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#503094 - 03/13/08 09:50 AM Need advice ASAP!!
WholeheartMom Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 250
Loc: Reading to my girls in Florida
I am fostering a breeding pair of suggies right now. While in my care, they had two female joeys come OOP. These joeys are now 16 days OOP. This is the second pair of joeys for this breeding pair.... however, they cannibalized one of their joeys from their first litter.

With the history of cannibalization, I have been diligent to watch over these joeys. Today I noticed their faces with numerous deep bite marks.... they don't look good at all. They weigh 18 and 22 grams.

Should I pull them from the parents and hand raise them? They seem very, very hungry right now almost frantic.

Please help ASAP! I have been breeding suggies for over two years now and this is the first time I have had any signs of rejection. Tell me what to do.....
_________________________
I am a homeschool mom to four girls and seven sugar gliders; an annoying ponderer of deep thoughts; a purposeful meanderer on walks and strolls; a prayerful wonderer and marveler; a friend to many small creatures, and an Undercover Agent for the Kingdom which cannot be shaken...Nice to meet you!

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#503110 - 03/13/08 09:59 AM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: WholeheartMom]
ozzi Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 3201
Loc: Sedona, AZ
I am not the expert here but I see no one else has posted back yet. I would get those joeys out of there and hand raise them. I do not remember the formula mix but it has to be on here somewhere. It has been so long since I hand raised mine I don't remember but it was easy to do when it came time to feed.
I hope they are going to be ok tant
Pat

I found this on feeding joeys. Hope it helps

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/69796#Post69796


Edited by ozzi (03/13/08 10:03 AM)
_________________________
Pat
You have not lived until you have done something for someone who can never repay you.....Unknown

Rest in Peace our little sweet friends that have crossed over the "Rainbow Bridge".
I miss you gangel Boo-Boo, Lucy, BJ, and Fivel gangel

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#503113 - 03/13/08 10:04 AM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: ozzi]
DianaJ
Unregistered


Check Suz's site - it has hand raising a joey. I'd also try and get ahold of Suz. I think she is an expert on this kind of thing.

http://www.suzsugargliders.com/handraisingajoey.htm


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#503116 - 03/13/08 10:10 AM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: ]
McGhee28
Unregistered


Please call Suz! She will know exactly what you need to do!

From Suz's profile:
For Rejected Joey OR Health Emergencies, you can contact me 24/7 at 440-953-0904 (home) OR 440-520-4799 (cell)

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#503129 - 03/13/08 10:29 AM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: ]
silverwolf Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1732
Loc: Utah
My advice is pull them now. I have hand raised joeys and my female just pushed them away she never bit But I know suz states that if the joeys are getting bitten then pull them right away. It is the tell tale sign that they are being rejected and you could end up with dead babies if you leave them.

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#503176 - 03/13/08 11:34 AM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: silverwolf]
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 5965
Loc: Northeast Indiana
Here's a link to Suz's website. Hope this helps & I'll keep you & your joeys in my prayers.

http://www.suzsugargliders.com/handraisingajoey.htm
_________________________
Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,
5 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry

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#503228 - 03/13/08 12:49 PM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: minkasmom]
WholeheartMom Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 250
Loc: Reading to my girls in Florida
Thank you all for your replies! I have pulled these two girls and they are currently in my bra.

I called Suz and she was great... I felt more confident now and I am going to go all out to try to get these two girls through.

Only thing is that these are not even my gliders... I am fostering them for someone whose husband suddenly passed away. They have been in my care for almost two months now and I am really becoming attached to them and it is going to be hard to give them up. Hand raising these little joeys is not going to make it any easier.
_________________________
I am a homeschool mom to four girls and seven sugar gliders; an annoying ponderer of deep thoughts; a purposeful meanderer on walks and strolls; a prayerful wonderer and marveler; a friend to many small creatures, and an Undercover Agent for the Kingdom which cannot be shaken...Nice to meet you!

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#503331 - 03/13/08 03:03 PM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: WholeheartMom]
ssdreamsicles Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 1871
Loc: kentucky
I have the formula for the milk if you dont have wambaroo

it is:
2 tablespoons Pedalight(apple or unflavored)
1/2 tsp glideraid
1/2 stp powder puppy milk.

