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#531185 - 04/18/08 04:11 AM Blind baby, need advice!
GregCranston1 Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 205
Loc: Mildura, Australia.
I desperately need some advice. This is a follow on from my previous post in 'bonding and Relations' about introducing twin males to twin females, see link: http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=520691

Unfortunately it turns out that one of the twin female babies that I was going to possibly be getting has been born blind. These twin girls have just left their mother in the past week, as they turned out to be a lot older than the breeder thought. Anyway, so my dilemma is, do I still get these 2, and what are the chances like for a blind glider? I cant just get the "healthy" sister alone, because then she would be lonely until they are ready to meet my males early next year, and the dynamics probably wouldn't work anyway. So it is either both of them, or neither of them. The breeder has already said the blind one looks a bit smaller than her sister, but apart from that seems lively and good.
So I guess I'm looking for advice from people who have had a blind glider and how that went. Also would this baby be able to live an ok life being blind? How much extra work would it be on my part? I know that sounds awful but I have to consider whether I would want to take that on. The other thing that needs considering is whether or not it would be appropriate for this blind female to be introduced to any males in the future? Would she have blind babies? Of course no-one can really answer that.
The breeder said that the options for this blind female if he keeps her is, she will either be put in his "geriatrics" aviary, or she will be taken to the vets and euthanased.

Ok, this post is too long already, look forward to your replies.


Edited by GregCranston1 (04/18/08 04:13 AM)
_________________________
Father of 6 Sugar Gliders (4 female, 2 male), 6 Inland Bearded Dragons (4 female, 2 male), 1 guinea pig (female), 1 female cat (DOB: 11/1/09), 1 female Sheltie dog (DOB: 5/13/10), 1 male Japanese Spitz dog (DOB: 7/4/11) and numerous goldfish.

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#531186 - 04/18/08 04:26 AM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: GregCranston1]
shelleriddle
Unregistered


Are you planning on neutering your males? I do not see a problem adopting the blind twin as long as she is not going to be bred. HTH

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#531190 - 04/18/08 04:47 AM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: ]
GregCranston1 Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 205
Loc: Mildura, Australia.
No, the reason I was getting these females originally was to start breeding sugar gliders. So if I decide on the colony approach, I will neuter one of my males, but definately not both. What would be your issue with the blind female breeding?
_________________________
Father of 6 Sugar Gliders (4 female, 2 male), 6 Inland Bearded Dragons (4 female, 2 male), 1 guinea pig (female), 1 female cat (DOB: 11/1/09), 1 female Sheltie dog (DOB: 5/13/10), 1 male Japanese Spitz dog (DOB: 7/4/11) and numerous goldfish.

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#531196 - 04/18/08 05:41 AM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: GregCranston1]
bdeese
Unregistered


I dunno....if i decided to get both pairs of twins i would neuter both males. Do you know what caused that little girls blindness? It could be something in her gentics which could possibly be passed down to the offspring.


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#531197 - 04/18/08 05:42 AM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: ]
bdeese
Unregistered


stacie Good I think has/had a blind baby you could talk to her about.

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#531210 - 04/18/08 06:32 AM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: GregCranston1]
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 11015
Loc: MA
My Pru is blind (from cataracts) and she does well (although I never move things around in her cage). She uses the other gliders for judging where things are and they make little sounds to each other as she is moving towards them (I try to make those noises when I am offering her a treat so she can find her way to me). She does just fine (I started her out in a smaller cage at first). She came to me older (about 5+ yrs old) but seems to have adjusted fine.

I would definitely never breed her (sadly, Pru was bred multiple times before she came here). I don't know what caused Pru's eye problems, as a good diet did not clear them. But otherwise, she is healthy as can be and seems to be a very happy (albeit cautious) little glider.

I would definitely not seperate her from her twin, as she needs her to help her find her way around.

Good luck!
_________________________
Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary

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#531219 - 04/18/08 06:54 AM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: pappy1264]
glidergrl1513 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 5725
Loc: Upstate NY
If you are set on breeding them, then do not get this female. I would advise against getting the other female as well.. in addition to the stress it would cause separating her from her sister for so long with no other gliders, it is possible that she may have underlying problems as well if the blindness is, in fact, genetic.

I sure hope she goes to the "geriatric" colony at least. shakehead Blind gliders can make awesome pets, just like gliders with full sight, how awful to think she would be killed just because she can't see.

