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#532041 - 04/19/08 11:59 AM Florida suggie owners...
Melissa2721
Unregistered


I'm not sure if this law is new or not, but I thought it was interesting...
The law requires cages to be 4'x4'x4' and that is just for 1 to 2 gliders...they require cages be even bigger if you have more than 2 gliders

You can find the info in the Florida Fish And Wildlife Conservation Commission Law and Code Manual.
I wish every state had this law !


Edited by Melissa2721 (04/19/08 04:44 PM)

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#532050 - 04/19/08 12:16 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
TWilson
Unregistered


The new cage size requirement laws were adopted in April 2007 but did not go into effect until January 1, 2008.

Cage requirements are 4' x 4' x 4' in Florida.

It is great to require cages to be bigger than the recommended but there is no way to get them outside to clean them unless you have double doors. Most doors, interior and exterior are only 3' wide.

This will create a problem for alot of people who can't get their cages outside for a good scrubbing down.


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#532053 - 04/19/08 12:24 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
DarkSpark
Unregistered


I'm glad my cages fit the bill... and they fit out the sliding glass door, too! laugh

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#532060 - 04/19/08 12:35 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
cosmicwhispers
Unregistered


my cages i jus clean in the shower
i have a 5x3x3 cage and i stick it in the showr and let the water soak it and spary it with eco(a cleaner i use at the shelter it kills just about everything and is animal friendly. Then i get a scrub brush and get to work haha mine fits out the door but it takes two people and most the time its just me here so i use the shower

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#532072 - 04/19/08 01:01 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
TWilson
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: cosmicwhispers
my cages i jus clean in the shower
i have a 5x3x3 cage and i stick it in the showr and let the water soak it and spary it with eco(a cleaner i use at the shelter it kills just about everything and is animal friendly. Then i get a scrub brush and get to work haha mine fits out the door but it takes two people and most the time its just me here so i use the shower


If your cage was the required size, it is tall enough but not wide enough, it would not fit through the bathroom door.
A 4'x4'x'4' is not going through an ordinary door. worried

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#532144 - 04/19/08 03:46 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
Mamikins
Unregistered


Where would you find a cage that size? Someone should post a link to where you can buy a cage that size. For those who live in Florida.


Edited by Mamikins (04/19/08 03:47 PM)

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#532182 - 04/19/08 04:44 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
TWilson
Unregistered


I made my cages out of PVC pipe and hardware cloth, well the hubby helped. smile

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#532187 - 04/19/08 04:57 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
Mamikins
Unregistered


I always wanted to make my own cage, but have no clue how and where to start LOL do you have instructions?

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#532206 - 04/19/08 05:33 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
blockamon Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 563
Loc: Lynchburg, VA
Big cages are great, but 4x4x4 for 1 or 2 gliders is kind of crazy.I personally think that the law is a bad idea for several reasons:

1) Florida already has problems with people releasing gliders because they bought them without knowing the full commitment. Now, they have to make room for a monster cage. I hope I'm wrong, but I forsee a lot of problems ahead.

2) Even if people do keep the gliders, how do you clean the cages effectively? They will either have to come apart or be cleaned in place. Anything that makes a cage hard to clean makes it more likely that it won't be cleaned often enough.

3) What are breeders and rescue organizations going to do? I doubt that they can afford either the cages or the room to take in multiple gliders.

All in all, I think the new law is going to make it a lot worse on gliders in Florida.

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#532382 - 04/19/08 10:18 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
Rhapsody
Unregistered


Ouch - that is a large cage for just two gliders...... I have the sturdy cage from Suncoast and it big enough for two gliders...... I could not image having to buy new cages if I was a breeder.

And - I agree..... what door will the cage fit thru? - not to many.

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#532419 - 04/19/08 11:03 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
Melissa2721
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Rhapsody
Ouch - that is a large cage for just two gliders...... I have the sturdy cage from Suncoast and it big enough for two gliders...... I could not image having to buy new cages if I was a breeder.

And - I agree..... what door will the cage fit thru? - not to many.


I am thrilled with this new law ! I had the Suncoast cage for my 2 gliders for about 2 months. Its a nice cage but I think it is too small for gliders.

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#532450 - 04/20/08 12:56 AM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
tigg1268
Unregistered


yea but many people didnt and dont even know about it... I never knew about it and I'm def goin to take my time getting a bigger cage... this hit in Jan and its almost may... they aren't doing anything to enforce it!