Once they are 2 weeks add 1/tsp baby cereal to thicken a bit.
_________________________
cloud9Melissa
www.treasuredgliders.com


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#503828 - 03/14/08 06:43 AM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: ssdreamsicles]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
How are the joeys doing today? Please do call me again if you have any further questions or issues. You're doing a wonderful thing by taking care of these foster gliders for your friend during her time of grief heart You are right - it is going to be very hard to relinquish them back to her when it's time. Maybe you can make an arrangement where you'll be able to keep the joeys? dunno
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#503840 - 03/14/08 07:31 AM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: sugarglidersuz]
WholeheartMom Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 250
Loc: Reading to my girls in Florida
The joeys seem to be perking up! They are not as droopy as they were yesterday and they seem to be accepting the formula well. Their hydration status is greatly improved and I can tell they are filling out more. I have named them Faith and Hope... for obvious reasons!! grin

However, I weighed them and they weigh the same as yesterday, so I guess it is good that they haven't lost any weight, but I really hoped they would have gained a gram at least. dunno

I have some questions though, if you have the time:

1. How much weight should they be gaining a day?
2. How long should I stimulate the cloaca after a feeding?
3. How can I tell if they have urinated after stimulating the cloaca?
4. How often should I expect stools? They haven't had one yet.
5. Is it normal for them to "spit up" a little after a feeding?
6. The tank thermometer is reading only about 78 degrees. Should I remove a layer of towel from the heating pad?
7. Is cleaning the syringe/feeding catheter with soap and hot water after each feeding sufficient?

Thanks to everyone for helping me with them! They are little angels and I am definitely going to insist on keeping at least one of them, if not both. They are my babies and it would tear my heart out to give them up after spending so much time "mothering" them.


_________________________
I am a homeschool mom to four girls and seven sugar gliders; an annoying ponderer of deep thoughts; a purposeful meanderer on walks and strolls; a prayerful wonderer and marveler; a friend to many small creatures, and an Undercover Agent for the Kingdom which cannot be shaken...Nice to meet you!

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#503903 - 03/14/08 10:37 AM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: WholeheartMom]
silverwolf Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1732
Loc: Utah
Glad to hear the babies are doing better today that is great keep up the good work. Don't worry to much about them gaining right off my hand fed babies would only gain every two to three days but they always maintained the weight they gained.

1. I found that mine would gain about 2 grams every other day.

2. I usually did this jur just a minute or so till I saw them go if you watch closely you can see it. It will be easier to see the bigger they get at first its hard to tell because it soaks into the q-tip.

3. mine would have a stool about twice a day usually the more food they get the more they stools they have.

4. I never had any spit up after feeding so this one I am not sure. when I fed them I would watch for them to keep turning their head away that is how I knew they were full. Also keep an eye on their belly I had one that would eat until she could not walk so I had to watch that.

5. I cannot say about the tank I never used one. I always stuck a pouch in my shirt and that is where they stayed for the duration of time. If I could not be there I had someone else hold them while I did things like shower.

6. Yes I found that sufficient if you have a dishwasher you can run it through the dishwasher at least once a day.

Be prepared hand raising babies is hard because you get so attached to them they become so sweet I could not give them away either so don't worry it happens to all of us. In fact I learned to click to them through hand feeding they would make their little clicky sounds and I would click back after a while they act like they understand you.

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#503969 - 03/14/08 12:05 PM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: silverwolf]
WholeheartMom Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 250
Loc: Reading to my girls in Florida
Thank you so much for your advice Silverwolf!

One thing I think I am confused on, perhaps you and Suz can help....

I know that at 2-4 weeks they should be getting .5- 1.0 ml per feeding. Here is usually how my feedings go: They are hungry and eagerly accept the first .3ml, but then they will turn their head away and I usually have to keep a firm hold on them to get the rest of the feed down. Even with their heads held firm, they still fight it, so could they perhaps be full?

What I am wondering is, am I "force" feeding them, and should I perhaps not be so anal about getting the whole .5 ml down?

I really would feel better if I saw them urinate and stool as well. I am wondering if perhaps some plain pedialyte given between feedings would be a good idea (?) I know they were dehydrated yesterday, but they seem much better know.

Any thoughts on that?

As always, I am so grateful for your help.... Hope and Faith thank you as well!
_________________________
I am a homeschool mom to four girls and seven sugar gliders; an annoying ponderer of deep thoughts; a purposeful meanderer on walks and strolls; a prayerful wonderer and marveler; a friend to many small creatures, and an Undercover Agent for the Kingdom which cannot be shaken...Nice to meet you!

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#504264 - 03/14/08 05:34 PM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: WholeheartMom]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
they will not overeat, by turning their head away they're telling you they've had enough. If they don't eat the full amount at one time, you may have to offer smaller amounts at more frequent intervals.
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#504507 - 03/15/08 12:52 AM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: BeckiT]
silverwolf Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1732
Loc: Utah
Yes I would feed them less more often if needed. Also don't rush it there were times when it took me 30 minutes to feed just one. I know it is alot to handle but you will soon see it is well worth it. Also if they were dehydrated yesterday then you may not see them poop right off. Just keep rubbing the wet q-tip on their bottoms every feeding they will soon go I am sure. At first it was hard to tell if my baby was peeing because it all fit in the q-tip but soon you will see they will have alot to share lol.

