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#498661 - 03/08/08 01:30 PM Confused About Color Variations and Health
RaiSaix
Unregistered


Ok, I'm very confused on this topic. Now over on www.sugarglider.com they firmly stand by their belief that breeding for color variations is bad for gliders health as many of these gliders receive their color through inbreeding. But here I have seen no such topics... Can someone clear this up for me because at the moment I have no idea where I stand on this issue...?

Here is a link to a huge debate on the link between inbreeding and color variations: http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8486&whichpage=1

THANKS! smile

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#498666 - 03/08/08 01:34 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ]
glidergrl1513 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 5725
Loc: Upstate NY
As a whole, breeding for certain colors is not bad for the gliders' health, as long as it is done responsibly. It is true, though, that many gliders "had" to be inbred in order to get a certain color (which is why it is so important to research and really know the lineage of any glider you are planning on breeding).

Creminos, albinos, leus, and mosaics all have a lot of inbreeding in the lines if I'm not mistaken.

I am strongly against any inbreeding with sugar gliders - it is not done for the health of gliders, it is ONLY done for cosmetic purposes.

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#498671 - 03/08/08 01:38 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: glidergrl1513]
Melissa2721
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: glidergrl1513
As a whole, breeding for certain colors is not bad for the gliders' health, as long as it is done responsibly. It is true, though, that many gliders "had" to be inbred in order to get a certain color (which is why it is so important to research and really know the lineage of any glider you are planning on breeding).

Creminos, albinos, leus, and mosaics all have a lot of inbreeding in the lines if I'm not mistaken.

I am strongly against any inbreeding with sugar gliders - it is not done for the health of gliders, it is ONLY done for cosmetic purposes.


I agree 100% Hollis !
clap thumb clap

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#498672 - 03/08/08 01:39 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ]
RaiSaix
Unregistered


I also have heard that some subtle variations such as white face and white tip occur naturaly in the wild... Is this true?

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#498679 - 03/08/08 01:44 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
White tips occur regularly in the wild in Australia. I am not sure of WF, but it had to come from somewhere, so I am sure it can occur in the wild just as the colors leucistic and albino can. dunno
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#498684 - 03/08/08 01:51 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: sugarlope]
RaiSaix
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: sugarlope
White tips occur regularly in the wild in Australia. I am not sure of WF, but it had to come from somewhere, so I am sure it can occur in the wild just as the colors leucistic and albino can. dunno
I'm sorry, But I don't beleive Leus occur naturaly in the wild. I believe that albinos were geneticaly altered to not have the ruby eyes. I feel this way because they just seem to out there to be natural but I know albinos occur naturaly in almost every animal in the world.

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#498685 - 03/08/08 01:51 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: sugarlope]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Leucistic is a color variation. Albino is a genetic mutation. Both of these can occure in the wild but generally they do not survive because of preditors. A white glider can not blend in to the trees well and stand out to prey animals. They become easy targets.

Yes, most leus and albinos are inbred. This is because there are so few in captivity and those that want to make the big bucks are willing to risk genetic deformities to have what is so rare. Which is also why they are so expensive to buy.

With the leus, responsible breeders are and have been working very hard to "breed out the lines" by pairing up hets with greys to introduce new genetic material to the blood lines. Now, today, is is possible to get leus that are VERY distantly related but sadly, many newbies only see $$$ and are not concerned with making sure the gliders ARE very distantly related. So, yes, the close inbreeding continues.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#498690 - 03/08/08 01:56 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: Dancing]
RaiSaix
Unregistered


Are lions and cinnimons commonly inbread? And I am still wondering why there aren't more of these discussions on this site. Also, is it possible to find white faces that are naturaly occuring or distantly related?

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#498691 - 03/08/08 01:58 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
Leucisism is in MANY animals naturally not just sugar gliders.
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#498697 - 03/08/08 02:00 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: princessmegi]
RaiSaix
Unregistered


Oh! I didn't know that...

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#498700 - 03/08/08 02:03 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: princessmegi]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#498701 - 03/08/08 02:05 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: princessmegi]
RaiSaix
Unregistered


Wow! Now why couldn't I find them?!? Thanks! smile thanks

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#498704 - 03/08/08 02:06 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#498707 - 03/08/08 02:15 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: princessmegi]
RaiSaix
Unregistered


Cool! Still, its sad that people breed just for money and cosmetics.