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#531247 - 04/18/08 08:22 AM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: glidergrl1513]
peace
Unregistered


why on earth would you WANT to breed a blind any animal?


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#531296 - 04/18/08 10:07 AM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: ]
Chrissy Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 1010
Loc: Franklin, MA
I have a little guy that was born without his right eye. The vet said that since he was born that way, he will be fine since he doesn't know any different. I have never had a problem with him....he's a big, healthy boy, plays and gets around fine. As far as breeding..definitely not. He was neutered as soon as he was old enough, I took his mom out of my breeding trio(I didn't want to risk her having another joey like him even though she had about 10 normal joeys), and they live together happily.
_________________________
~Chrissy

A Cup of Sugar

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#531300 - 04/18/08 10:14 AM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: ]
cosmicwhispers
Unregistered


I have had a blind glider who was used for breeding she did not want to breed and was attacked twice really badly before the breeder decided not to try anymore. Blind gliders make wonderful pets. Leave all the toys in the same place and get some larger hammocks so if she falls she wont fall far and get hurt
. I would not breed her or seperate her form her sister it will most likely cause great stress on the glider/s. The blind glider will follow her sister and use her to guide her.
If breeding is what you are looking to do than I would suggest leaving this pair and look into another one. The sisters should stay together and not be bred so they can care for each other. The blind glider will have special needs and if you don't have the time for that I suggest you go against them and look for another pair.

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#531301 - 04/18/08 10:16 AM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: Chrissy]
Dawn
Unregistered


i have a boy that was born with 1 blind eye..he is perfectly fine.. i kept him with his brother for support & i hightly suggest you get them BOTH & take special care of that blind baby..she will be ok if she has her sister to rely on.. you cannot move anything around in the cage! a friend had a blind glider & he did well again with a buddy u just have to make sure not to move the food diashes & water bottle..they have to be in the exact same place all the time or he will get stressed...gl!


Edited by Dawn (04/18/08 10:17 AM)

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#531317 - 04/18/08 10:57 AM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: ]
Sabrina Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 1171
Loc: Never Never Land
I think you should get both of them, and let the 2 sisters be together, but not breed them. How awful that the breeder would put her asleep just because of that problem. We got a dog from an animal rescue that had been severly abused...including having a tow strap tied tightly around his neck to the point that his skin grew over the strap. He was found and luckily there was one vet that was willing to do the surgery to remove the strap. The animal rescue I got him from said that he would need a lot of work, he hates other dogs, if you got near him, he would cowar in fear and roll over, close his eyes and turn his head away because he was beat so badly. That was alomst 2 yaesr ago. Today, I can honestly say that getting him was the best thing that we have ever done. He is a great dog. He still has his days, and doesn't like other dogs, but he is the most loving, gentle, sweet-tempered dog and we would have done it 10 times over. Sorry to go on, but my point is, if you're just looking for an animal to breed and make money off of, that may not be the animal for you, BUT if you want an animal that tou can learn from, that you can help and give it a btter life, and an animal that will give you maybe one of the best experiences you've ever had, I would suggest getting her. If I were closer, I would. Good luck...
_________________________
Sabrina

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#531421 - 04/18/08 02:02 PM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: Sabrina]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
If the breeder is going to put the girl to sleep, then maybe you can convince her to give the girl to you for free? after all, it costs money to euthanize an animal. :\

Then, like Sabrina said, you could just not breed her or the sister and get a different female for the boy you won't be neutering.
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#531545 - 04/18/08 04:53 PM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: Guerita135]
GregCranston1 Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 205
Loc: Mildura, Australia.
Originally Posted By: Guerita135
If the breeder is going to put the girl to sleep, then maybe you can convince her to give the girl to you for free? after all, it costs money to euthanize an animal. :\

