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#534347 - 04/22/08 01:29 PM Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 5916
Loc: Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
First I want to say sorry to the mod as I didn't know if this should go in health, diet, or here since it is a multiple issue post so please put it where you fell it is most better severed. TY

Most people will say diet first and I would agree but what if you have a glider that you know has been on a good diet. How many OTHER things can be to lame when a glider gets sick.


There are a lot of questions I need answers to today. I fed mealies last night and Stormy choke on hers. She shook her head and dislodged it and seemed ok after that. I took every one a second mealie. When I fed Stormy her mealie she again choked on it. She hacked until she vomited. I took her in to the vet this morning in Nashville as the local vet here has only seen gliders about 12 times. Not the time to train a new one.

When I take a glider in to the vet all gliders in the cage go. SO I pack up the crew and off we go. When I get there he checks Stormy over and she peed on him (yay she didn’t do that the last 2 times I held her) SO he asked Stormy why she couldn’t give him a poo that was what he needed and I swear she poo’ed. He handed her back and went straight to the microscope with his treasure. I listen to the staff in the hall and this is taking some time. He has someone look at something more talking. He walks in the room ~on his way in he says to staff SAVE THAT SLIDE~ SO I ask that bad? What did you find? His reply was “I DON’T KNOW”. WHAT this is not what I wanted to hear. SO I told him we just took babies away from her 2 weeks ago. He asked how old they were ( weeks OK move on to diet.
What do you feed them?
I just changed the diet to HWP over the course of the last 2 months. I had to explain that to him. I was feeding BML but felt there were to many vita’s for the gliders. What else to you feed them? Frozen fruits and veggies, Yogurt drops, mealies, and pine nuts . I discussed the concern people are having with the grubco mealies as well.
Then he asked about the water.
Well water, with filtration system
Cage cleaning?
Car wash (possible recycled water never thought about THAT duhh)

So I ask do we need to do a C&S to find out what it is.
He said not yet. SO I ask what eh thinks and he shows me the slide. There are pic’s on the wall of some of the things he saw and he knew what those were but he showed me over 15 ITEMS on that one slide. I am thinking OMG. SO we go back in the room and talk some more. I said what do you think we need to do. He said there is no way she can have 15 parasites she would be dead let alone raise babies that long. SO we talk about the trip and look for things that may have caused her to get ill. Stress of taking the babies and the trip. Nothing more I can think of. He said well I think one of those looks like pollen. LIGHT BULB OVER MY HEAD GOES OFF. My jaw drops and I say I forgot the bee pollen in the diet I feed! Yes! we found a source of at least one of them strange circles. So, what next? He said well she needs flagil (sp) for sure but we need to get the pollen out of her system so we aren’t trying to treat for POLLEN thinking it is something else. SO now Stormy and her cage mates are at the vet for 2 days being given a controlled diet of the zookeeper (the soft stuff I think that is what it is called) and water. (sounds like glider jail to me but we have to do it)

Now here is where this has taken my little brain. If the pollen is going to affect a stool sample that much that the vets are not sure what they are looking at then what happens when those 2 days are crucial to saving a glider? Not that every day doesn’t count in this situation too but I know my glider really well. I spend a lot of time with them and I know what and when they get into stuff. Stormy looks great, she is bright, active, and very curios about what is going on around her just like always. Her coat looks great. Since on the HPW she has gained 10 grams that she dearly needed.

MY ruling because of all this is as of today my glider will not get bugs of any kind or bee pollen in their diet. I will be altering their diet a tad for my pregnant mom she will get CKN, scrambled eggs, and turkey, in addition to what they are getting now. Stormy has always been my smallest glider and I weigh them regularly to aid in my medical care of them. Had I not been there to see Stormy get sick this could have been something that got out of control. The vet is confident this is a recent situation or she would be much more ill. The bad news is every one is getting treaded for Tricanoma(sp) Jen would get that correct where is she  He feels that this came from water of fruit (I had gotten the cantaloupe that came out. I threw both of them away but I can not remember if I had fed the babies even once with it. I think I did the first night when I cut it fresh. I am glad I have my ER vet fund set aside and I am so glad I take my kid to get check ups every 6 months.


Attachments
004.JPG (107 downloads)
Description: this is my rendition of what I saw on the slide. The ones I can remember anyway. the one on the bottom right should look like feathers the bottom left rose petals.


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I heart & miss you HALEY

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#534358 - 04/22/08 01:43 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: cyndiekb]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
KB - I love your drawing. my imagination is going now wondering what all those things could be.

