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#56398 - 09/01/05 12:39 AM my glider won't eat properly and has mites
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"purple"] my winkers (named so cause he winks since a joey, personally, i think he just didn't trust me enough to have both eyes closed at the same time) doesn't eat much. however, he's fat. He has 2 vets. mainly for second opinion and price. He's always been a picky eater, but now he's worse. he would rather not eat then to eat what I give him. I give him from chicken, fruits, veggies to frozen slushies, etc. I've tried EVERYTHING i could think of. Happy glider food, peanut bugger (he doesn't like nuts!) dried fruits & veggies, everything. Only thing constant is juice like orange (even though i was warned against it) and other juice i might have and mealworms. He can't live on that kind of diet! He's been like this for 2-3 years now and I'm still trying to find the cause. he's still healthy and alert. how? i don't know. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I've had 2 different vet tell me it's normal, but how can it be 'normal' if he doesn't eat anything but worms?

he also has mites as the first vet told me. He was treated but 3 weeks later he got it back. he literally has a mohawk. It's cute really, but i hope it doesn't get worse. I've cleaned his bedding, cage, everything, but still it persists. luckily, it doesn't spread. the 2nd vet didn't see any mites but treated him any way. it helped minimally for 2 weeks and after $300 the mohawk was still there.

ANYBODY have any clue how to fix either problem? I'm so concerned. Thanks! [/]


Attachments
449314-winker.jpg (118 downloads)


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#56399 - 09/01/05 01:19 AM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: Joey143]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Have you tried the BML? Or adding some honey to veg and fruit?

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#56400 - 09/01/05 04:12 AM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: Joey143]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Lill, first off, Welcome to Glider Central. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Okay, there can be a few things going on. I'll make a list:

1. What, exactly, do you feed him, how much, and what does he eat of it?

2. Is he a lone glider?

3. Neutered, or un-neutered?

4. How much time per day do YOU usually spend with him, and what are you doing (ie, is it bonding time-carrying him in a pouch with you while he's sleepy in daytime), or playtime (like in a gliderproofed room or tent when he's awake and alert?)

The overgrooming may or may not be from mites, but that needs to be dealt with. They will attack a stressed or ill glider, for example, if you are not spending enough time with a lone glider who does not have a cagemate, or if he is ill. The mites need to be dealt with in any case, because they will leave him with NO EARS AT ALL if allowed to continue. The mohawk is secondary. Overgrooming can be caused by the same things. I have a glider with one on/off. At it's worst, he had a major jaw infection. At best, he does it because he won't accept a cagemate and I have to work--he is bonded to me. It is much better than when he had the infection, however. I will attach a pic of Riker's mohawk.

Second, give us your diet info. We tend to think our guys will starve, and give up on diets too soon-or go about it in the wrong way. I just finally got all of mine on BML (Bourbon's Modified Leadbeaters) after trying on/off for almost 2.5 years and thought it was impossible. I am now "eating Crow".

The more info we have, the better we will be able to help you.

Welcome again, to you and Winkers!!


Edited by Xfilefan (09/01/05 04:12 AM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#56401 - 09/01/05 04:15 AM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Well, and here I go forgetting to attach the pic! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> This is my "Mohawk Man", Commander Riker...


Attachments
449345-MrMohawkMan001.jpg (147 downloads)

_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#56402 - 09/01/05 06:10 AM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


wow thats bad

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#56403 - 09/01/05 09:00 PM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"purple"] WOW! thanks for the reply! First, i don't know what BML is. Before I got him, i researched on gliders to make sure i can take care of it. it said something about leadbeaters and i kinda followed it. but he NEVER touched it. only ate the fresh apples until he was sick of that too and decided to go on strike.

honey on food--he only licks off the honey.

his diet: fresh fruits- apples, honeydew, cantaloupe, watermelon, figs, pears(chinese and other types), peaches(white fleshed and oragne), berries, lychee, logan berry, kiwi, mango, guava, grapes, cherry, pineapple, avacado, (rarely oranges and grapefruit--he even likes lemons!!!), tomato, coconut. <-- those are the most common ones, he only eats the oranges, grapes, lychee, logan berry, cherry, avacado, and watermelon .

fresh veggies - lettuce, corn, carrot(cooked and uncooked), beans, celery(cooked and uncooked), tofu, cabbage, potato, chinese veggies(i'm chinese if you haven't figure that out yet =oD ), sweet potatoes, etc. he only eats corn (actually, now he's banning that too) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tantrum.gif" alt="" />

meat- beef, chicken, pork, duck, fish, Very little seafood (turns his nose up on ALL of these)

other - cat food, happy glider, bread (he likes), honey, jam, VERY little condensed milk, spaghetti w/ sauce (he like because it looks like mealies), chinese pastry (a lick here and there), mealworms, sometimes waxworms, gliderade, peanut bugger. i think that's about it.

He used to finish a good 2/3 of his food, now just literally a lick! if a fruit is sweet, then he'll eat some of it. The ants certainly don't help either. it annoys him. (how do i get rid of them safely?)

he is neutered.