Edited by tigg1268 (04/20/08 04:50 AM)

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#532525 - 04/20/08 08:49 AM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
reeny Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 1945
Loc: Miami, Fl
I am pending my USDA license. I am waiting to see what happens. I just found out about this law change a week ago. I cleaned cages all day yesterday. I have cages similar to flight cages from Suncoast. I think they are great cages and a great size for two suggies. My husband and/or son still have to help me move them outside when I clean them. It is an all day project. I can't imagine trying to move and properly clean a 4x4x4 cage. I agree with blockamon it will make cleaning difficult. Anything that is difficult makes people avoid. I am very meticulous(sp)about my cages so if I do have to change the size of the cages, first of all it will be very expensive and secondly, make cleaning and moving them impossible.

I wonder if we in Florida unite and try to write a proposal to the Florida Fish and Wildlife if we could change the law back. If enough people get involved maybe we could do something.
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#532545 - 04/20/08 09:27 AM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: reeny]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
I just spent alot of time reading the entire thing. What I find interesting is its all based on outside enclosures but they make no exception for the controlled indoor environment we provide. And the only variables that can change ANY of their rules are varying differences like having a mote instead of a fence.

Very interesting. And some larger animals require smaller caging. I suppose due to the species diffrences. But read the animal just below the one for suggies on this page and tell me it doesn't sound more like suggies requirements? 4x3x3, that sounds more doable anyways in the average home. sounds actually like what I already have. At the very bottom is the exceptions which are many, and certainly on temporary circumstances like trips to the vet, etc.

http://myfwc.com/codebook/2006/68A_Freshwater_Fish_and_Wildlife.pdf
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#532557 - 04/20/08 09:41 AM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
samantha3212
Unregistered


Ya know - I kind of think this is a crazy law to have! Its great that they want the gliders to have the room, BUT - what about chewers? You cant really find a good cage that big, that wont cost a small fortune, so most people would have to build their own, or go with a rept. and if you have a chewer, a rept isnt an option. Seems to me that this law WILL cause more harm than good....

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#532564 - 04/20/08 09:57 AM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
RetroGliders
Unregistered


I don't agree with this law but I see where they are coming from. Gliders are meant to glide from tree to tree, but when they are in the cages most of us have, they can't glide like they should. So when they made this law maybe they were thinking if theses people want to have sugar gliders as pets then they should provide them with housing in which they can still do all the things they would in the wild.

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#532578 - 04/20/08 10:20 AM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
TWilson
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Melissa2721
Originally Posted By: Rhapsody
Ouch - that is a large cage for just two gliders...... I have the sturdy cage from Suncoast and it big enough for two gliders...... I could not image having to buy new cages if I was a breeder.

And - I agree..... what door will the cage fit thru? - not to many.


I am thrilled with this new law ! I had the Suncoast cage for my 2 gliders for about 2 months. Its a nice cage but I think it is too small for gliders.


Both of these posts have valid points, Rhapsody, you are correct, these size cages will not fit through a regular door, only double doors and will take a couple of people to carry it out. How many folks in Florida have double doors? Not me. The cage I built is 6' tall, 3'deep by 3'wide and I have to take the door off of the glider room to get it outside to clean it. It's a chore but the babies are worth it.

Melissa, I agree the recommended size to house 2 gliders is too small, however, this law will cause alot of problems here. If folks that can't provide or build cages this size or can't get them out their home to clean, we will have gliders turned loose, living in filth, living outside in the required size, or turned over to rescues which are now bursting at the seams here already.

Not a good senerio at all.

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#532600 - 04/20/08 10:48 AM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
I cant see either to find a more recent version that the 2006. Can anyone else?
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#532642 - 04/20/08 12:00 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
tigg1268
Unregistered


another point... if thats the law for the cage size then how come when (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets came to the fair in fl they were selling them in small cages that arent even the recommended size... i thought some1 said Florida Fish And Wildlife have to check out their booth b4 they start... so again im guessing unless you go to get your license or something not many people are going to abide by this law... i think if it was enforced yes it would cause prob but the fact that its not im sure many people will just ignore it...

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#532652 - 04/20/08 12:22 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Maybe that can be used an an angle to get them in trouble in the future.
**But if you read the exceptions at the bottom of the link it says the specific on exhibitions which I believe they fall under during selling and they only have to be cared for properly and fed, and given vet care if needed. I imagine alot would go into proving they are breaking those rules. But reporting them when a show is coming around would be good!