I know that there was a post on another board about pollen regularly being found in samples with gliders eating HPW. There was both round and football shaped pollen. Seems that this has come up numerous times in the recent past.

That's all I know about that. And, it turns out this was not help at all. Sorry.

I do hope your little ones are well very, very soon.
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#534381 - 04/22/08 02:17 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
Marz Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 708
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Just a quick comment here re bee pollen. The Healesville Sanctuary diet has bee pollen in it but only 5 granules per week per glider. Now several people have commented to me about the fact, the serving is so little that why bother feeding it at all. So far, from what I have found out, that is all the gliders actually need in terms of nutrition wise on that particular diet. It may seem minimal because it is only 5 granules per week but that is enough to provide an all round diet with the rest of the items on offer.

Maybe and only maybe, seeing the HPW diet appears to offer substansially more granules than that per serve, the gliders just aren't digesting (or aren't able to digest) the excess granules?? Food for thought anyway.


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#534386 - 04/22/08 02:23 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: Marz]
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 3224
Loc: North Fort Worth - TX
Could the pollen be showing up due to how long the pollen is blended when making the HPW? I've only had a few fecals done since feeding HPW and no dr mentioned seeing the pollen. So I'm wondering if they missed it, my gliders fully digested it or did I blend/puree it in the blender enough that makes it easy to digest?
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#534413 - 04/22/08 03:06 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: jacknsally]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
Cyn, I'm so sorry Stormy and her crew are having to go through this hug2 Just a thought, but while you were traveling, did you fill their water from anywhere? My gliders all get bottled water, and I always buy the same brand, that way I know that that's a consistent in their days.. I know sometimes change of water can cause issues dunno

Trichs (Trichamonas) are extremely hard to get rid of worried PK had a bout of this a out a year and a half ago, and it was a long battle! Let me see if I can find her threads about it..

Nancy, that's an interesting observation! I had CK in for a fecal on monday the 7th, and CK is Stormy's son, so had been with mom and on HPW (I assume?) until then, but his tests all came back clear.. I also had Stella in a week and a half ago, she's been on HPW since December, and no mention of pollen in her fecal, BUT, I had always used the powdered pollen and not the granules and I wonder if that has any impact on if it shows up or not dunno She goes back in on monday, and the last 2 batches of HPW I've made I used the granules, so if I remember, I'll ask when I'm there to see if that makes any difference at all dunno
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#534429 - 04/22/08 03:29 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: BeckiT]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
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#534432 - 04/22/08 03:30 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: BeckiT]
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 5916
Loc: Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
I can't think of using any new water with them. I took bottled water with me. I was wondering if it was stress from forgetting her wheel and having to go with out it for 4 days. Or maybe taking her babies away? I am lost and not having them here the next 2 days I am sure that feeling will get stronger. I could just cry
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I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
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#534446 - 04/22/08 03:45 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: cyndiekb]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
it may have just been all the stress combined was too much for her.. I wish I was there to give you a giant hug2 !
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#534452 - 04/22/08 03:52 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: BeckiT]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
I just want to send you a HUGE ((((hug)))) Cydie, I'm sorry your little ones are going thru this. I hope that things will clear up for them. I'm sure it's hard not having them home with you....try and find something to take your mind off things for a little while ok...... hug2

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#534606 - 04/22/08 07:17 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: LSardou]
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 5916
Loc: Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
Ok I just made plates for my crew and I cried when I started to make Stormy's cage a plate. I know she is ok so that is silly but gee I miss them already. I am wondering if I should have brought home the boys. I am not sure if I messed up leaving all 3 or if it is better for her.
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cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
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#534610 - 04/22/08 07:22 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: cyndiekb]
Slickable3 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 2262
Loc: Cortlandt Manor, NY
You did the right thing...she would have been so sad there by herself frown They can all comfort each other!!
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#534739 - 04/22/08 10:10 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: Slickable3]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3059
Loc: u.s.a.
i would take her home and try feed ing pml which is the same thing without the pollen. alternate that with a couple of days egg or chicken. and no vits at all. ive been doing this over 3 yrs now. i also use briskeysand breeders mix which is a hard crunchy food.

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#534770 - 04/22/08 11:25 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: the gliders angel]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
That is very BAD advise. You should NOT be mixing diets like that unless you are a nutritionalist and KNOW how to calculate for the different vitamins and minerals in each of the foods you are feeding.

