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#549607 - 05/13/08 09:18 AM Why do we cook it?
Sherri Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/02/06
Posts: 3826
Loc: Big Sandy TN
There are some occasions when I'm either to lazy to make a new batch of BML or run to the store to get what I need for BML. And my babies will either get chicken or scrambled eggs that night. And I have no idea why I have waited this long before asking. I guess I just never thought about it before last night. (when it was one of those nights that they got scrambled eggs) But why do we cook the eggs and the chicken? They dont cook the eggs or the little birdies they eat in the wild. So why do we? I ask because my babies arent real fond of scrambled eggs. And I was thinking that the next time I would try raw eggs instead. But thought I would ask everyones opinion first.
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My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


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#549619 - 05/13/08 09:32 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: Sherri]
bluekitti01
Unregistered


Well I can see cookin the chicken....Salmanella (sp? lol) and all but eggs.....hmm......I'd kinda like to knoww the answer to that too cause mine don't like eggs (cooked anyway) either and I know other animals can eat raw eggs.....good question. Anybody know or have any insight? LOL

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#549620 - 05/13/08 09:32 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: Sherri]
Rhapsody
Unregistered


IMO - we cooked chicken & eggs due the added chemicals and hormones farmers put in the feed of the chicken.... therefore, by cooking the food we destroy all that is unnatural (man made) in the food - unlike that of natural healthy food that is found and created with in nature.... no extras.

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#549624 - 05/13/08 09:41 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: ]
Sherri Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/02/06
Posts: 3826
Loc: Big Sandy TN
I understand cooking the chicken. I mean lets face it, RAW chicken is scary! But the egg?
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sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html

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#549626 - 05/13/08 09:44 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: Sherri]
bluekitti01
Unregistered


What if they were organic eggs?

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#549628 - 05/13/08 09:50 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: ]
Sherri Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/02/06
Posts: 3826
Loc: Big Sandy TN
My husband is not at all a glider person and last night when I posed the question to him all he could think of was little gliders sitting around a fire cooking eggs. LOL. But I think it is a very valid question and would love some feeback on it. And as far as the organic eggs are concerned? I'm not so sure it would matter if they were organic or the mass produced store bought. If you think about it, look at all the chemicals we ingest with the food that we eat and our babies are fine. So why wouldnt the eggs be fine as well?
_________________________
sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html

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#549631 - 05/13/08 09:54 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: Sherri]
Msdoolittle Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 10/15/06
Posts: 582
Loc: Lake Worth, FL
Salmonella is present in raw eggs as well as raw chicken. Campylobacter is also present in raw chicken. It causes diarrhea is humans- I have no idea if it affects gliders.
_________________________
~Janet~
Mom to 2 daughters (Laura & Kayla)
4 suggies (Scooter & Snickers, Coral,& Portia)
3 birds (Prince,Lucy,Sidney)
1 dog (Sammy)


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#549633 - 05/13/08 10:02 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: Msdoolittle]
Sherri Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/02/06
Posts: 3826
Loc: Big Sandy TN
I guess I'm more concerned about the eggs, since I know I wont be giving my gliders raw chicken. And as far as salmonella, you could just as easily get it from cooked foods as you can from it being raw. I know that alot of times people give their dogs raw egg for extra protien and a shinier coat. And there are people that eat raw eggs as well. I never would. EWWWW!!! But some people do.
_________________________
sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html

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#549636 - 05/13/08 10:04 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: ]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
This is a good question, nowadays with the "green" sections in MOST grocery stores offering organic eggs and chicken.

I've even seen some places with eggs that are pasteurized (so no salmonella) but still raw in the shell. I believe they are called "Safe Eggs".

Even though organic sounds nice, it just means there are no added hormones and such. There is still risk even with organic chicken and eggs of salmonella because salmonella is a family of bacteria found in the intestines of chickens (and other animals too) and passed through feces. Its then spread to the eggs directly by the birds and then cross-contamination with other foods and chicken (brest, ect) during transport/packaging/handling, so on and so forth before it arrives at your store.

Iím NOT saying it would be safer or even a good idea, but IF I were to consider giving anything a raw egg product it would only be from those previously mentioned pasteurized eggs. wink
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ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

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#549638 - 05/13/08 10:07 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: Sherri]
Msdoolittle Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 10/15/06
Posts: 582
Loc: Lake Worth, FL
For you to catch Salmonella, you have to ingest quite a lot of organism. I know people that eat raw eggs and are fine, too. I've worked too long in microbiology to even think about it. Eew! Cooking Salmonella kills it.
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~Janet~
Mom to 2 daughters (Laura & Kayla)
4 suggies (Scooter & Snickers, Coral,& Portia)
3 birds (Prince,Lucy,Sidney)
1 dog (Sammy)


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#549640 - 05/13/08 10:13 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: Msdoolittle]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Right, even then the salmonella is on the shell, the raw product would have to come in contact with the shell (which normal cracking would do). But in a MUCH smaller organism like a glider, I would worry that even the smaller dose of salmonella would be enough to do harm. Im a worry wart when it comes to my little ones. They also would be probably consuming much smaller eggs in the canopy of their native lands not our LARGE chicken eggs. So I dont know.

