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#522271 - 04/06/08 11:37 PM necrotic tail?
reject5grl
Unregistered


So my pair Batz and Beam have had some overgrooming problems. Batz would overgroom his head and Beam his tail. I switched em to BML and Batz fur grew back but not Beam's. Since the diet worked for Batz I thought maybe the fur was regrowing slowly. Now I think that assumption was prolly stupid. TT____TT
I just fed em awhile ago and noticed his tail was black. The middle of it only strangely enough, the tip is fine. I don't know if it's necrotic or just fur growing back. I'm so worried! I watched his movements and he acted his usual hyper self and was moving his tail around but maybe that's cause he's controlling it at the base? Ionno!
Please help, here are a few pics I tried to take, but they aren't coming out well cause my cam lately has been fringing the pics with a purple color.
Do I need to take him to the vet immediately?


Attachments
DSC00260rsz.JPG (94 downloads)
screen1.jpg (86 downloads)


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#522272 - 04/06/08 11:39 PM Re: necrotic tail? [Re: ]
Owndbymyfurballs Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 883
Loc: Kansas
I can't tell for sure from your pics, but it looks as though it's the black tip growing back. I *think* in the second pic I see the pink of his tail. Can you look past his fur and see if the tail is pink? If so...it's probably the hair growing back. As always, however, a vet check wouldn't hurt if you think it could be more. smile
_________________________
Becci
Owned By My Many Furballs And Loving It!
~Loving My Glider Crew Since 2004~

Anxiously Counting Down The Days To Daytonís Arrival (07-28-08). Only 1 More To Go!!

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#522276 - 04/06/08 11:51 PM Re: necrotic tail? [Re: Owndbymyfurballs]
reject5grl
Unregistered


I just checked, I think the skin itself is black. I've seen how it looks natural, pink and all and it looks nothing like that. Looking closely I think a majority of the tail skin is black and that the grey fur is covering it up. I'm not sure though, I keep second guessing myself! Like I checked the skin on the rest of his body and it's white, but I'm not sure if that's just more fur I'm looking at.
I'm so lost!

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#522278 - 04/06/08 11:57 PM Re: necrotic tail? [Re: ]
7glider7
Unregistered


Well...anything involving black rather than pink skin sounds very worrisome to me...I would definitely take your glider to the vet. How long has this hair loss been going on? Do you think this tail issue has been creeping up gradually or that it could be something more sudden?

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#522279 - 04/06/08 11:57 PM Re: necrotic tail? [Re: ]
Owndbymyfurballs Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 883
Loc: Kansas
If the actual skin is black...then it sounds as though the tissue is dying. I'd make a vet visit. While this isn't a "go to the vet right this second!" emergency, I wouldn't wait long as dying tissue can quickly spread. I'd suggest a vet visit tmr. Let us know how things go!
_________________________
Becci
Owned By My Many Furballs And Loving It!
~Loving My Glider Crew Since 2004~

Anxiously Counting Down The Days To Daytonís Arrival (07-28-08). Only 1 More To Go!!

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#522281 - 04/07/08 12:06 AM Re: necrotic tail? [Re: ]
reject5grl
Unregistered


It's been going on since the end of last year. I think it was gradually getting worse, till I switched the diet and then it just remained the same. Not losing fur but not growing it back either. I think he may have been overgrooming cause of boredom, he's extremely hyper. When I first got him, I had him in a small temp cage and he would do backflips in it in continuously cause he had so much energy.

I'm about to head out to a vet right now. Thanks for the advice!

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#522282 - 04/07/08 12:09 AM Re: necrotic tail? [Re: Owndbymyfurballs]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
A dying tail is also extremely painful; he needs to be in an e-collar to avoid SMing and needs to get to a vet very soon. If he is showing any pain symptoms (which is sounds like he may already be doing with the overgrooming) he needs to get to a vet ASAP for a tail amputation.

Be aware that even after an amputation, the end of the tail may continue to die, so you need to be very vigilant in watching how it heals and get him back in as soon as possible if the remaining tail starts to die off again. worried
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#522283 - 04/07/08 12:09 AM Re: necrotic tail? [Re: ]
Owndbymyfurballs Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 883
Loc: Kansas
I hope it goes well!

