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#54865 - 08/19/05 08:58 AM Death sometimes is a good thing
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, I had my vet put down my female glider on wed night, the glider was used a heavy breeder before I adopted her, and she was at least 12 if not 13 years old....

My question: the male, is now 10 years old or 11, the previoius owner really could only give me a guess as to their age

Living with him is a 3 year old daughter which I hand raised...

Question: what is the a given percent chance that papa will breed with daughter? Now that his mate is gone, is he likely to turn his attention to his daughter????

I suppose my vet who lives next door, whom I also work for is a blessing as she specializes in Birds and exotic animals, I could if need be have the male nuetered, but I really dont want to do that has he is a very scary animal to handle <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> hes fine taking food out of my hand, but to litterly pick him Im going to need those gloves that people use to handle hawks and eagles <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Tom

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#54866 - 08/19/05 09:03 AM Re: Death sometimes is a good thing [Re: ]
Keyosmama Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 2175
Loc: Ontario , Canada
Yes. He should be neutered even if he's scary. Unfortunately he will try and mate with her if you dont either seperate or neuter.... I am surprised if they've been together so long that he hasnt already..... Without the mother he is more likely to now though...
_________________________
Amanda, Jeff&

A Pomchi named Wickett
A Yorkie named Meeya
A Great Dane named Berlyn
5 Cats Kamorah, Aiko, Mo, Peekaboo, & Alice
Someday Ill have more suggies... frown
2 skin kids - Xander Finlay James March6 2010, and Rohan Kingsley July 5 2011


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#54867 - 08/19/05 09:06 AM Re: Death sometimes is a good thing [Re: ]
Xglider Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 11157
Loc: Tampa, FL
I am sorry for your loss…

As for Pappa with his daughter from what I have read I am surprised you have not had a problem before… I have not bread so I am in no way an expert but from educating myself I have come to the understanding that gliders are rather prolific and un-neutered males will try to mate with any available female ….
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* ~ * John * ~ * Sorry store is closed at this time.. <br>
Link -> ~~ XtremeGlider ~~ Home of the original Re~set Toys! ~~ <br>
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glider family and think of my friends often!!!

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#54868 - 08/19/05 09:08 AM Re: Death sometimes is a good thing [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I thought to myself it odd that she has not already gotten pregnant ... my concern now is that she just might...and I would really hate to seprate them as they already seem depressed they keep looking for the female....but the good thing is that they are eating...and I still find myself feeding for 3 not 2....

I will have to ask my boss/vet/neighbor what she thinks, and if shes willing to do the procedure....

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#54869 - 08/19/05 09:15 AM Re: Death sometimes is a good thing [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree with the above posts. I'm surprised he hasn't mated with his daughter already. If you're looking for a percent chance of him mating with her, I'd probably put it in the high 90's, but I would have said the same thing before mom died, and it apparently didn't happen. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

To get him to the vet, just hang a nice secure bonding pouch in the cage as his only option to bed down in, and once he's asleep, move the pouch to a travel cage. If your vet is an exotics specialist and has experience with suggies, I'm sure she will be able to handle him. Especially after handling some big parrots with their bolt-clipper-beaks, I wouldn't think a little suggie would scare her, even a <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />

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#54870 - 08/19/05 09:16 AM Re: Death sometimes is a good thing [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for the kind words,

And I certainly dont mean to come across cold hearted, but I have also felt that when ones time is done here than its time to move on.....

The death of Harriet/Mama...was a comforting thing for me, as I knew she was not comfortable....and I know I did the right thing by having my vet put her down.

I did not want to have her seizure through the night... as I know that she led a very hard life before I got her, and I gave her a very peacful existance while I had her...I felt that it was just a responsibility to keep her happy as possible with out having to be a breeder.....

This has been a tough month for deaths here in this house hold as we lost 1 cat of 18 years, 1 glider and 1 fish...so hopefully we are done with death here

Tom

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#54871 - 08/19/05 10:05 AM Re: Death sometimes is a good thing [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


How long has it been since your pair had produced joeys? Gliders, like all mamals become less able to produce with age. If that little girl was their last joey, there is a chance that your male may be unable to produce already. Considering that his daughter has never gotten prego, I would guess that to be very likely possibilty.

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#54872 - 08/19/05 03:41 PM Re: Death sometimes is a good thing [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


the last joey was born on September 2004, so I was surprised that my now deceased glider who was about 12 was able to produce so long into your life, its only been just over a year since she had a baby, My Male is only 9 years maybe 10 years old.....

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#54873 - 08/19/05 07:23 PM Re: Death sometimes is a good thing [Re: ]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3059
Loc: u.s.a.
what u can do is put another female in with the male so u dont have to neuter him also. just curious as to what diet they ate for so many yrs. do u want to sell the joey thats a yr old?

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#54874 - 08/19/05 08:48 PM Re: Death sometimes is a good thing [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The two parents I call mama and papa ,Harriet and Ozzie, were on a diet of cat food when I got them...after coming here to this web site, I realized and with a help of a moderator, helped me switch them over to BML - the gliders had a hard time switching over, so I had to adapt the formula so that they would eat it - the formula I use now is 80% BML - and I make up for the rest by supplementing yogurts plain or flavored in a treat dish, along with fresh fruits -- they love grapes, apples, nectorines, mangos, pineapples, watermellon,carrots, brocholli, peas, greenbeans, and I also give them meal worms 2-3x a week so their diet has improved since I got them and they are eating, and my vet says that they are in great shape....if a little over weight....

The babies that they had...

