8:1

ca:ph should be 2:1

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#47622 - 05/31/05 12:50 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


It does say 2 tbsp of leadbeaters and 2 of ZK.... that would make 4 tbsp per glider.... Here's the Link again! <img src="...ot;" />

I agree on the amounts, even 3 tbsp per night for my guys is too much, but I won't have to worry about it too much cause I'll be adding my vits(Pricilla's) fresh at night. I'm not going to add any to the leadbeaters.

Keep in mind these are diets for gliders in LARGE cages at ZOOS, chances are our gliders are not as active or have as much room, so portions would naturally need to be smaller to prevent weight gain.

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#47623 - 05/31/05 01:00 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


hmmm but how much would that be *hmmmm*

i am still working on a produce list.. not sure how much fat or sugar is too much or too little but i'm getting there

i tried to look on queensland's site for the list that's supposed to be there and didn't find it

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#47624 - 05/31/05 01:17 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, I do not have the insectivore fare yet, waiting for it to be delivered, so tonight I will be feeding the recommended 2 tablespoons per glider, but along with more fruit and veggies. Once the insectivore fare gets here, I will lower it to 1 tablespoon of leadbeaters per glider, and see what happens.

I also will most likely, start adding the pet glider vitamins fresh instead of putting it in the leadbeaters batch.

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#47625 - 05/31/05 02:40 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
Tonia, so a higher calcium to phosphorus ratio is bad? I was kind of under the impression that it would help balance out the stuff that I feed them that has a lower balance. Am I doing it wrong?
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#47626 - 05/31/05 03:20 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
I was just re-reading the pdf document on this and I am reading this, on page 2 "an artificial nectar (either leadbeaters mix or one designed for honey eating possums)" and it says that for feeding captive gliders: "Portion size for one glidter is roughly a tablespoon of insects, and a tablespoon of nectar, plus fresh water available always." I hope this answers the portion questions that y'all are having. The fruit is a treat. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#47627 - 05/31/05 03:35 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Those of you considering using the pet glider vitamins. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />
Not to rain on anyone's parade or trying to say it isn't a feasible option, but one thing to think about is whether those vitamins are enough. Specifically whether they have enough calcium or not.

Priscilla's diet uses the calcium added OJ concentrate which contributes a good amount of calcium to the diet. Sooo, maybe you guys should try to see what kind of differences you're gonna have to compensate for, calcium being of utmost concern. I'm just afraid that you guys might unknowingly be using a calcium deficient diet, and we all know what that leads to. I'm guessing that if you want to use the petglider vitamin that you might need to add a little calcium to the leadbeaters?

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#47628 - 05/31/05 04:06 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Good point Ernie... I have no idea how much you would want to add... any math genuis out there want to figure that one out? I've still got some rep-cal calcium left that I've been trying to use up, so I've been adding that every other night or so, just a pinch(?) 1/32 of a tsp. But I hadn't really given it much thought... thank you for bring ing that up.

I would say that since Dr. JD says to just add in calcium carbonbate along with Vionate that we should just add what she suggests. Sprinkle calcium carbonate everynight along with the PP vitamins? Or could that add too much calcium to the diet????

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#47629 - 05/31/05 04:19 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
Isn't the Insectivore fare supposed to be a balanced diet. Check it out. You may only need enough vitamin/mineral supplements to balance the Leadbeaters and other ingredients. And actually you need an analysis of the Leadbeaters to formulate the diet correctly.

Trouble is once you get all of this analyzed no one knows the actual daily requirements of a sugar glider. If you start substituting other vitamins than the ones J-D recommends you are getting away from her diet.

I don't think you are accomplishing anything by purchasing calcium carbonate from a pharmacist. Do you know what strength it is. Most calcium carbonate is from 35 to 40 per cent calcium. I might add that the Vionate that J-D suggests using as a vitamin supplement contains Vit D3.

Seems everyone is going in their own direction on this. Will be interesting to see the final results of each diet and compare them.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#47630 - 05/31/05 05:29 PM Re: Dr. Johnson-Delaney : Glider Diet Shocker! Pa [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> good grief... too much thought into this one I think.... Personally I think everyone makes diet too complicated. We've got SO much knowledge floating around I don't think it's THAT much of a guessing game. I personally am not going to sit down and do a bunch of calculations just to find out the EXACT vitamin counts on what I am feeding. If the glider is given a varied and vitmin enriched diet, I really think that should be enough....I mean, I know people who feed baby food and sprinkle their vitamins on and their gliders are very healthy, so... I just think we make it more complicated by getting SO detailed about the diet.
I know that we have ot be careful not to overdose them on vitamins... but really, the way I'm doing it, I'm not real worried about OVER or UNDER dosing them. I think Pricilla's vitamins are pretty complete, with or without her diet plan. I told her I was using only "parts" of her diet along with her vitamins and she didn't object at all. And no where on her site can I find something saying that HER diet HAS to be fed with the vitamins.
To be honest I think Pricilla's whole point of making a vitamin was to make a universal one, not one that just fits with her diet. This is only my opinion of course drawn from the fact that she's never once said the vitamins have to go along with HER diet exclusively. But that seems to be the assumption everyone is making.

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