And plus, there is no way of knowing if your particular egg in your hand has a large dose of salmonella or small dose of salmonella.

Thats why they say to not give raw cookie dough to children. I grew up on raw cookie dough... I never got sick.... That was the best part of making cookies, getting to "clean" up!

I wonder if it would do any good to wash the egg really good before cracking it if you went with the regular ordinary egg?

I still think I would go with the pasteurized egg to be safe.
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#549646 - 05/13/08 10:24 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
Msdoolittle Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 10/15/06
Posts: 582
Loc: Lake Worth, FL
I agree. I don't eat raw eggs and I don't feed them to my children or animals. I have heard that there is Salmonella on the egg shells. I have Eggland's Best in my refrig. If I remember before I leave for work Thurs., I'll culture the egg shells and see what grows.
_________________________
~Janet~
Mom to 2 daughters (Laura & Kayla)
4 suggies (Scooter & Snickers, Coral,& Portia)
3 birds (Prince,Lucy,Sidney)
1 dog (Sammy)


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#549647 - 05/13/08 10:27 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
When I first got my first glider,Munchie, I was given a sheet of feeding instructions that came from a vet. It said to feed her small cubes of frozer raw chicken. And that's what I did until I came to GC and learned not to do that.

I've often wondered about quail eggs??? I remember seeing quail hunts in Australia. So are quail native? If so would the eggs be good for gliders? At one time we raised quail and thier feed must be unmedicated so you don't get all the hormones and stuff you get in chicken feed. But they would be pricey.

And some animals have enzymes in their digestive system to metabolize things that we can't. That's why dogs can eat road kill...and they think it is a treat. YUK!


Edited by hushpuppy (05/13/08 10:29 AM)
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#549658 - 05/13/08 10:51 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: hushpuppy]
Sherri Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/02/06
Posts: 3826
Loc: Big Sandy TN
What about if you put the egg in boiling water for a minute or 2? Wouldnt that kill the salmonella? But still be able to feed mostly raw? Hmmmm? Makes you wonder.
_________________________
sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html

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#549661 - 05/13/08 10:56 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: hushpuppy]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Well I guess it all depends on what an animal has been exposed to. Salmonella can effect many types of animals, not just birds. If they have never been exposed to it then they may not have contracted it. But it lives in their digestive systems and is passed along in feces which birds aren't the cleanest of animals and walk all over everything. Salmonella is easily spread in their water source and food source.

I dont know the native range for quail, but I think that size egg would probably be appropriate. More like their natural sizes found in the wild areas of austraila, but one thing I though about, gliders are canopy animals wereas quail are ground birds.

Once contracted in humans it usually causes fever, diarrhea, dehydration, and abdominal cramping, lasting about a week but usually goes away by its self. Sometimes requiring antibiotics (though it is resistant sometimes). According to the pubic safety website.

Im not sure its something a glider would tolerate well if the symptoms are half as bad as they are for humans. yikes.

I'll be very interested to see what grows out of that egg culture!
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#549664 - 05/13/08 11:01 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: hushpuppy]
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 6249
Loc: Kansas
I just got a book in last week from Australia 'Arboreal Marsupials a guide to keeping Possums & Gliders' by Donna Racheal.

Anyhow, it is very interesting and not an old book, last updated Aug 2007. It is about keeping these typs of animals in captivity in Australia, for those that are injured and can not be released or for breeding programs/zoos and such. It not only covers sugar gliders specificly, but squirrel gliders, any many many more possums of this type.

The diet suggested in the book is broken into two parts. A nectar diet, which is nearly identical to the HPW diet-has honey, eggs, water, pediatric vitamins, and HP baby cereal (we use the HPW instead), and a mammal meat mix, which funny enough is made of veggies and RAW meat (they suggest Kangaroo meat, chicken or rabbit, etc), cottage cheesem hard boiled egg yolk and some additional fruit. They suggest feeding part of the nectar mix a night and part of the mammal meet mix a night, along with nuts and fresh sprouted seeds and insects

Anyhow, I am bringing this book with me to the MWSGGA for everyone to look at, I have only had it a week.

What I think is funny is that there is eggs in both the necar mix and the mammal meat mix, both cooked, but the meat is served raw (frozen first).

Something to think about.
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Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon

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#549668 - 05/13/08 11:05 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: queenduck]
Sherri Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/02/06
Posts: 3826
Loc: Big Sandy TN
Very interesting Alicia. I wish I was able to go to the MWSGGA. I wonder why that is, that the meat is raw and the eggs are cooked?
_________________________
sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html

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#549669 - 05/13/08 11:06 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: Sherri]
Suggiegramma Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 1520
Loc: St. Charles, Missouri
This is from the USDA:

Various Salmonella species have long been isolated from the outside of egg shells. The present situation with S. enteritidis is complicated by the presence of the organism inside the egg, in the yolk. This and other information strongly suggest vertical transmission, i.e., deposition of the organism in the yolk by an infected layer hen prior to shell deposition.