IF the tail is dying, it will need to be removed to prevent the dying tissue from spreading. I'd also make sure there is no infection. If there is...make sure you get Baytril. smile
_________________________
Becci
Owned By My Many Furballs And Loving It!
~Loving My Glider Crew Since 2004~

Anxiously Counting Down The Days To Daytonís Arrival (07-28-08). Only 1 More To Go!!

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#522284 - 04/07/08 12:12 AM Re: necrotic tail? [Re: Owndbymyfurballs]
Owndbymyfurballs Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 883
Loc: Kansas
Looks like we posted at the same time Gretchen. Lol.

I knew I was forgetting something. I didn't even think about the e-collar. Oy. I blame it on the fact that it's 1 am!
_________________________
Becci
Owned By My Many Furballs And Loving It!
~Loving My Glider Crew Since 2004~

Anxiously Counting Down The Days To Daytonís Arrival (07-28-08). Only 1 More To Go!!

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#522348 - 04/07/08 07:00 AM Re: necrotic tail? [Re: Owndbymyfurballs]
reject5grl
Unregistered


I was very disappointed with my vet visit last night.
First, they wouldn't let me observe the examination. I was in the waiting room for an hour, still waiting even after the exam was apparently over and she went to type up a report. They said they don't let people in because it makes the exam go slower, but c'mon, I was the only patient there, I don't think there was a rush, you know? So yeah, I have NO IDEA what procedures they did, like if they did a fecal smear, checked for infection, etc.
Anyway, so I'm there worried, and finally the doctor comes out and starts asking me questions about my glider I would think they should ask in the beginning, but eh. She told me to her it looks like hyper pigmentation, and that's why the skin is black. She says she doesn't think it's necrotic cause he can still move his tail around and it isn't cold to the touch. She wouldn't assure me this was it however, and said I should see my vet and get tests done. I don't think she was very experience with gliders, I don't know...
She said stuff like, it's not necessary to feed them fruit because they don't really eat that stuff in the wild. She said the diet I was feeding (BML) is not sufficient and they need more protein from a diet like leadbeaters (what? Do you know what BML stands for?). o_O She said that she'd recommend keeping my gliders in groups of five, that I shouldn't have only two, and include a female cause the males need to mate to help their hormones. I was like...huh? I'm second guessing myself cause I'm no expert at gliders but... is she full of it?
So yeah, I feel helpless still. I'm going to hopefully see a vet that actually treats gliders soon, not an emergency clinic, but this was the place I got from their answering machine. Boooo....
I feel ripped off.

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#522356 - 04/07/08 07:47 AM Re: necrotic tail? [Re: ]
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 11015
Loc: MA
I hope you can get him into a more qualified vet. I think she is full of it! Mating to help hormones??? Hello, has she ever heard of neutering? His diet is fine. I would definitely find another vet. That is definitely not normal what is going on with his tail. Black tissue is usually indicitive of necrotic tissue. And next time, you tell them 'your pet, your money, you want to be in the room!' I think she didn't want you to see how little she did know about them!!
_________________________
Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary

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#522360 - 04/07/08 08:02 AM Re: necrotic tail? [Re: pappy1264]
GliderLove Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 4801
Loc: SE Minnesota..
After reading about your vet visit I was like shock !! You have got to be kidding,she does not have a CLUE about gliders to be giving you such poor advice! I would have demanded to be in the room, that must have been very stressful for your glider. You need to call and ask if any fecals were done, you need to know what you paid for!

I would look for another vet for sure. When this issue started with the tail skin color did it start with a small spot and continue to grow? Generally pigmantation problems are visable at a very young age, but not always. If this was all necrotic which is what it looks like in a pic (I am not a vet and I am not saying it is) I would find it very hard that this hyper glider of yours has not begun to chew it off. Did his behavior begin after you started noticing this issue with the skin color? I am sorry, I feel you were ripped as well, I would really get a second opnion if I were you though. Good Luck, and keep us posted because now I am very curious!
_________________________
Cindy
Mom to
Jae, Ashton, Briannah, Nevaeh & Addy