CKB...Reep's diet is now in the diet links. You might want to take a look at it. There have been so many healthy gliders on this diet for several years now (almost as long as the HPW diet) and I've not heard from anyone having any problems with it. It has worked miracles with Reep and I have all healthy gliders and some very healthy joeys.
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#534777 - 04/23/08 12:02 AM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: Dancing]
7glider7
Unregistered


I want to know where you got the bee pollen powder from.

Is there a chance it could be contaminated?

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#534785 - 04/23/08 12:26 AM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: Marz]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
Originally Posted By: Marz
Maybe and only maybe, seeing the HPW diet appears to offer substansially more granules than that per serve, the gliders just aren't digesting (or aren't able to digest) the excess granules?? Food for thought anyway.


This was my first thought, that maybe because of the amount of pollen, it is coming through. dunno But as Becki said, other gliders on HPW haven't seen this that we know of. Ugh, I'm no help either, no idea. But I think you did the right thing by leaving them together too. And I am sending you lots of hugs and prayers that they can figure this out quickly and get her recovered soon! hug2 hug2 hug2
_________________________
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Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#534786 - 04/23/08 12:27 AM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: ]
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 5916
Loc: Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
I don't think it is problem from the pollen EXCEPT it is making determining what SHOULD be there and what SHOULDN't be there harder.

I would recommend taking in a glider poo and getting a slide and having a pic of what is normal put in the file. I would never have thought of it before but man I sure wish I had now. I have 10 and I'd pay to have it done for each one right now! The delay in a complete diagnosis is what is breaking my heart. Not to mention m babies being away from home.

I am so glad I used a travel cage with a JR stealth instead of the plastic carrier or day tripper like I had thought about doing. Also thank hubby for the van making cage travel easy smile

Steps we are taking here now are cage/toy/wheel cleaning with bleach before the kids get back from the vet. Changed the filters on the water system. tossed all mealies (learned a lot about those today I didn't know) So I am sure I will have to treat every glider. Gee wonder if I should use the reps till they are all cleared...

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cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
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#534790 - 04/23/08 12:36 AM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: cyndiekb]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
Originally Posted By: cyndiekb
tossed all mealies (learned a lot about those today I didn't know)


I would be interested to know what you learned about mealworms...
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Maia & Squish
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#534979 - 04/23/08 10:16 AM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: sugarlope]
TWilson
Unregistered


Cyndie, I am so sorry to hear your babies are ill. I know you are so upset and worried. Keeping you and your little ones in my thoughts and prayers. Please let me know if I can do anything for you, I'll be glad to help you in any way I can.
How are your little ones this morning?

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#534991 - 04/23/08 10:35 AM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: sugarlope]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13746
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
Originally Posted By: sugarlope
Originally Posted By: cyndiekb
tossed all mealies (learned a lot about those today I didn't know)


I would be interested to know what you learned about mealworms...


Me too!!!
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Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#535120 - 04/23/08 02:01 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: suggiemom1980]
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 5916
Loc: Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
I have talked with 2 other people who get there mealies from the same place I do. I was also told about a 3rd person having issues. The gliders are shutting down on them. Gliders that normally gobble up the mealies are taking one bite and spitting them out. Others who love them are flat refusing them. This with the fact that was what I had given Stormy right before she got sick makes me think there are some bad bad worms out there. This is all from 4 different states so location and environment should not be an issue. All of these people know how to handle the bug storage so the only thing I can come up with is something going on at the supplier. I am not willing to risk any of my gliders because I can't GARNETTE the safety of a bug so NO MORE BUGS AT ALL.
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cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
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#535126 - 04/23/08 02:08 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: cyndiekb]
TWilson
Unregistered


How are your babies today Cyndie?
Been thinking bout ya'll all day.

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#535133 - 04/23/08 02:15 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: ]
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 5916
Loc: Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
we are waiting on poop smile that was all they could really tell me...

He said they ate well and were doing ok so I should have them home tomorrow afternoon.

_________________________
cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
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#535194 - 04/23/08 03:40 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: cyndiekb]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
When I was doing "research" on crickets in 2001 and after I found out from many farms that I contacted as well as the Bell Institute, is that almost all of the crickets and worms come from the Delta Basin. And when they do not have proper drainage and control of their fields that can produce many different types of problems and the bugs become infected. This is mostly with crickets.