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#504542 - 03/15/08 04:56 AM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: silverwolf]
WholeheartMom Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 250
Loc: Reading to my girls in Florida
Thanks guys! I am really getting the hang of this now. It usually takes me about 15 minutes to feed one glider and they seem to be really thriving.

Guess what? We have stools.... LOTS of stools! They both just needed a little nourishment in their systems to even produce any waste, thats what I think. I am also seeing a lot of urine as well.

One curious question... when I stimulate the cloaca, both of the girls will make a soft hissing/clicking noise. Is that normal or do you think they have a UTI?

Also, what is the best way to heat up the formula? I have been heating it by rolling it between my palms really fast allowing the friction to heat it up, but I think it is causing the cereal to float to the top of the syringe. This results in the formula in the first half of the syringe becoming very thin/watery and the second half is thick and gunky with cereal. Makes it hard to feed when you are trying to squirt a pasty mixture out.

Any better ideas for heating the formula?

_________________________
I am a homeschool mom to four girls and seven sugar gliders; an annoying ponderer of deep thoughts; a purposeful meanderer on walks and strolls; a prayerful wonderer and marveler; a friend to many small creatures, and an Undercover Agent for the Kingdom which cannot be shaken...Nice to meet you!

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#504578 - 03/15/08 08:23 AM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: WholeheartMom]
FaesMomma
Unregistered


hug2 You are doing a wonderful thing handraising these two little sweethearts. I tried to handraise one of my glider's babies but he sadly didn't make it. I learned a lot during those couple days though.

About the hissing/clicking noise: Mine did it too, I think its just a "hey that feels odd" kinda noise

I found the best way to warm the formula was to heat up a glass or small bowl of water (deep enough to come to the top of the syringe) to almost boiling and then dunk the syringe in that for a few minutes, testing to see when it was warm enough. It heated it fairly quickly and evenly.

hug2 Good luck, and if you have anymore questions, feel free to post or ask Suz, our resident Joey expert.

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#504657 - 03/15/08 11:06 AM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: ]
silverwolf Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1732
Loc: Utah
The hissing thing is normal mine did it also. I am so glad you are seeing progress with these little guys. I usually heated up some water and put the syringe in it to warm the formula. You have to watch it sometimes as the formula cools quickly but putting your container in hot water helps keep the formula warm for their feedings.

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#504709 - 03/15/08 01:23 PM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: silverwolf]
WholeheartMom Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 250
Loc: Reading to my girls in Florida
Thanks again! I did heat up a bowl of water and then placed the formula in it, and it worked beautifully!

I am getting concerned and I think perhaps I should lay off the scale a little bit. Faith has lost 2 grams... she is down to 16 gms. Hope is still 22 gms.

Both are urinating/stooling and eating every 2 hours, they are now up to 1.o ml as of the last three feedings. I don't know what else I can do... they are eating well and seem to be looking better, but it is truly going to break my heart if one of these gals doesn't make it.

I never knew how much I loved suggies until I had these sweeties to hand raise. They can truly steal your heart away in an instant when you become mama in every sense of the word and fulfill their every need.

I am going to take pictures of my beauties just in case things don't go well... I want to remember every precious second! Stay tuned to see my sweeties and prepare to say "AWWWWW!!!"
_________________________
I am a homeschool mom to four girls and seven sugar gliders; an annoying ponderer of deep thoughts; a purposeful meanderer on walks and strolls; a prayerful wonderer and marveler; a friend to many small creatures, and an Undercover Agent for the Kingdom which cannot be shaken...Nice to meet you!

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#506147 - 03/17/08 11:39 AM Re: Need advice ASAP!! [Re: WholeheartMom]
silverwolf Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1732
Loc: Utah
I had one that lost a little weight when hand feeding her just keep it up and she should come around ok. In fact most of my babies would not necessarily gain weight every day in most cases they would gain about every 2-3 days then hold there for a day or two. Also make sure you weight them at the same time everyday. If you don't then the results can be off because a hungry baby weighs different than a full one. Also as long as they are eating well things should go ok it sounds like they are getting the hang of eating. I didn't have much problem with mine eating they soon learned to be pigs about it and I would just let them have more if they wanted the turning of the head away is the biggest indicator that they are full. In fact they should soon learn to grab the syringe like a bottle it is so cute to watch. Your doing a great job so far keep up the good work.

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