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#498560 - 03/08/08 11:46 AM What Makes a Mill Breeder?
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
I started this thread so as not to get THIS thread off topic.

It was asked What Makes Someone A mill breeder? My response:

A mill breeder is someone who sells their gliders to anyone with the available money. I don't care if you have 2 pairs, or 100 pairs, really. If you are giving all your gliders excellent care, and you can do that with 100 pairs - more power to you. It comes down to mill breeding when you are just doing it to make money. You don't care where the gliders go, you don't interview the buyers, you don't follow up and make sure your babies got a good home. When you are selling so many babies in A WEEK that they have numbers, and you never even met the person buying them - that's a mill breeder.

If the females are always pregnant, and then rehomed or "euthanized" when they are no longer productive - that's a mill breeder.

If the joeys are pulled too soon, so that the mother can focus on the ones she is ALREADY pregnant with - that's a mill breeder.

For me, I honestly believe that if you can give excellent care to 200 gliders, or pay someone to do it with you, (as I believe Priscilla does (?) ) - and still interview the buyers, never sell wholesale, treat each joey as if it is a LIFE and not a dollar sign - more power to you!

For the record, Mike McGrath's home is apparently wonderful. He has a few cages of very tame breeding gliders - all in large, very clean cages. All will approach anyone. Looks really great!

He doesn't mention the WAREHOUSE where he has 100s of other gliders, all in 1x1 cages, all breeding as fast as he can pull the joeys.

Originally Posted By: bingos_mom
Come to Kentucky and visit her shops here and talk with the people who run them. Get a FULL picture of everything, not just your area.


The ones in "our areas" ARE her shops, too. They sell her joeys. They represent her. They sell the joeys to anyone with a buck, and recommend things like pocket-knife neutering. THAT *IS* Her! Like it or not - the ones not in her home are her responsibility, also - if she sells them to "franchises" then she is a mill breeder!
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#498565 - 03/08/08 11:49 AM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ValkyrieMome]
peace
Unregistered


Great post.

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#498566 - 03/08/08 11:50 AM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ValkyrieMome]
phayzed
Unregistered


clap clap clap clap

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#498584 - 03/08/08 12:11 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ]
krysKritters Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 2664
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
GREAT POST!
I would also like to add that if the "breeder" is selling sick gliders/joeys and has no care of the health or well being of a glider.... They are a mill breeder!
I actually have one in my area that I know of and so far 3 out of 4 joeys die due to health, malnurishment, being to young to leave momma, and overall NEGLAGENCE! (and the 4th joey that did survive had to be nursed back to health and required extensive vet care!)
That is a mill breeder!
_________________________
Krys DeRosa
Godfather of the NY Glider Mafia

KrysKritters.comcloud9

A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world.

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#498599 - 03/08/08 12:25 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: krysKritters]
fliptout Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 515
Loc: Tennessee
Pocket knife neutering is what Mike Maxwell does not Kathy. Kathy can't even clip nails let alone neuter gliders.
I bought my white face pair from a reputable breeder, didn't get a care sheet, didn't get anything that showed what they ate and never a follow up e-mail to see how they are, and she is highly respected on GC

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#498601 - 03/08/08 12:26 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: krysKritters]
cntrychck18
Unregistered


I got my gliders from Mike McGrath (didn't know he was a mill breeder at the time). I can tell you that he probably never held them. They are about 4 months oop and still don't understand that my hands are attached to me!

I would also say that a mill breeder most likely has no idea of an exact oop date for their gliders. I have no idea how old mine really are except for rough estimates from GC people looking at pictures!

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#498615 - 03/08/08 12:51 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Does Mike Maxwell work for Kathy or operate under her business name or supply gliders to him? If so, it makes her responsible for his actions.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#498622 - 03/08/08 12:56 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: Dancing]
fliptout Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 515
Loc: Tennessee
No Mike Maxwell doesn't have anything to do with Kathy. He lives in Woodbury Tennessee and sells at bird shows, flea markets and such. Lots of people confuse him and Kathy

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#498630 - 03/08/08 01:04 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: fliptout]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Maybe, maybe not. But Ron Wright DOES work for Kathy. And he and people in his booth DO recommend pocket knife neutering. In fact, they were DOING it at the Flea market - and extra $50, done while you wait!