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#498708 - 03/08/08 02:20 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
Yes it is, but breeding for color can be done in a way that doesn't harm the animal or their offspring. MANY of our breeders are breeding unrelated gliders of color and this doesn't hurt the gliders at all. Just because they are a color variation doesn't mean they have a weakened immune system or health problems. Look at the different races of humans...all can be just as healthy as another.
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#498712 - 03/08/08 02:25 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: princessmegi]
RaiSaix
Unregistered


Can you please tell me some breeders on this site who breed WF and Buttercreme babies safely?

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#498713 - 03/08/08 02:26 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Originally Posted By: RaiSaix
I also have heard that some subtle variations such as white face and white tip occur naturaly in the wild... Is this true?


I'm pretty sure I can post this link here:
http://video.nationalgeographic.com/vide...lider-kids.html

The first glider in this video is a wild White Tip. Edit: there is also a wild White Face in there.


Edited by ValkyrieMome (03/08/08 02:27 PM)
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#498718 - 03/08/08 02:29 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ValkyrieMome]
RaiSaix
Unregistered


Hey your right! Preety cool!

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#498721 - 03/08/08 02:32 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Originally Posted By: RaiSaix
Can you please tell me some breeders on this site who breed WF and Buttercreme babies safely?


I have a WF and a Buttercream breeding together. They are completely unrelated ... but I'm not sure I'm selling any joeys. Their first, and so far only, joey was just OOP on Sunday.

I'm really just replying to your post in order to brag - I'm shameless that way!
A bad picture of my Buttercream and WF

Their adorable joey. Not WF, but maybe Buttercream?
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#498758 - 03/08/08 03:03 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ValkyrieMome]
RaiSaix
Unregistered


AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! Cute! Congrats! clap

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#498762 - 03/08/08 03:10 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ValkyrieMome]
AmyLynn
Unregistered


Julie from GlidebyGliders has Lions and WF. I got a WF from her and she is healthy and very friendly. I also gave a WF from Lenya and He is so cute and sweet. Both breeders, I would get another glider from.

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#498803 - 03/08/08 03:45 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ]
RaiSaix
Unregistered


Great!!! thanks I will definately have these people in mind when I finaly adopt!

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#498810 - 03/08/08 03:50 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Where do you live? There may be a good breeder close?
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#498849 - 03/08/08 04:26 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ValkyrieMome]
Melissa2721
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
Originally Posted By: RaiSaix
I also have heard that some subtle variations such as white face and white tip occur naturaly in the wild... Is this true?


I'm pretty sure I can post this link here:
http://video.nationalgeographic.com/vide...lider-kids.html

The first glider in this video is a wild White Tip. Edit: there is also a wild White Face in there.


Awesome video Alden, I sent it to my little cousin who thinks my 'flying hamsters' are the coolest roflmao

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#498872 - 03/08/08 05:11 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ]
RaiSaix
Unregistered


LOL cute!

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#499265 - 03/09/08 10:04 AM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ]
RaiSaix
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Melissa2721
Awesome video Alden, I sent it to my little cousin who thinks my 'flying hamsters' are the coolest roflmao

My mother calls them "Rat-Bats"! roflmao

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#499561 - 03/09/08 07:49 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: princessmegi]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#499568 - 03/09/08 08:02 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ]
JBlues
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: RaiSaix
Are lions and cinnimons commonly inbread? And I am still wondering why there aren't more of these discussions on this site. Also, is it possible to find white faces that are naturaly occuring or distantly related?


What about this question

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#499576 - 03/09/08 08:11 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ]
RaiSaix
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: JBlues
Originally Posted By: RaiSaix
Are lions and cinnimons commonly inbread? And I am still wondering why there aren't more of these discussions on this site. Also, is it possible to find white faces that are naturaly occuring or distantly related?


What about this question
Yes, can someone clear this up?

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#499579 - 03/09/08 08:14 PM Re: Confused About Color Variations and Health [Re: ]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
Typically, lions and cinnamons are not inbred because their lines are a little more widespread. One great breeder of lions is SugarBaby22 on this site, but I believe she may be neutering her male.

Yes, it is possible to find naturally occuring WF, but most breeder's gliders are not wild caught, but may be descendants from wild caught. Also, the majority of breeders are breeding WF that are distantly related or completely unrelated. Ask the breeder to see the glider's lineage.
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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