I stopped feeding any bugs a very long time ago. One of my gliders did the same thing Cyndie's did when I fed him a mealie. I had not fed anyone else yet, so I stopped there and threw them out. When I took them to my vet to look at under the scope and my Husband looked at them under his they were really sick mealies.

With the weather being what it has been this year in the Delta Basin, I would be very careful and find out where the farm is. I know you can order from California and places out west. Don't remember the names of the farms there.

There are threads on here about what I went through in 2001. I lost 8 gliders in a week due to crickets and Aflatoxin that
that affected the crickets.
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#535214 - 04/23/08 04:00 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: Ellen]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
Cydie, May I ask what company your ordering your mealies from?
How are your little ones today? I hope they are doing better! hug2

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#535306 - 04/23/08 05:33 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: LSardou]
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 5916
Loc: Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
mine are from grubco
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cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx

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#535311 - 04/23/08 05:40 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: cyndiekb]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
Thank you!

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#535313 - 04/23/08 05:42 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: cyndiekb]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13746
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
I've noticed there have been times when my babies refused to eat their mealies. I'm joining the No More Bugs campaign!
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812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#535392 - 04/23/08 07:56 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: suggiemom1980]
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 11015
Loc: MA
I hope all your babies will be ok. I have been feeding Grubco worms with no issues. My babies are all due (in May) for their yearly check ups, but have not had any issues. I will see what their fecals show.
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#535462 - 04/23/08 10:00 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: pappy1264]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
hug2 Hope the results came back more readable this time. hug2
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Maia & Squish
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#536042 - 04/24/08 05:07 PM Re: Does Sick Glider=bad bugs/diet [Re: sugarlope]
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 5916
Loc: Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
OK we are back from the vet.

After 2 days with out the bee pollen the only thing showing up in the stool is the Tric and he also found fluke (in the tapeworm family) I asked now that we know WHAT we have can we determine how she got it. He said the fluke is found in birdseed and he has seen a big increase of these in the last year and a half. He said this is however the first time he has seen a sugar glider with it. He has been a vet 20 years. He has gone to a aviary conference and this topic was discussed. May vets don’t think it is an issue. It is more common in Cockatiels and (crud I just forgot the other bird). SO I said ok the pollen is not the source then. He said it can be. I said that was ok I had decided I was not going to keep using it. He said why just freeze it for 2 weeks before you used it. OK So I asked about the mealies. He said anytime you are feeding live bugs it is only a matter of time before you come across a contamination. I already knew those were outta here period!

So here is the treatment

flagyl susp. one time a day…I thought this was a low dose seems last time we gave it 2 times a day. (that was giardia ~ swims like a barrel rolling~ the tric swims like a tad pole)

for the fluke we have quest one time. (this is the stuff I worm the horses with) I am a little leery about this one. It is about 1 drop but he said if you give them to much it will make the act like that has head trauma. Since he doesn’t know how Stormy will react he said to give it to just 1 glider till we know. So I am thinking I have to pick a glider?!?!? Well he did that for me he said Stormy since she is the one sick. I will wait till Tuesday to give this to her and he said that was a good idea since I am going to VA tomorrow till Sunday night and the dentist Monday. I want to have her on me 24/7 so I know what is going on once she gets this med.

I am not sure if we have really learned anything yet but I know Peggy is working with her vet on this as well.

Oh I almost for got we did get one more diagnosis. This was a condition that just about sent James into hysteria. He came straight home and told the family it was official now.

Dr Corwin said “Those are some pretty spoiled gilders!”
shock


Edited by BeckiT (04/24/08 08:01 PM)
Edit Reason: removed med dosages
_________________________
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I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
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29 posts in the last 24hrs
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Max Online: 478 @ 07/15/07 01:24 AM
Last 10 New Topics
Twitchy tale movements
by FinFiFuFe
Today at 12:29 AM
Looking for vet recommendation, Atlanta
by Jen_faith
Yesterday at 08:40 PM
First time glider owner looking for wisdom
by
Yesterday at 03:36 PM
Older Male/Joey Female or Older Female?
by
Yesterday at 10:01 AM
Cold snap!
by Ladymagyver
Yesterday at 12:51 AM
Bringing Home Your Baby
by Amanda159
10/18/17 06:42 PM
Bedding
by Amanda159
10/18/17 05:53 PM
Male Glider penis problem
by Jen_faith
10/18/17 04:58 PM
Little Roxie
by kidqwik
10/17/17 06:57 PM
Is newspaper safe?
by Glamper
10/17/17 06:39 PM
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