Kathy was "horrified" to learn of this procedure, and was going to "take care of it". Guess what? Still being done. No action taken.

They work for Kathy - she is responsible. She is aware of the situation, and has taken no action. She IS A mill breeder.
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#498634 - 03/08/08 01:07 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ValkyrieMome]
fliptout Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 515
Loc: Tennessee
I know what i am talking about Maxwell does not work for Kathy. The one that does the neutering does it with a Caterizing stick

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#498638 - 03/08/08 01:10 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: fliptout]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
The one that does the neutering does it with a Caterizing stick


I'm sorry but you said this like there was NOTHING wrong with it....maybe I misread that and just a bit moody today, however unless this person has a VETERNARIAN degree and license...they SHOULD NOT be neutering....not with a pocket knife, not with a caterizing stick, not with a clamp....not with ANYTHING!!

To do so, they should be shut down and neutered by us!
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#498644 - 03/08/08 01:15 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: Srlb]
phayzed
Unregistered


A cauterizing stick? No, they use POCKET KNIVES. At Ceasers Creek Flea market. It's not a male that does it is, it is a FEMALE.

Seriously, do you think we are making this all up??????????

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#498645 - 03/08/08 01:15 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: Srlb]
fliptout Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 515
Loc: Tennessee
I didn't say i agreed with it I said it to make a point. people are making claims and they don't know what they are talking about.

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#498647 - 03/08/08 01:17 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: fliptout]
phayzed
Unregistered


Omg.


Are you REALLY serious?.....

Have YOU personally been to the flea markets in Ohio that KATHY SELLS HER GLIDERS TO and seen the conditions? I'm doubting it.

Guess what? I HAVE. It's not pretty, it's not fun, it's not sunshine and roses. They sell UNSAFE glider products, including wire wheels and edible huts. They sell SMALL cages. I've been personally told that vet care was an "unnecessary expense."


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#498649 - 03/08/08 01:18 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ]
Destani
Unregistered


That is VERY disturbing shakehead

Alden, great post!! clap

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#498650 - 03/08/08 01:19 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: fliptout]
fliptout Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 515
Loc: Tennessee
I know exactly who it is her name where she lives and all

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#498651 - 03/08/08 01:21 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: fliptout]
phayzed
Unregistered


Oh do you???

Can you PM me what info you have? I'd like to see if you are right. smile

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#498653 - 03/08/08 01:22 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: fliptout]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Originally Posted By: fliptout
people are making claims and they don't know what they are talking about.


No one made any claim. Someone *asked* if Maxwell was associated with Kathy. Asked and answered. Does your answer get Kathy off the hook for being a mill breeder? NO!!

Ok - so there's this Maxwell person who is a mill breeder, too. So - that doesn't absolve Kathy in any way for the consequences of her decisions and actions. Gliders under her care ARE pocket-knife neutered. And, apparently, cauterized. Ok - so - why did you mention that as a means to defend her? It just makes it worse in my eyes!

I'd like to add to my previous list of things that make a mill breeder:
Any person or individual working for the breeder makes claims as to the need for (or lack there of) veterinary care, and/or offers to "save you money" by doing veterinary procedures themselves. THAT'S A mill breeder!
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

Top
#498670 - 03/08/08 01:36 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: Srlb]
Melissa2721
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Srlb
Quote:
The one that does the neutering does it with a Caterizing stick


I'm sorry but you said this like there was NOTHING wrong with it....maybe I misread that and just a bit moody today, however unless this person has a VETERNARIAN degree and license...they SHOULD NOT be neutering....not with a pocket knife, not with a caterizing stick, not with a clamp....not with ANYTHING!!

To do so, they should be shut down and neutered by us!


clap
clap
clap

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#499228 - 03/09/08 05:21 AM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Alden and Peggy! Yay for your posts!!!!

I've heard so much about Kathy over the years from people who sell at flea markets and the buyers of the poor innocent gliders! She is a mill breeder anyway you look at it!

