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#519948 - 04/03/08 04:14 PM Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
See Part 1 here

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#519961 - 04/03/08 04:26 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: LSardou]
suggiemom
Unregistered


Yea, chances are you have not seen them at an Expo center before now. It's a new venue for them. They're raking in big bucks and able to afford the bigger venues now and they are specifically preying on women to make impulse buys while their husbands drag them around Home and Garden or Gun shows!!

These people are very charming and very smart. I hope you guys can get some great photos, but video or voice recordings are best. For like $25 you can get one of those tiny voice recorders that would fit just dandily in a hoodie pocket....LOL Gonna go get me one tomorrow I think.

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#519971 - 04/03/08 04:34 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: ]
bethanyg Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 326
Loc: Herkimer (Utica), New York
I want to see all of the pics and what-not...
_________________________
Bethany*me
Rick*Brother
Mom and Dad
The dogs Major and Admiral
The snake Matilda
Petrey my suggie boy and my little girl fuzzbutt Aurora
RIP Icarus :rbridge:

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#519987 - 04/03/08 04:49 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: bethanyg]
SuggieLuver4941
Unregistered


Oh dear.
These were the people I ran into here in kentucky at some outside fair. And they made me sick.
So evidently they travel. And this is just about exactly what they told me. I tried saying how they were wrong, but he started on this speech on how, "I've worked with them for years, and our sugar gliders are healthy and happy . . . "
And the sad part was people do buy it. The glider he was showing everyone couldn't have been 5 weeks old, and he was selling her. I couldn't believe it. They all had outfits with pockets all over. And each pocket held 2 gliders. I asked how many they sold, and he said that today they came with about 80 gliders, and only had like 16 or something.
It took alot to pull me away from there. But I haven't seen them since.

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#520278 - 04/04/08 06:35 AM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: ]
danigirl14
Unregistered


does anyone know how to find out when&where they will be in central fl ??

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#520295 - 04/04/08 07:34 AM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: ]
bethanyg Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 326
Loc: Herkimer (Utica), New York
You can probly e-mail them on their site
_________________________
Bethany*me
Rick*Brother
Mom and Dad
The dogs Major and Admiral
The snake Matilda
Petrey my suggie boy and my little girl fuzzbutt Aurora
RIP Icarus :rbridge:

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#520340 - 04/04/08 08:40 AM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: bethanyg]
Sabarika Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1712
Loc: nKY
My only issue with voice recording and video devices is that unless there is permission to record them, the evidence won't hold up. I think that's how it is.. if you try to use voice recording and the person had no knowledge of being recorded or no permission to record them it gets thrown out.

Not sure how pictures would work though..
I don't see them on the list for the May Raleigh Exotics expo.
_________________________
Sabarika
Photography
Cash :rtmo: cloud9 :rtmo: Xpense

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#520348 - 04/04/08 09:05 AM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: Sabarika]
Brittney
Unregistered


Good point, Sabrika. I think we should look into this - probably varies from state to state. However, I think about undercover type shows and even when the person doesn't give permission for them to release their face, they can still release the footage w/o permission. Would this also apply to voice recordings since there's no picture at all? Would it be different if you recorded with video w/o permission? Hmmmm...

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#520353 - 04/04/08 09:11 AM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: Sabarika]
danigirl14
Unregistered


i believe that if you had a good lawyer they would defend the voice recorders, cause if they knew of the recorders then their story would change.. besides if they are having groups of people around in a public fair, they know that people will have video cameras or anything else around..::shrugs:: i grew up with my dad always debating things with me on the law, but i am not a law student. I will ask my lawyer tomorrow.

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#520361 - 04/04/08 09:27 AM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: ]
gryphon214 Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 235
Loc: Ohio
Voice and video recordings could be used to put together a YouTube video expose about this company. Someone might need to talk to a lawyer about about how to do this legally. Maybe the press needs to be involved? I am really not sure dunno

Has anyone thought to contact Animal Planet and bring these issues to their attention? They seem to be endorsing (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets but if they knew about what was going on they might change their minds.

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#520384 - 04/04/08 10:01 AM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: gryphon214]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
We are trying to stop these people.
Read the following thread, it has the info on what is in process now with mill breeders.


Mill Breeder Project

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#520392 - 04/04/08 10:13 AM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: LSardou]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
There are so many things mill breeders do that make us cringe, because we love our babies.

However, things we think are horrible are not against the law. They can claim the joeys are whatever age they want to say. ONLY by getting supporting documentation from a vet can we stop these people.

Please! If you know someone who got a glider from them, PLEASE have them go the a vet ASAP after the purchase! We need vet documentation saying "This joey was pulled from its parents too soon."