Then, like Sabrina said, you could just not breed her or the sister and get a different female for the boy you won't be neutering.
Yes, the breeder said I could get both of these sisters but the blind one would be free. I take everyone's point that I definately should not breed the blind one, but what would be wrong with breeding her sister? I really feel as though I should take the two of them, for one because I feel like I should save the blind one, but also because they would be gorgeous pets. But then again, my original intention was to start some breeding pairs or a colony, so if ya'll think I shouldn't even breed the healthy sister then it isn't going to arrive me at my intended outcome. But no, I am not just in the breeding concept for the money, I just really love handling and taming joeys and I have a huge passion for native Australian wildlife. If I was going to breed the healthy female, I would probably just put her with my intact male for a day or two when she is in heat and then take her away again and put her back with her sister, but I also realise that this could cause stress to the sisters (and the brothers for that matter) to be seperated, if only for a day or two.
Arghhh, I still don't know what to do.
_________________________
Father of 6 Sugar Gliders (4 female, 2 male), 6 Inland Bearded Dragons (4 female, 2 male), 1 guinea pig (female), 1 female cat (DOB: 11/1/09), 1 female Sheltie dog (DOB: 5/13/10), 1 male Japanese Spitz dog (DOB: 7/4/11) and numerous goldfish.

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#531547 - 04/18/08 05:01 PM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: GregCranston1]
bdeese
Unregistered


Are gliders illegal to own in Australia??
Just asking becuase I had heard without a permit they were.


They reason we are suggesting NOT to breed them in because we dont know what caused your babies blindness. What if it was passed down to their offspring and several of them turned out to be blind? Thats all we are trying to say.
No it wouldnot be wise to just pull the not blind sister out long enough to mate. It would stress all of the gliders out plus more than likely the joeys could be killed or rejected by mom or cannibalised by the jealous sister.


What i would do since you are insistent on breeding (IF you want to save these girls) would be to get these girls and leave them as a pair. I would find another pair of healthy females to put in with the males you are getting.

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#531548 - 04/18/08 05:01 PM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: GregCranston1]
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 11015
Loc: MA
That would stress them all out. You do not 'stud' out with gliders. You must do proper intros and then once together, you should not keep seperating them and then putting them back together. The fact you are thinking of doing that tells me you have not researched much about these animals and should rethink your whole plan. I am assuming these are normal greys? Have you looked around to see how many have greys that cannot find homes? I may get bashed for saying this, but it is how I see it.

These two girls need a loving home that will love them for them, not the money that can be made off them. JMHO.
_________________________
Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary

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#531556 - 04/18/08 05:16 PM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: ]
GregCranston1 Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 205
Loc: Mildura, Australia.
Originally Posted By: bdeese
Are gliders illegal to own in Australia??
Just asking becuase I had heard without a permit they were.
Gliders are illegal to keep in most states of Australia, put you can keep them with a licence in a few states, I am in one of those states, VIC, and they are somewhat common as pets (no-where near as common as in the U.S).
_________________________
Father of 6 Sugar Gliders (4 female, 2 male), 6 Inland Bearded Dragons (4 female, 2 male), 1 guinea pig (female), 1 female cat (DOB: 11/1/09), 1 female Sheltie dog (DOB: 5/13/10), 1 male Japanese Spitz dog (DOB: 7/4/11) and numerous goldfish.

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#531564 - 04/18/08 05:26 PM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: pappy1264]
GregCranston1 Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 205
Loc: Mildura, Australia.
Originally Posted By: pappy1264
That would stress them all out. You do not 'stud' out with gliders. You must do proper intros and then once together, you should not keep seperating them and then putting them back together. The fact you are thinking of doing that tells me you have not researched much about these animals and should rethink your whole plan. I am assuming these are normal greys? Have you looked around to see how many have greys that cannot find homes? I may get bashed for saying this, but it is how I see it.

These two girls need a loving home that will love them for them, not the money that can be made off them. JMHO.
Firstly I know about the slow intros and everything, and I definately would intend to do that. But I mentioned the "stud" concept without really thinking about it, and I understand why this probably wouldn't work. Also if there is any chance the blindness is genetic, then I probably shouldn't breed either of them.
Yes they are all normal greys, and I'm not even sure if there are any other colours in this part of Australia (or Australia as a whole), it would be cool if there were. The number of greys not able to find homes is not a problem in Australia, in fact I don't think there is really many (if any) at all looking for homes.
I may just do what someone else suggested and get these two as pets and maybe get another 2 females for my males later. I just feel as though I should save these cuties!
_________________________
Father of 6 Sugar Gliders (4 female, 2 male), 6 Inland Bearded Dragons (4 female, 2 male), 1 guinea pig (female), 1 female cat (DOB: 11/1/09), 1 female Sheltie dog (DOB: 5/13/10), 1 male Japanese Spitz dog (DOB: 7/4/11) and numerous goldfish.

