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#4957 - 01/17/02 03:41 PM Aflatoxins & alternative cricket diet
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
This was sent to me by Marcia awhile back
(Some may remember the Groom's Cicket article I posted)
Marcia has been a scientist for 26 yrs - (retired due to health prob) & has worked with & been taught by a couple of friends of hers - Dr. Fredric. L. Frye and Dr. Roger Klingenberg.

(Ellen I have a copy of Dr. Frye's Pathology report on her Leopard Gecko's, I also took a copy to my vet & emailed a copy to a Zoo Nutritionist friend here in the US, awhile back) They were all very interested in this information.

Apparently crickets can store large quantities of this toxin in their bodies, and the cronic ingestion by insectivores causes this poison to build up in their systems. The liver's function is to filter, or cleanse the bloodstream and becomes unable to do it's job. The animal becomes anorexic, and therefore the stored up fat in their system becomes mobilized and the liver is unable to synthesize this fat. These fatty lipids basically clog up the liver and the organ eventually fails.

I have has lost 15 Leopard Geckos since last Nov to hepatic lipidosis but have been able to save 5 others by reversing the condition. These survivors were probably not as advanced in their liver disease as the others, and are fully recovered and thriving well. I euthanized the last one last week, but was able to keep her alive for 6 months by dropper feeding and a supplement "concoction" I came up with. I believe this treatment saved the other 5 sick ones.

First of all I switched cricket vendors as soon as Dr. Frye implicated the feeders as the cause of mycotoxic poisoning. I am now using Sequoia Ranch Cricket Farm, and they can be reached at XXXXXXX. They are located in CA, and feed their crix fresh food daily. I get the crickets very young and feed them fresh food changed every day with the following:

Dry Cricket Food
1 bag: Dry milk (D,calcium,iron)
1 cup: Shelled sunflower seeds (E)
1 box: Rice baby cereal (iron,calcium,phosphorus, B1,B2, niacin)
1/3 cup: Spirulina (B1,B5,B6,B12,E,beta-carotene,iron,chlorophyll,amino acids)
3/4 cup: Raw bee pollen (B1,B2,B3,B6,B12,folic acid,C,D,E,K,minerals)
1 cup: Wheat germ (E)
1 cup: Alfalfa leaf tablets (A,B6,E,K,enzymes)
1/2 cup: Dried sea kelp (iodine)
1 Dried egg yolk
1/2 cup: Dried high protein monkey chow

(blend all the ingredients in a food processor, freeze the bulk, store a 1-week supply in the refrigerator).

I also have Marcia's listing for-
Fresh produce, Dropper food & Liver Health Supplement

She also states- I hope this information can help you and others who love their herps, and perhaps your vet or those at Texas A & M would be interested in seeing this.
Marcia knows about our sugar glider's and the Aflatoxin problems, she has also spoken with Dr. Frye who is the world's most authoritative figure in Reptile research about this!

Dr Roger Klingenberg is aurthor of the book
"Understanding Reptile Parasites"

<small>[ 05-25-2002, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Lucy ]</small>
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#4958 - 01/17/02 04:26 PM Re: Aflatoxins & alternative cricket diet [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
Pockets, as I would expect YOU came up with some MORE great info. ( didnt we talk about this one before?). BUt I have forwarded this info to A&M and to a few others that are working with me and the vet studies.<p>I am moving this to diet and Nutrition. I know it will be of great vlaue there too.
(I would like to leave it here and post it in Health and Hygene. )<p>Thanks Pockets. We can always count on you. <img src="graemlins/thumb.gif" border="0" alt="thumb" /><p>[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: Ellen ]</p>
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#4959 - 01/17/02 04:52 PM Re: Aflatoxins & alternative cricket diet [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ain't that the truth, Ellen? Pockets, that is great information. I hope those who continue feeding crickets take that to heart. <p>Until we were referred to the lizard board and read about the geckos dying of exactly the same thing, I imagine most of these insect companies thought "those glider people are really crazy." Now that this has popped up in another "camp" with exactly the same type of impairments and deaths, in another species with only the insects as a common demoninator, it makes it harder to ignore. <p>The cooperation with the gecko people has been so important. I hope we all continue to communicate and share information. <p>And, POCKETS, we WILL be seeing you the last weekend in July, right?