Additionally, we need vet documentation that gliders are being sold sick. I know they've sold many with Giardia, and other illnesses.

We need documentation!
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#520413 - 04/04/08 10:56 AM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: ValkyrieMome]
thefotokat Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1360
Loc: Ft. Pierce, FL
Very well said, Alden. Laws don't always go along w/what's morally right. We all need to come together and pool our info. Having all the documentation in the world won't accomplish anything if it's not all put in one place. So many people have been working on this and struggling to fight against the mills alone....it's time to join forces. I know there have been folks working on collecting info that I don't know about and doing great jobs w/it, but collectively, we can accomplish so much more. We have to show them what the glider community is all about.
_________________________
Kate
SouthEast Sugar Gliders
SESG Rescue and Sanctuary
SECARES
Go To The Vet!!!

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#520419 - 04/04/08 11:05 AM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: ValkyrieMome]
DittoDuncan
Unregistered


I don't know how long this fair is in town, but could someone post an add warning people in the local newspaper or something? Maybe you could even get them to do a story. Also my local news station will check into stories like this to warn others and get answers.

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#520459 - 04/04/08 12:03 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: Sabarika]
sunbunny
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Sabarika
My only issue with voice recording and video devices is that unless there is permission to record them, the evidence won't hold up. I think that's how it is.. if you try to use voice recording and the person had no knowledge of being recorded or no permission to record them it gets thrown out.

Not sure how pictures would work though..
I don't see them on the list for the May Raleigh Exotics expo.


I'm thinking they might be at the Gun and Knife Show instead of the reptile show. It's the same weekend, just in a different building. I can't find a list of vendors, though.

Maybe we'll be lucky and they won't be in Raleigh at all.

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#520479 - 04/04/08 12:32 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: Sabarika]
7glider7
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Sabarika
My only issue with voice recording and video devices is that unless there is permission to record them, the evidence won't hold up. I think that's how it is.. if you try to use voice recording and the person had no knowledge of being recorded or no permission to record them it gets thrown out.


I think we should look into this before...I honestly don't know but I think that is incorrect...otherwise, how are police able to use voice recordings such as phone taps and things like that in court to bust drug dealers and things of that nature? There are many instances where recordings are used as evidence and the person didn't know they were being recorded. Maybe you need to be law enforcement to be able to do this dunno but also think about people who are caught on tape shoplifting and things of that nature...that can be used in court...why not voice recordings?

Again, I don't know, but it definitely SEEMS like this should be an option dunno and possibly a very powerful one.

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#520486 - 04/04/08 12:40 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: ]
suggiemom
Unregistered


If they're at a public venue then it should be public information, but I don't know the legalities. I think it's illegal to do a phone tap or to tape a phone conversation, but I would think it's a whole different ball game when it's a public venue.

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#520500 - 04/04/08 12:56 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: ]
gryphon214 Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 235
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: 7glider7
Originally Posted By: Sabarika
My only issue with voice recording and video devices is that unless there is permission to record them, the evidence won't hold up. I think that's how it is.. if you try to use voice recording and the person had no knowledge of being recorded or no permission to record them it gets thrown out.


I think we should look into this before...I honestly don't know but I think that is incorrect...otherwise, how are police able to use voice recordings such as phone taps and things like that in court to bust drug dealers and things of that nature? There are many instances where recordings are used as evidence and the person didn't know they were being recorded. Maybe you need to be law enforcement to be able to do this dunno but also think about people who are caught on tape shoplifting and things of that nature...that can be used in court...why not voice recordings?

Again, I don't know, but it definitely SEEMS like this should be an option dunno and possibly a very powerful one.


I believe they do this legally by getting a warrant to do so? Anyone here in law enforecement that might be able to shed some light on this? However, even if such tapes wouldn't hold up in court against these people they may help make a case to the ASPCA or the local humane society/humane law enforcement organization. Also, they should be able to be legally used by the media if anyone is successful in getting a local news channel or newspaper to do a story on (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets...I think?

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#520501 - 04/04/08 12:58 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: ]
Sabarika Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1712
Loc: nKY
Originally Posted By: 7glider7
There are many instances where recordings are used as evidence and the person didn't know they were being recorded. Maybe you need to be law enforcement to be able to do this dunno but also think about people who are caught on tape shoplifting and things of that nature...that can be used in court...why not voice recordings?

Again, I don't know, but it definitely SEEMS like this should be an option dunno and possibly a very powerful one.

I would love for someone to look into it. I think in public venues like malls there is a visible sign stating that there are security cameras on the premises, and many companies will state "this call is being recorded" beforehand. I do know what in some cases (specifics I don't have sorry) if you record/videotape someone doing something incriminating but without their permission it can be thrown out. *shrug* I've got no clue, sorry!!