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#531578 - 04/18/08 05:37 PM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: GregCranston1]
irony26
Unregistered


Oh, I wish you were closer, I would take her, poor thing!

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#531591 - 04/18/08 05:54 PM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: GregCranston1]
Usha77 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 4007
Loc: Greeley, CO
Originally Posted By: GregCranston1

I may just do what someone else suggested and get these two as pets and maybe get another 2 females for my males later. I just feel as though I should save these cuties!


That is definitely what I would do! Good Luck with whatever you decide and keep us posted! laugh
_________________________
Brenda
970-616-2872
mlove
Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa
And Nacho (dog)
RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas

mlove
Help us help gliders!

www.sugargroup.org







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#531631 - 04/18/08 07:36 PM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: Usha77]
Sabrina Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 1171
Loc: Never Never Land
I think you'd be making a great decision to keep these 2 together as pets and not breed them. I really wish you the best of luck and hope they bring you a lot of love.
_________________________
Sabrina

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#531770 - 04/18/08 10:20 PM Re: Blind baby, need advice! [Re: Sabrina]
Holly1221 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 2321
Loc: Maryland
just my .02 cents but even if you were to get these girls to breed, you'd have to wait at least a year b4 attemptin' intros to make sure they are old enough so as not to get raped, so why not get them anyway, and look for another set of girls, maybe a little bit older? i know if i was in this position i would scrap the breedin plan and take them to give them the best home possible
_________________________
Holly & Jeff heart
Misos Phoenix Keegan Knuckles // Asa Etienne Kyrian // Cheyenne Peyton Godiva

RIP my sweet gangel babies, mommy loves you!

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#533865 - 04/21/08 09:05 PM Re: Blind baby, need advice! Update [Re: Holly1221]
GregCranston1 Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 205
Loc: Mildura, Australia.
Just thought I'd provide an update that should please alot of you. I ended up buying both the twin females glider , the blind one and her healthy sister (I got the blind one for free) mlove They we're delivered this morning, they are about 8 weeks oop +/- 1 week. But they left their mother about a week and a half ago.
They were a bit crabby and bitey when I tried to transfer them to their cage, but I understand that is because they were stressed and I will give them some space now for the next 24 hours at least. Like the breeder had already told me, the blind one is noticeably smaller than her sister, but both look quite healthy otherwise. Also the bigger one has a big white tip on her tail which is a bonus(very cute) gangel .
I will definately NOT be breeding these two, and I will try and find another couple of females later in the year sometime for my breeding ideas if I do indeed intend to go ahead with it. dunno
I'm just so happy I was able to save this blind baby from possible euthanasia and also just really excited to have 2 new gorgeous little suggie additions to our family. Looking forward to trying to begin the bonding process with them starting in 24-48 hours time. hug2
I'd really like to sincerly thank everyone for your advice and help, I and my new babies really appreciate it. thumb Also any ideas for names would be really appreciated.
_________________________
Father of 6 Sugar Gliders (4 female, 2 male), 6 Inland Bearded Dragons (4 female, 2 male), 1 guinea pig (female), 1 female cat (DOB: 11/1/09), 1 female Sheltie dog (DOB: 5/13/10), 1 male Japanese Spitz dog (DOB: 7/4/11) and numerous goldfish.

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#533867 - 04/21/08 09:08 PM Re: Blind baby, need advice! Update [Re: GregCranston1]
Usha77 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 4007
Loc: Greeley, CO
Oh! Congratulations! I am so happy to hear these sweeties have got a loving home! laugh Don't forget pictures! wink
_________________________
Brenda
970-616-2872
mlove
Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa
And Nacho (dog)
RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas

mlove
Help us help gliders!

www.sugargroup.org







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#533873 - 04/21/08 09:14 PM Re: Blind baby, need advice! Update [Re: Usha77]
Holly1221 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 2321
Loc: Maryland
what a sweet, happy ending !! YAY ! i'm so glad you decided to take these needy little ones into your home. i agree with Brenda, we NEED pics asap after hearing about these girls ! and remember, we need updates OFTEN ! names ? hmmm. how about Artemis for the little blind girl since Artemis is the Goddess of the Moon and Athena for her sister who is her big "protector" ?
_________________________
Holly & Jeff heart
Misos Phoenix Keegan Knuckles // Asa Etienne Kyrian // Cheyenne Peyton Godiva

RIP my sweet gangel babies, mommy loves you!