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#4960 - 01/17/02 06:15 PM Re: Aflatoxins & alternative cricket diet [Re: Anonymous]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
Ellen & Lucy
Sorry but I won't be able to attend this year (sad)
As you probably both know I will be adopting a wallaby in the near future, well the "Macropod Informational Exchange 2002" is July 26, 27, & 28 in Columbus Ohio this year. To close to home to miss & looks like I will be attending with Geoff from "Perfect Pets Inc" (USA Wombaroo supplier), one of my Exotic vets is also interested in attending.

Guests -
Dr. Ann Gemensky - speaking on corneal ulcers & cataracts in macropods.
Dr. Eric Abrahamsen - explaining the use of anesthesia,sedatives & tranquilizers & how they affect macropods.
Dr. Jon Dyce -will discuss cervical spinal cord injuries.
Dr. Cliff Monahan - will be speaking on intestinal parasitism (coccidiosis).
Dr. David Anderson - will be lecturing on case presentations that he has experienced at Ohio State vet Hospital.
Dr. Michael Barrie - will be speaking on handling toxoplasmosia in a zoo.
Adelle Hodge - will discuss macropod husbandry at the Columbus Zoo.
There will be a hands on demonstration at the Ohio State veterinarian Teaching Hospital for veterinarians.
A behind-the-scenes tour of the Columbus Zoo is also pending.
Lynda Stalker - Australian Wildlife rehabilitator (for 30 yrs)& Educator, & Author of "Don't Step Backward's"
Dr Bruce liked her book at the last yrs SGGA!<p>There is much more but this is so long now (sorry)
Hopefully I will learn some new info that pertains to our loved Sugar glider's .<p>These are some of the marsupial experts out there guy's at least in the USA!<p>[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: POCKETS ]</p>
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:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
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#4961 - 01/17/02 06:56 PM Re: Aflatoxins & alternative cricket diet [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Very invaluable information, I must say...With all the warnings re: crickets, I just don't know what to do with mine...I have over l,000 in the freezer at the moment...Is the disease they can acquire over a looong period of time, or do you think I'm safe to, at least, feed these crickets?...I ordered them from Grubco...Also, is this particular food recipe something that we should also be feeding mealies, or is it safe enough for them & the gliders to feed oatmeal, wheat germ, wheat bran, potatoe, human cornmeal & vitamins?...After reading all the current posts on crickets, I'm beginning to get nervous, as I would like to hope that I'm feeding something healthy...not something potentially dangerous... <p>WOW!...Find myself celebrating AGAIN...For the SECOND time, before I got wiped out<p> <img src="graemlins/worried2.gif" border="0" alt="worried" /> after my FIRST 200th post, I finally did it again!... <img src="graemlins/dance.gif" border="0" alt="dance" /> <img src="graemlins/multi.gif" border="0" alt="[blob]" /> <p>Love My Suggies...Sassie & Cassie<p>[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: PATCHES ]</p>

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#4962 - 01/17/02 07:21 PM Re: Aflatoxins & alternative cricket diet [Re: ]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
Patches
Wish I could answer your questions, as many are lost with this Aflatoxin issue here, myself included!
I am just trying to collect research from very knowledgeable people, & get the word out. We need help in the glider world & I am sure someone will come to our aid! (I sure hope so)
What I understood from Dr. Bruce Ross & Dear Ellen
was if your glider's are doing okay - it is okay to feed crickets. Some have choosen not to feed them, but Grubco (In my opinion) seems to be a good source. I purchase from them but do feed insects sparingly to my little people.
I know we are all afraid & with very good reason -
I'm sorry I can't help you & your little ones more - But I will continue to research
_________________________
:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
http://www.marsupialsociety.org

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#4963 - 01/17/02 09:37 PM Re: Aflatoxins & alternative cricket diet [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
Of course you will Pockets. And we do understand <img src="graemlins/worried2.gif" border="0" alt="worried" /> I know you missed the the one last year for us. We do appreciate that. But we will miss you this year. I know you will come away with alot of updates for us.
YOu will be missed.<p>I believe in keeping with the majority so I will transfer this to Health and Hygeine<p>[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: Ellen ]</p>
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