Her and her employee's practices are not only immoral, they are illegal and disgusting! Neutering with ANYTHING other than STERILE equipment IN an operating room AT a licensed Exotic vet BY the vet is sick!
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#499352 - 03/09/08 12:52 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: SugarBlossoms]
melek007 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/03/07
Posts: 3874
Loc: Eastern NC
Thank you Alden! clap
_________________________
~ I miss my Alev, Nese & Levent ~

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#499647 - 03/09/08 09:38 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: melek007]
EGM
Unregistered


I bought Jack from a mill breeder. I have no Idea for sure how old he is. I think there should br more laws on the sell of a joey. I think they should have to register every joey that is born to a breeder. They do it with puppies so why are glider less important? IMO

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#499668 - 03/09/08 10:05 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ]
SandSmammas
Unregistered


Just want to say ROCK ON!
clap clap clap

If anyone is interested, please look at my forum in her listed as Pocket Pets (I am in tears!)

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#499731 - 03/09/08 11:13 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ]
7glider7
Unregistered


I don't find it excusable that "someone else under her employment" was neutering gliders and that she "didn't know about it."

If you have employees that are doing that kind of practice, then AT BEST, 1) you are not screening your employees nearly well enough, or 2) your business is too big and you are clearly unable to keep track of your employees and their actions.

To me, that this sort of practice was going on at all, whether she knew about it or not, would make it a business that is not well regulated rather than a caring glider breeder.

***If you care about gliders, not money, why would be have 600 gliders and allow them to breed when there are so many gliders out there who need homes?***

I can understand breeders who breed on a small scale because that is what they love, and of course, there is some demand for baby gliders. But there is not that much demand, and personally, I feel anyone breeding on that scale is in it for the $$ and not for what is best for the gliders.

Also, I'd like to protest the comment made in the previous thread that "If you are going to pay $300 for a glider, why not get a joey instead of a skittish adult with baggage."

You can blame it on me if you want to, but the two friendliest gliders I have are the two that we adopted as adults. The two I raised from joeys are friendly, but not nearly as personable, playful, and affectionate as our two adopted gliders.

Yes, some rescues come with baggage, but this is CERTAINLY not a universal rule, and someone who would post this, to me, is someone who perhaps has not been fortunate enough to have the rewarding experience of adopting an older glider.

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#499764 - 03/09/08 11:53 PM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ]
suggiemom
Unregistered


First of all, whether it's with a pocket knife or she's cauterizing them, she is BREAKING THE LAW. It's called practicing veterinary medicine without a license and it's very frowned upon. In fact; just this week my vet told me to lodge a complaint with the states attorneys office, etc. and it's just what I plan to do. Thank you for telling me for sure that she's cauterizing. I appreciate your help!!!

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#499787 - 03/10/08 12:32 AM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ]
meg
Unregistered


Question.. Does this Kathy/Glidersrus have a set up in london ky?

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#499799 - 03/10/08 01:14 AM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ]
suggiemom
Unregistered


I know she has them in KY, but not sure which locations. It sounds familiar though.

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#499801 - 03/10/08 01:18 AM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ]
meg
Unregistered


Well the reason why i asked is im ALMOST postive when i first rescued Ozz the girl i got him from was feeding him pellets that came from her store.. It has glidersrus on it i just wasnt sure if there was only one bus. named that..she also gave me something to add to his water ?? (When i got him first thing i did was changed his diet(bml) and gave him fresh clean nothing added water..)

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#500008 - 03/10/08 10:40 AM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ]
suggiemom
Unregistered


She may have given you gliderade to add to the water, but I'm not sure. I use it sometimes as a treat, but not on a permanent basis.

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#500024 - 03/10/08 11:06 AM Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I will add here too about the comment about paying $300 for an adult with baggage...

Many many rescues are available with NO adoption fee what so ever.

Yes, some adults have baggage but guess what...some joeys are so traumatized by being pulled from their parents at an early age that they have severe trust issues and/or severe health issues.

Responsible breeders do not pull their joeys before 8-12 weeks oop. Even the joeys that are eating on their own, next to mom and dad, at 5 weeks. Just because they can eat does NOT mean they should be pulled from mom and dad. They learn so much from the parents.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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