& all my fuzzies!
Breeder of Leu's, Mosaics, wfb, and standard grey's.
Owner of www.MySugarAddiction.com

:rtmo: :leu:


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#522528 - 04/07/08 12:03 PM Re: necrotic tail? [Re: GliderLove]
reject5grl
Unregistered


I feel like crying. I don't know what to believe anymore.
I called the emergency vet to report a complaint to the manager, and she just said the doctor I dealed with has degrees in blah blah, is up to date with the latest information, but how do you know if you don't deal with exotics yourself? My cries fell upon deaf ears.
Then I called the vet I assume is experienced in gliders. I've never met him, but had an appointment in a few weeks for neutering upon recommendation from long time suggie owners. I told him about my experience and he didn't seem really apalled at all. He agreed that it is pigmentation from overgrooming the tail, which I think they're right, but I'm not sure, I mean the tail is moving fine so maybe it isn't dead. Anyway, he didn't say anything to refute her advice on fruit isn't necessary. Also I don't think he knew what BML was at all cause I told him what she said about it doesn't have enough protein and he said I should feed mealworms, boiled eggs, baby food (all part of the diet I'm feeding!) and then, this is what got me second guessing, he said a good source was some cat food.
I did a double take... I don't know what to believe, who to believe... I'm about to lose it.
The first lady badgered me about where I'm getting my facts from and I didn't have a better answer than the internet.
I feel lost. Help.

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#522558 - 04/07/08 12:50 PM Re: necrotic tail? [Re: ]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
Hyperpigmentation may be the cause of the black tail. My cat was overgrooming and the skin where she overgroomed (for quite a while) did turn black. BUT...there is still a problem, because you need to figure out WHY he is overgrooming. With my cat it was a pain issue and is now under control. I know it takes a long time to get there, but the glider thinks there is something wrong, so you and the vet need to try to figure out what that is. hug2

As far as vets and diets, unless they have a lot of experience and history of treating/researching, they are pretty useless when it comes to glider diets. The reason I say this, is that most 'glider' vets have read the diets (some old, some from other sources like the Australian zoos) and think those should work for us. The reality is, that in most of these diets they recommend using native plants and pollens and that is just not an option for a large majority of us, and following half of a diet is just never a good idea.

There are some diets that say fruit isn't needed, you can go either way with that, but your gliders should be on one of those diets if that is the way you are leaning, not just take the fruit away from a current diet.

As far as cat food is concerned, it is still used with a lot of gliders, BUT, the cat food used is not the stuff you can go out and buy at the local grocery, it is VERY high quality (and often for the large/exotic cat) cat food. People using Purina cat chow (or something similar) is a bad idea, but many of these gliders on the high quality food have done fine. I think we generally say "cat food bad" because many people that read that wouldn't go through the trouble to buy the right cat food and would just feed store bought (which would be very bad for a glider). worried
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#522561 - 04/07/08 12:52 PM Re: necrotic tail? [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
My advise would be to contact AngieH (she is in the Dallas area) and see if you can take your glider over for her to check for you. She is not a vet but has dealt with gliders for years and years and will be (from the sounds of it) better able (then the vet's you've talked to) to tell you if the tissue is healthy or necrotic. If necrotic, then you will need to have it amputated. Angie would be able to offer you advise though on which way to go. Also, Angie has several vets she takes her gliders too (her personal gliders and the rescues).

Those of us who have dealt with gliders with necrotic tissue can tell immediately if it is necrotic tissue we are looking at. It has a very destinctive appearance.


_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#522593 - 04/07/08 01:20 PM Re: necrotic tail? [Re: Dancing]
reject5grl
Unregistered


Thank you two for great responses. I see where they are coming from with their information, and understand why they're saying these things now. I started feeling like I was in the twilight zone for a bit, and doubting myself because I'm not vet, or even an expert, and I didn't really have credible references for all the info I get from here. By that I just mean, I can't say that I got this info from someone they'd respect like a scholar, just from a wonderful community of glider freaks. =b

Anyway, I'm gonna take your advice Dancing and call Angie sometime today and see if we can get in touch.
Thank you both.

If anyone can expand further on my dilemma, please keep it coming!

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