I will definitely bring a camera since I know I can take photos during the expo, but I IMAGINE video/recordings wouldn't be so bad.. I've seen parents bring video cameras and whatnot to fairgrounds and stuff, who knows.
_________________________
Sabarika
Photography
Cash :rtmo: cloud9 :rtmo: Xpense

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#520514 - 04/04/08 01:13 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: Sabarika]
buttercup
Unregistered


I have a good friend who is a police officer. I am going to email and ask him about voice recordings and such. He will only be able to give me answers pertaining to Houston laws but once I get information on whether its legal or not to tape someone without their permission and use it in a court of law Ill pass it on...then we can check other cities and see if their laws are the same.

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#520569 - 04/04/08 02:20 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: ]
7glider7
Unregistered


Thanks buttercup thumb I would love to know because if this is legal to do, I think this would be a powerful tool. We're going to have to get SOME documentation, either auditory, videotape, or by expert vets/officials at the fairs that 1) they are selling babies way too young and 2) the babies are sick. (Of course there is a host of problems OTHER than that, but they can argue all of those points...I think it's going to be tougher for them to defend themselves if we document that their babies are simply far too young and sick).

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#520605 - 04/04/08 03:27 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: ]
Bubbles8i8 Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 11/22/07
Posts: 879
Loc: Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
Someone who has access to their family circle part of the website needs to print out the self medicating directions for the pepto and other nasty stuff. Screen shots would be great, too. That would be extremely easy and any vet in their right mind should be happy to write a statement documenting how detrimental those instructions could be to a glider.

Can any of you still access their site?
_________________________
Jenny tounge

Wife to Josh, Mom to Taylor heart

:glider: Coo & Chimera
:glider: Ruckus & Mayhem
:glider: Adonis & Persephone & Aphrodite
www.animalhobby.com

Taylor's Sailors
Cages, Toys, Wheels, Pouches, Treats

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#520700 - 04/04/08 05:42 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: Bubbles8i8]
suggiemom
Unregistered


Oh, we have emails from them detailing the peptol diagnosis.....

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#520705 - 04/04/08 05:50 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: ]
tigg1268
Unregistered


what about being interested in suggies and asking lots of ques and maybe asking them if you could tape the answers b/c your not going to remember everything or your gathering info for your hubby or friend and you want them to know it all too??

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#520709 - 04/04/08 05:56 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: ]
bethanyg Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 326
Loc: Herkimer (Utica), New York
I sent them an e-mail pretending not to know anything about suggies and asking them all kinds of questions about diet, cage, and everything... they havent emailed back
_________________________
Bethany*me
Rick*Brother
Mom and Dad
The dogs Major and Admiral
The snake Matilda
Petrey my suggie boy and my little girl fuzzbutt Aurora
RIP Icarus :rbridge:

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#521245 - 04/05/08 12:49 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: bethanyg]
buttercup
Unregistered


Ok I got an email back from my police officer friend...if we can PROVE they are lying to customers about the age these suggies are when sold then that is illegal. It's called fraud. And it is perfectly legal to record a conversation that YOU are part of, the other person does not have to be aware that they are being recorded and is perfectly admissable in court. If they are doing this over several state lines then it could be considered a federal crime.

Hope this helps some.


Edited by buttercup (04/05/08 12:50 PM)
Edit Reason: I spell bad when typing fast

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#521254 - 04/05/08 01:05 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: ]
bethanyg Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 326
Loc: Herkimer (Utica), New York
Thats good news and can be very useful
_________________________
Bethany*me
Rick*Brother
Mom and Dad
The dogs Major and Admiral
The snake Matilda
Petrey my suggie boy and my little girl fuzzbutt Aurora
RIP Icarus :rbridge:

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#521269 - 04/05/08 01:32 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: bethanyg]
myangelbear77 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 2258
Loc: Homestead, FL
Just a quick question but are all the (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets sellers the same or is it a franchise kind of deal?
_________________________
Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.


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#521488 - 04/05/08 08:08 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: myangelbear77]
suggiemom
Unregistered


Good question myangelbear77....The same person keeps popping up in lots of locations, a bald guy about 40 years old...he was here in SC and has been at other venues including one in FL, but I'm not sure of the others. This guy and another one that were at our fair last summer seem to make the rounds, but when I saw (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets again recently, it was the second guy and a teenage boy and not the bald guy.

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#521490 - 04/05/08 08:09 PM Re: Face to Face with Pocket Pets - Part 2 [Re: ]
suggiemom
Unregistered


Oh, and by the way....these people read GC....when you say you're going to send them an email and "pretend" something....uhm, they know it already....especially if you happen to have your email addy in your profile, etc.

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