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#501289 - 03/11/08 05:00 PM Leadbeaters - confusion in a name
Marz Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 708
Loc: Melbourne Australia
There is so much confusion when people put their own version of a diet up and call it leadbeaters.It is confusing to new and experienced owners alike when references to leadbeater's diet are made and the diet is different to another "leadbeater's diet". The irony of it all, there never was a leadbeater's diet as such.

Leadbeater's mix is the name of the artificial nectar mix which is just a part of an overall sugar glider's diet. It was so named because the mix was initially developed by Des Hackett mainly to feed captive leadbeater's possums. Over the years, both Melbourne Zoo and Healesville sanctuary developed the leadbeater's mix and overall diet further. Taronga Zoo has their own glider diet and they too use one of the original formulations of the leadbeaters mix. It was made up basically of honey,water,eggs, cereal and sustagen. Healesville Sanctaury developed the actual sugar glider diet further to make up for any dietary inadequacies. They changed the artificial nectar mix ingredient ratios too for this reason. Eventually they changed sustagen to bird vitamins simply to streamline the diet for the facility. The name "leadbeaters mix" is no longer being used as this artificial nectar mix is being fed across a larger number of native species.


There never was any yoghurt, apple juice, baby foods etc in the Australian forms of this mix (and still isn't). This only occured when people like Ruth Grove, Betsycc, Bourbon etc etc etc were modifying the original nectar mix recipe in US. The modifications are still happening today but by still using the term leadbeaters is quite misleading. Calling it artificial nectar mix is much more appropriate and then any variations could be Fred's artificial nectar mix, Sue's artificial nectar mix etc... to distinguish each variation correctly. However again this would only be referring to the actual nectar mix, not an overall diet.

Food for thought..

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#501291 - 03/11/08 05:03 PM Re: Leadbeaters - confusion in a name [Re: Marz]
bdeese
Unregistered


Interesting!!!!!!!!!

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#501365 - 03/11/08 06:43 PM Re: Leadbeaters - confusion in a name [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Marz...BML is actually Bourbon's Modified Leadbeaters diet. And it is MORE than just the mix.

Yes, we know that leadbeaters is a artificial nectar mix...yes, we know it was for the leadbeater's possums originally...

If you look at the original leadbeaters possum mix, you will see WHY the "modified" versions were made here in the US. Mainly because some of the ingrediants are not available here.

Judie's BML is simply Judie's MODIFIED BML. She took Bourbon's Modified Leadbeater's mix and MODIFIED it yet again.

These are the two most commonly used forms of BML. What anyone else is claiming to be...well...yes, they need to give it their own names. But at this stage, I don't think anyone is going to call BML anything but BML. (unless it is Judie's BML)

I see more issues with the "HPW diet" being called that simply because it isn't the ONLY High Protien Wambaroo diet being used. Reep's diet also uses the Wambaroo High Protien Suppliment as part of the staple mix.

and for some of us...all facial tissues will always be "Kleenx".
_________________________
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But I'd of had to miss the dance


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#501405 - 03/11/08 07:17 PM Re: Leadbeaters - confusion in a name [Re: Dancing]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Dancing


and for some of us...all facial tissues will always be "Kleenx".


off_topic Hubby was sent to get Kleenex, he says 'but I thought you wanted the Puff's?' roflmao

I agree with you on the Leadbeater's T.
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#501566 - 03/11/08 09:23 PM Re: Leadbeaters - confusion in a name [Re: Dancing]
Marz Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 708
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Originally Posted By: Dancing
Marz...BML is actually Bourbon's Modified Leadbeaters diet. And it is MORE than just the mix.



When writing this this post, I wasn't actually referring to BML itself. It's acronym name alone distinguishes it from others(though it has had it's fair share of copies itself and still being called BML from those who have changed it). I was actually referring to the mentions of leadbeaters diet on the net, and people who say are feeding leadbeater's diet, and finding they are all feeding a different version of the nectar mix and some haven't even contained honey or eggs..two of the main ingredients. As to the rest of the diet, it's purely a hodge podge of different things. Honestly, it's all very confusing and imagine how that must appear to a newbie.

You must agree so many diets now have a "mix" portion of their diets including PML, HPW etc so it would be good to be able to seperate all these diets from each other in the future before they blend themselves into different variations.

Yes your mention that HPW is also going to be misleading in the future is quite true. People already refer to the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement as HPW even though its actually Wombaroo HPS. I myself have been caught in that trap when people have said HPW is fed in Australia but found out their were only referring to the powder not the actual diet. Also some people have already started making their own versions of "HPW" with less pollen, less honey etc. Soon there will be modified HPW etc etc.!!

Dancing, you have done the right thing and called your diet Reep's diet which makes it original and recognisable even though it may contain some ingredients of other diets, people will see it as yours. I think people should step away from the leadbeater's diet title as it really is not really valid and can be misleading. That is why I suggest different names to make it all more distinguishing. You aren't going to stop people from making their own modifications and whether any of these mods or in fact any of the diets, are good or otherwise is beside the point. It's being able to distinguish them which is the key.

If anyone is really interested in feeding a leadbeater's diet apart from the nectar mix, Des Hackett used to feed bread and tomatoes also as part of his leadbeater's regime!.He was no scientist or nutritionist and it wasn't until the zoo facilities manipulated the leadbeater mix and incorporated it with a full diet did it become healthy and and nutritious. Healesville Sanctuary last updated it's sugar glider diet incorporating the artificial nectar mix in 2006 so it is an ongoing thing.

My papertrail on glider diets leads back to the 1920's. We have certainly come a long way!!



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#501683 - 03/11/08 10:28 PM Re: Leadbeaters - confusion in a name [Re: Marz]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
If you guys have an issue with the name of diets....

CHANGE THEM. Good grief crazy, they arent written in blood anywhere and said you HAVE to use those names....

a name is just a name is just a name....people change theirs everyday, dont see why a diets name cant change.
ohwell
_________________________
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Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#501690 - 03/11/08 10:33 PM Re: Leadbeaters - confusion in a name [Re: Srlb]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Can I suggest the name Peggy's HPW ? smile
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#504817 - 03/15/08 03:57 PM Re: Leadbeaters - confusion in a name [Re: SugarBlossoms]
BlndGrl8 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 2262
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona!!
Originally Posted By: SugarBlossoms
Can I suggest the name Peggy's HPW ? smile


Lol I second that! clap
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heart Kristin
:glider: Sparkles &
Flower

mlove Loving Husband Christopher
angel Proverbs 3:5,6


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#504826 - 03/15/08 04:09 PM Re: Leadbeaters - confusion in a name [Re: BlndGrl8]
7glider7
Unregistered


Thanks for this post Marz.

I feed Leadbeaters as *part* of our diet here (it is the nectar portion of the diet, as you described). And actually, the only ingredient in the Leadbeater's that we DON'T have here (in the version of Leadbeaters that I have been given, anyways) is the high protein baby food cereal. The honey, egg, vitamins, minerals, etc. are quite easy to come by here.

I would LOVE to see the updated 2006 Healesville Sanctuary diet. There was just a post last night discussing how much fruit is included in the Healesville diet...I would love to see this if you have a version you can post.

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