He is a lone glider, I thought of getting a playmate, but his temperment is NOT good. he'll likely kill it then play w/ it.

here's the whole scenario, i had him since a couple week joey from a breeder, neutered. i bonded w/ him every hour of the day and let him in his cage at night. The whole pouch thing and 2 t-shirts. i did it for 2 years or so until he cannot stand being in his pouch. At night, he used to play with me like a puppy. There's a window a yard from my bed and he would climb up the curtains to the very top and glide down smack onto my face. i thought it very funny. and he would run around the pillow and peek at me like a little kid. it was so cute. but he doesn't do those antics anymore. he's around 5 or 6 years old now. he hardly let me touch him. I don't pet hard or anything, he just doesn't like to be bothered. the only time he lets is when i feed him mealies. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/needhug.gif" alt="" />

he gets full run of my room all night, i'm also nocturnal so i suervise him. but he usually hides under my bed. occassionally he'll run around the room and knock things over. that's fine, as long as he's having fun. (he knocked down 2 vases w/ water onto 2 new printers!) it was my fault for putting it so close, but i didn't think him strong enough! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

i introduce new toys, he hates them. he doesn't like to play w/ anything. i'm a little worried he might be depressed too. but he very alert and inquisitive when i put my face up to him. but he won't let me touch him.

he first vet said he has liver damage so the mites overpowered him. he's had these mites for a couple of years now! i know it sounds horrible but i took him to the vet again and again and then changed vets. did i not do enough? most likely. it hasn't spread luckily. he looks a lot like Commander Riker, but the black strip is competely undisturbed. strange!

thanks again for the response and welcome. i really appreciate it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanx.gif" alt="" /> [/]

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#56404 - 09/02/05 01:14 PM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: Joey143]
Anonymous
Unregistered


wow, sounds like you have your hands ful. my baby chip is a lone glider for the moment anyway. It sounds like you maybe trying to much to fast. What i mean is my chip may not like a new veggie at first but i put it in his bowl at least 3 nights in a row so he has to atleast try it. He hated lima beans at first but now its his favorite. I also use the BML diet i use it as an "ice cream" i put it to the side and on the bottom and he usually eats the veggies and fruits first. Have you checked his mouth for sores or broken teeth or anything? Mealies my be what is soft enough. One thing i have learned is be patient Chip has his moods and when he is sleepy or doesnt feel like a kind loving little boy he can be a pain. So, chin up and email me anytime.

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#56405 - 09/02/05 03:04 PM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: Joey143]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
K-I'll post the link to the BML-sorry it took so long to get back with you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Here are the things that are not good for gliders, and need to be eliminated, diet wise:

No straight honey.
I'm not sure if lychees are ok...they are oriental, and not native to a glider's home area (Austrailia, New Guinea, Tasmania)..might want to ask in the diets forum.
eliminate lettuce (almost no nutritional value..just a filler with no nutrients, mainly water)
Oranges can be a VERY occasional treat, in small amounts, in gliders OVER 6 months old only. Grapefruit and lemons are extremely high acidicly, and I would not feed them.
NO celery or cabbage--celery is a member of the onion family, which is a NO for gliders, and cabbage is gas producing (can cause bad bloating, as gliders cannot eliminate gas the way we do, or other placental mammmals). Avoid gassy foods, like most beans, cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, brussels sprouts..green beans and an occasional bean sprout are ok.
Tofu can carry the risk of aflatoxins, so I don't feed to mine, but some do. I just advise caution there.
Use potatoes as a maybe once a week treat, only a couple of pieces.
Seafood is not a good idea.
Go with ONE meat item in moderation for a meal (maybe 1/4 tsp in addition to other foods)
Avoid hard foods (If cat food is necessary, soak in water or apple juice first, as it can cause jaw infections from scratches on the gums. Cat is also very high in ash content...necessary for a cat's digestion, but not a glider's.
Tomatoes he can have a small piece FRESH maybe once a month. NO spaghetti sauce, condensed milk (gliders are lactose intolerant-use yogurt without artificial sweetener instead, mine love the LaCreme vanilla), NO jam or bread (a tiny piece of bread or lick of FRUIT ONLY jam is okay as a very occasional treat).

Here is the link to the BML diet:
BML

OR..Darcy's diet:

Darcy's Diet

OR the Suncoast diet plan:

Suncoast Diet

They are all very similar..Zookeeper's Secret (aka Insectivore Fare)..is a soft pellet that won't hurt their mouth. The other two are basically liquidy staples.

I would not let him play unsupervised in a room. He could be getting into or eating things and you won't know it (things that could be damaging to his insides). Try a Jr. Dome tent from walmart for out of cage play..they only run $17.99-$19.99 and are a great investment for your glider. You can also get in with them, and interact that way when they climb on you.

I'd say the prob. is a combination of diet and interaction with his human, at this point-overgrooming wise, tho the mites MAY contribute SOME.