Adoni was 6 months old and was I adopted him out to a couple that I knew from the store that I worked at...they adore him and get a great deal of enjoyment from him and he is doing quite well... I adopted him out because mama had a baby joey...long story short mama escaped and I had to hand raise the baby by hand....but I got mama back....that baby is now 3 years old and her name is Bindi

Allira came along and quite unexpectantly and I gave her to the same couple that had Adoni...so I have no baby joeys at all... I have the orginal Male that I adopted who was on a cat food diet, I have Bindi who has been on BML (although modified) since day one...and Mama was put down this past Wed night...

I have had the day to think this through, and I know that older animals do not deal with with anesthesia...so I have decided not to get the male nuetered ... he is 10 years old and I would be afraid that he would not survive, and why put him under anymore stress...hes in great health but I do not want to risk loosing him while under the knife...(so yes I have a sticky situation)

I do not have the room for another cage, I have a 55gallon marine tank, 1 african grey parrot, 1 cockatiel so room for another cage is just out of the question.

I know that inbreeding can cause an issue...however after talking to my vet...as long as ... and this is a BIG IF, cause I am not even sure papa is wanting to breed anymore...although I did see him with an erection the other night....

So if there are babies to come, I figure that the chance of a malformation is very low...I just know that I would not want the babies themselves to breed back to the parents...I know this is bad husbandry, and I am in no way advocating this type of breeding...I am NOT and NEVER WILL be a glider breeder...thats not the type of owner I am nor was nor will be.......and if any were to be born with a issue...they would be extremely well cared for as the vet that I work for and treats all my animals will assist me in any issues that arrise, and there fore none of the babies would be put up for adoption unless I knew by the vet that they are 100% OK...

Therefore...if I do have any babies that are completely healthy....all babies will be avail for adoption at no fee to whom I feel is qualified to take care of them. (local pick up ONLY or meet somewhere) I am sure the moderators here could assit me if I asked them too.

If you or anyone else reading this thread has suggestions or concerns please let me know....right now I am dealing with two very depressed gliders, they seem to be confused and not very sure of whats going on...they know somethings wrong, they eat I know that...so thats good...they just dont seem to be coming out of their nest box (chincilla dust bath), but the food is gone by morning...so thats a good thing....

I hope you all understand that my concerns, comments are genuine, and that I am real with what I say...I am certainly not a irrisponsible owner of these precious exotic animals, and I believe that I have done the best that I could for all of them, including Mama....

Tom

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#54875 - 08/19/05 09:54 PM Re: Death sometimes is a good thing [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


It certainly sounds like you've done the best you can and I'm sure they have a good home. I'm probably the only one here who is NOT surprised that your male has not bred with his daughter already. My family group was as large as 17 at one time and the dominant male and female are the only two who bred. I believe it when they say gliders mate for life.
I do think that the male will now breed with his daughter as soon as he figures out what's happened and that his mate is not coming back. I'm not convinced their will be anything wrong with the joey's, if it happens, but you never know.
There are some very safe anesthetics (local) that can be used if you decide to have him neutered. Mine never needed pain meds after, and was completely happy when put back with his family. His dominance changed and it was then the younger males tried taking his place. (I'm wandering!) Point is, You have probably made the right choice. If there is a joey, and it has problems, then you can neuter him afterwards. There are probably those who think that is irresponsible, but considering his age I think it is reasonable to wait and see. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />

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#54876 - 08/20/05 10:00 AM Re: Death sometimes is a good thing [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for the support in my decision.

I realize that there are pros and cons to my decision, but I believe that what ever decision one chooses must be one that is right for them.

Again, I am certainly no advocate of breeding animals, be it fish, birds, dogs, cats, etc... back from siblings to parents...I have an extensive knowledge of biology and anatomy and physiology, so I know what the risks can be..

I am about responsible care taker-ship, as I dont really own an animal as much as I must look out for them...

I know that everyone here has contributed something to the decision I have made... I know some really disagree and some understand...

I think I will just leave things as they are, and if a joey comes along than I will deal with each of them on an individual basis ... Like I said before, I can only handle 3 gliders at a time, so the big IF is that if there are more, I am going to adopt them out using this forum to those who I know via the help of a the moderators to adopt them out ...

Thanks so much

Tom

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#54877 - 08/21/05 02:06 PM Re: Death sometimes is a good thing [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Tom,
I'm a little late here, but as soon as I read the age of your guy, I wondered if *I* would have him neutered... because of the stress of masking him down, and his age. Anyway, there might be another solution. I understand that if you use Elimina on gliders food (to decrease their odor), that it interferes with breeding because the scent is so important in breeding. Perhaps this might be a solution. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me (please do).

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#54878 - 08/21/05 06:36 PM Re: Death sometimes is a good thing [Re: ]
Badgersmommy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1382
Loc: Kentucky
No arguements here...:) Personally, I just couldn't have him neutered if he were mine. Peggy, I'd be interested in knowing about that too!
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Glider Kids - Badger and Bonnie, Pepsi and Grace, Victoria.. ahem..I mean ummm..Victor! and Isabella <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#54879 - 08/22/05 06:38 AM Re: Death sometimes is a good thing [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Good Morning, well it is here anyway 7:30am and the African Grey woke me up...Aarrghh hehehe

Anyway, I had been told that gliders are a bit of an odor producing factory...but since I clean the cage 2 days a week and replace bedding every 2 weeks and wash their little ceramic hut out once a 3 times a week, I really do not have an odor problem that I can smell <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#54880 - 08/22/05 06:40 AM Re: Death sometimes is a good thing [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I will have to talk to my vet when I see her next...seewhat she thinks....about neutering a 10 year old male glider..

T

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#54881 - 08/23/05 10:01 AM Re: Death sometimes is a good thing [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, an update...

I walked in to check on the gliders, I have a ferret sling, that they like to play in suspended from the top of the cage...well Papa was ontop of his daughter...in a compromising position I might add, but that does not mean what I think it means as I have no way to prove that anything happened...but I think its going to happen,

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