Edited by Suggiegramma (05/13/08 11:07 AM)
_________________________
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#549671 - 05/13/08 11:08 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: Suggiegramma]
Sherri Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/02/06
Posts: 3826
Loc: Big Sandy TN
Sorry Virginia, I guess I should have waited a few more seconds before asking that last question. LOL.
_________________________
sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html

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#549672 - 05/13/08 11:09 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: queenduck]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I wonder..

cooking kills the salmanella...would freezing it kill it as well?

I've fed pinky mice and I certainly did NOT cook those!
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#549686 - 05/13/08 11:23 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: Dancing]
Suggiegramma Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 1520
Loc: St. Charles, Missouri
Eggs that have been treated to destroy Salmonella by in-shell pasteurization, for example, are not required to carry safe handling instructions. So that means they might still pick up the bacteria.

To freeze whole eggs, beat yolks and whites together. Egg whites can also be frozen by themselves. Eggs shouldn't be frozen in their shells.

No problem Sherri! LOL
_________________________
Virginia

Suggies
Sachi,Miuccia,Mignon,Cosette,Blaise,Florianna,Fabio,
Abbi,Fletcher,Eshton,Hansel,Gretel,Sahara,Parker,SugarBear,
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Hollister,Anastasia,Buffy,Tawny,Stormy,Aurora,Chance,Karma,
Kristoff,Ruby.



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#549689 - 05/13/08 11:26 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: Dancing]
buttercup
Unregistered


I thought cottage cheese was a no-no for suggies?

If you suggies don't like scrambled eggs, have you tried hard boiled?

I'm one of those people that...I don't care if it's "organic" or what have you...we do so much damage to our planet, the soil things grow in, the chemicals and preservatives we add to livestock feed..if cooking kills something as bad as salmonella...I'll cook lol.

This is a good thread tho...I've re-read it twice now.

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#549690 - 05/13/08 11:38 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: ]
TracyLynn
Unregistered


My gliders aren't big on scrambled eggs so the other night I tried boiled eggs mixed with a little bit of fruit flavored yogurt & they all Loved it. Kinda a glider egg salad.

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#549693 - 05/13/08 11:47 AM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: ]
cinnamonstix Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 3420
Loc: Twin Cities, MN
Cottage Cheese in moderation because it is high in Phospherous. (sp?)

Another note on feeding gliders meats in general... Gliders can get tapeworm from eating raw meat (if the animal was infected with tapeworm). They can also get tapworm from eating a flea.

I have had a glider with tapeworm she came to me sich with it...I would rather feed them cooked food.
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#549741 - 05/13/08 01:30 PM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: cinnamonstix]
VAinWI
Unregistered


I found out mine LOVE spinach quiche. I was thinking about making one and freezing it, for a meal addition sometimes. Heavier on the spinach, I think, and no seasonings - but beyond that, it's eggs, milk, spinach. Even my skittish girl came out of the pouch for more. tounge

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#549811 - 05/13/08 03:15 PM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: Dancing]
Msdoolittle Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 10/15/06
Posts: 582
Loc: Lake Worth, FL
Originally Posted By: Dancing
I wonder..

cooking kills the salmanella...would freezing it kill it as well?

I've fed pinky mice and I certainly did NOT cook those!


Freezing stops the bacteria from multiplying, but doesn't kill it. When the food defrosts and comes up to room temp, the bacteria start multiplying again.
_________________________
~Janet~
Mom to 2 daughters (Laura & Kayla)
4 suggies (Scooter & Snickers, Coral,& Portia)
3 birds (Prince,Lucy,Sidney)
1 dog (Sammy)


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#550984 - 05/15/08 04:21 PM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: Msdoolittle]
Xglider Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 11157
Loc: Tampa, FL
SO did we decide the we cook the eggs because of salmanella?
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#550993 - 05/15/08 04:30 PM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: Msdoolittle]
Tyrel
Unregistered


***


Edited by Tyrel (05/15/08 04:31 PM)

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#551086 - 05/15/08 07:01 PM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: ]
Msdoolittle Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 10/15/06
Posts: 582
Loc: Lake Worth, FL
I'm cooking the eggs because of Salmonella and whatever else might be present. I planted cultures this morning of egg shells and egg yolk. I'll need a couple days to let the bugs grow and I'll let you know what I find.
_________________________
~Janet~
Mom to 2 daughters (Laura & Kayla)
4 suggies (Scooter & Snickers, Coral,& Portia)
3 birds (Prince,Lucy,Sidney)
1 dog (Sammy)


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#551470 - 05/16/08 12:50 PM Re: Why do we cook it? [Re: Msdoolittle]
rob
Unregistered


I honestly don't know why we cook the eggs. I have seen wild gliders steal eggs from nest crack the shell and drink the insides. Salmonella is not a problem for most animals.

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