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#533882 - 04/21/08 09:22 PM Re: Blind baby, need advice! Update [Re: Holly1221]
Holly1221 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 2321
Loc: Maryland
oops i forgot to add !:
Athena is the Goddess of Wisdom. which i think would be perfect, given her "situation" --i was going to suggest Apollo since he is the God of Light but you have twin females so not very appropriate.
_________________________
Holly & Jeff heart
Misos Phoenix Keegan Knuckles // Asa Etienne Kyrian // Cheyenne Peyton Godiva

RIP my sweet gangel babies, mommy loves you!

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#533888 - 04/21/08 09:25 PM Re: Blind baby, need advice! Update [Re: Holly1221]
GregCranston1 Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 205
Loc: Mildura, Australia.
Awesome name suggestions thanks, I just might use them!
_________________________
Father of 6 Sugar Gliders (4 female, 2 male), 6 Inland Bearded Dragons (4 female, 2 male), 1 guinea pig (female), 1 female cat (DOB: 11/1/09), 1 female Sheltie dog (DOB: 5/13/10), 1 male Japanese Spitz dog (DOB: 7/4/11) and numerous goldfish.

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#533949 - 04/21/08 10:27 PM Re: Blind baby, need advice! Update [Re: GregCranston1]
chrailee
Unregistered


awesome congrats on your new babies.

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#534822 - 04/23/08 05:11 AM Re: Blind baby, need advice! Update [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Greg,
You've made a very wise decision in getting these girls and deciding not to breed them smile For setting up their cage, you will need to make sure that everything is always placed in the exact same area of the cage and never switch up how the cage is arranged. That is so that the blind girl can always know exactly where she needs to go to get to her food, water, toys, etc. Slight changes can be made because she'll have her sister to "show" her where things are, but nothing drastic should ever be changed thumb I also suggest that you make a few No Sew Hammocks to place at intervals in the cage. These will act as safety nets in case she ever loses her footing and falls. I did that for my Pika who was blind in her later years - it helped tremendously!

You will be amazed at how active she will be in spite of her blindness. She will be able to climb and glide albeit more cautiously than her sighted sister smile I found that Pika would stop occassionally and sniff the air, then proceed forward again heart
We definitely want to see pix of your new girls when you get a chance smile And I'm soooooooo jealous that you have a White Tip!!!
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#542774 - 05/03/08 08:15 PM Re: Blind baby, need advice! Update [Re: sugarglidersuz]
GregCranston1 Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 205
Loc: Mildura, Australia.
Sorry it took me so long to finally post some pictures of my new baby girls, I left them for a while before I had 1 bathroom time, and then I've had 2 tent times with them, the most recent one I took these pictures. I did end up using Holly's name suggestions, so the blind one is called Artemis and her sister with the white tip is called Athena. Some of these pics make these babies look quite big, but they're actually tiny. And no, it wasn't the camera flash that made Art's eyes look like that, that is what they always look like. I hope this works ok, I've never posted pictures before on here.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/gregcranston/Athena1.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/gregcranston/Athena2.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/gregcranston/Athena3.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/gregcranston/Artemis1.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/gregcranston/Artemis2.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/gregcranston/Artemis3.jpg

Sorry about the quality of some.
The girls are still a bit nervous jump , especially the blind one, but they are coming along quite nicely, I can already handle them fine and they are just gorgeous! gangel cloud9
_________________________
Father of 6 Sugar Gliders (4 female, 2 male), 6 Inland Bearded Dragons (4 female, 2 male), 1 guinea pig (female), 1 female cat (DOB: 11/1/09), 1 female Sheltie dog (DOB: 5/13/10), 1 male Japanese Spitz dog (DOB: 7/4/11) and numerous goldfish.

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by kinn2388
08/16/17 09:43 AM
How could I help this glider?
by MomoShiva
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by maycstay
08/15/17 12:11 AM
Dear Crabby
by TwoDog
08/14/17 06:10 AM
Let's see your cages!
by Nanina_Bryan
08/13/17 10:11 PM
Black Beauty Male
by Srlb
08/13/17 12:02 PM
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