Another good thing to know is Florida has a "Lemon Law" that DOES cover animals for sale. All animals. And it specifically says you cannot sell sick animals, so in the (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets thread you can send in your vet records to the people working on it that would be a BIG help Im sure!

Like the new laws concerning the prices of rabies tags for fixed or non-fixed dogs/cats in PBC. They've raised the rates in an effort to get people to sterilize their animals to hopefully in turn decrease the numbers of unwanted strays. In theory I think it will help. But to those hobby breeders this will cause HUGE expenses to keep the small numbers of pairs of dogs/cats they have as breeders and keep them vaccinated too. They've put in place some incentives for the first pair to those people but any there after are BIG bucks. Now what I think is going to happen, are alot of people are STILL not going to get their animals fixed and now they are going to be running around not properly vaccinated as well because the centers that were supposed to be available to sterilize arenít set up yet... Go figure.

Both sides of the laws encourage people to do different things. In this case though with our suggies standard size single doors canít accommodate a cage that size. And I for one am NOT willing to keep my cages outside. Not to mention that I cannot because I live in an apartment. I could not if I wanted to get a 4x4x4 in and out unless it was collapsible.

So those with multiple cages of suggies, may opt to NOT get licensed because they simply cannot keep up with the codes on the cages. Breaking the laws, yes... But I can ALMOST understand why.


Edited by MatchMakerMagic (04/20/08 12:27 PM)
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#532656 - 04/20/08 12:31 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
tigg1268
Unregistered


well said!!!!

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#532659 - 04/20/08 12:42 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
reeny Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 1945
Loc: Miami, Fl
Someone here was at the fair and was watching (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets they said they didn't sell the cage here. Wonder if that was because they couldn't?
_________________________
Reeny
&
"The Flower Patch Gang"

Blossom & Buttercup
Bella & Bug
Mona & Poppy
Hannah & Lucas
Petunia & Payton
Petals
Fiona & Fiorello
Lili & Tulip & Krinkles

www.moonovermiamigliders.com





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#532662 - 04/20/08 12:44 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
RetroGliders
Unregistered


I couldn't agree more.

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#532670 - 04/20/08 12:59 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Last time I saw the (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets was sometime before Jan 2008 and they WERE selling the cage, hot rock, water bottle, baby together.

Maybe since this new thing has begun they have since stopped. Maybe its better that way. If people cant "one stop shop" so to speak maybe they will be less inclinded to purchase something they know little about.
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#532689 - 04/20/08 01:40 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
tigg1268
Unregistered


yea but i thought in Miami they were still selling the package... i think even in the tampa fair they were too... but who knows
Quote:
But if you read the exceptions at the bottom of the link it says the specific on exhibitions which I believe they fall under during selling and they only have to be cared for properly and fed, and given vet care if needed.


maybe they have their ways around it... but they def dont have the vet care or anything if babies are being sold sick

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#532709 - 04/20/08 01:56 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
ramrodxpress56
Unregistered


Yes (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets was still selling the package because thats how i got Rocky. I bought him in Mar '08, with the cage which is very small compared to this law. The small cage is the only one they sell in person and they say they have bigger cages on their website. Anybody think there is a chance at getting my money back for the cage? Also i have been searching on ebay for a new cage even before i found out about this law and wanted to know if wpic-trading is a good company to buy from.

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#532826 - 04/20/08 05:07 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
Rhapsody
Unregistered


Another Question to Ponder....... Who / What Company actually builds Glider Cages that are 4 x 4 x 4?

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#532844 - 04/20/08 05:36 PM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
I was wondering the same question, and even further, if we do find a good company, one with sturdy cages that stand up to urine and citrus, I would need ones that are collapsible...
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#534977 - 04/23/08 10:13 AM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
tigiris1721
Unregistered


The cages could be handmade for that size. And mayb with zip ties that allow enough wiggle room to be collapsable , but not enough where suggies can escape.
Well whoever is up next to be inspected let us in on the scoop, on whether or not the cage size that most of us have is ok.

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#536390 - 04/25/08 07:44 AM Re: Florida suggie owners... [Re: ]
Lilleethesugee
Unregistered


(PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets was at the State Fair in Tampa and I also got the kit (and a sick glider but that's another story). This was Feb 8, 2008 the cage is way way too small for the law. I took it to the BBB and they are trying to pursue a lawsuit so I guess I probably won't see my money back from them. They say that I am trying to extort money from them They really are crazy but I won't stop fighting.

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