Do choose one of the above diets, and stay with it-or see which he'll eat and try one at a time, at least a WEEK on each one. Cut out treat foods to encourage him to eat the diet that is good for him. He WILL eat it if it's all that's offered, eventually..at least ONE of them. Another problem is he's getting TOO MUCH variety, which is now causing problems where he won't eat anything. Time for some Tough Love, if you don't want to lose your little guy. He may not want to be "bothered" at this point because he doesn't feel well. Try the tent, it has worked WONDERS for others (me included). Also, feel free to PM anytime for help..tho we prefer questions be on the board for all to learn...and I will answer as soon as I can.

I'd say start treating for mites, then start fixing diet and together time...since this may take time, you may have to treat more than once, but let's see if we can save your little one's ears and get him healthy and content once again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#56406 - 09/03/05 01:18 AM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks so much for the response.

However, anything you've eliminated he has already, other then orange juice and broccoli. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" /> the lemon, i gave him one PULP and he liked it! but of course, that was all. He actually loves bread. I read in some sites that bread (or toast rather) is good for them.

Here's the thing that seems to be slipping your minds, or rather i haven't emphasized enough. HE DOESN'T EAT ANYTHING BUT MEALWORMS, with the occasional bread or fruit!! seriously!! i've asked both vets and they just simply shake their heads and say that gliders are known for their finkiness. I've tried consistency. I've tried variety. I've tried just giving him the same thing to make him try it for several days, and literally, he would rather not eat then try! his vet gave him x-rays after another. He has a good book of them by now. But she says other then his liver, he's fine. I had to force feed him when he was sick. i hope i don't have to resort to that again.

the really weird thing is he's alert! the vet told me to give 5-10 mealies a day. is that right? i sure hope a vet is not too off on something so detrimental to their health. but we're allowed our mistakes. I happen to make more than others when it comes to him. he really baffles me. if he was a dog, he would have died by now. he really doesn't eat anything. I don't surpass 10 mealies to make sure it doesn't fill up his stomach. but i've tried so many things that it just seems too much.

he doesn't seem to like bonding. the tent is a really good idea, but i have no more then 3 feet of undisturbed space here. sometimes, when i nap in the afternoon, i take his flannel (w/ him) out of his nesting box and put him on me while we sleep. The entire time my hand petting him. he likes it up until he wakes up then he bolts under the bed til nighttime. again, i tried pouching him again, but he for some weird reason doesn't like it. I can't think of any trama or unpleasantness associated to it, so i'm really really...i don't know the word. confused? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />

i'm sorry, it's starting to sound like a sob story. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nopity.gif" alt="" />

he HATES lights. i figured that, him being nocturnal. how am i supposed to play w/ him in total darkness?

again, i really appreciate all the help WE can get. I'm really trying. sometimes i think he would be better off w/ another mommy. i even tried zoos, and books. I can't seem to figure him out. i know he cares for me. once in 2 years or so, he'll climb into bed with me at night and snuggle in my hair. (i'm an insomniac and am literally awake for hours b4 i actually fall asleep.) I LOVE THAT! but once i move, he hides. I really don't understand it. it's like he's a teenager!

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#56407 - 09/03/05 09:34 PM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: Joey143]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't have many suggestions..but I have 2 older gliders (2 and 3 yrs) and they are very nocturnal...I have a red light in my room over their cage...then I can see them and they still think it's pitch black lol....it works for me...you also may want to try babyfood...at least a little...if fresh fruits and veggies aren't working. Just a suggestion.

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#56408 - 09/04/05 04:48 AM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Tell you what..PM me your phone #, and I'll get ahold of Bourbon (the designer of BML). She got my gliders to do things I would have SWORE they'd NEVER do in 100 YEARS! Don't ask me how, because I honestly DON'T KNOW. All I can say is, she is a miracle worker, and Don't give up! It IS possible. For a 2 1/2 year old SM to start eating the BML he would have DIED (I kid you NOT) rather than eaten, to eat it, is a miracle in my book. I couldn't get it down him short of forcing it with a syringe, before.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#56409 - 09/04/05 10:48 AM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Does he lick your fingers or hands at all?

The reason I ask, my gliders won't touch certain things (mostly BML), but when I hand feed it to them, they gobble it up. Its very strange, but I think its more about the interaction than the food. Yes, it does take some time to sit there and hand feed them, but their health is more important than my time.

I'm sure others will offer better, more permanent suggestions, but this might work as a short term solution to get him to take more of the stuff he needs.

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#56410 - 09/04/05 11:17 AM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I have in my care a little glider named Reepicheep. I'm going to post a picture of him that will totally shock you. He didn't just have some bald spots where he was over grooming, he was BALD! Almost completely. He went through some very traumatizing life changes and got stressed. Through my research, trying to find the cause of his hair loss, I learned that there is a type of mites that all mammals have that live benieth the skin. This is normal but when their immune system becomes compromised, these mites can get out of control. This may be why you can't get rid of your glider's mites. With his liver problems and him not eating, the mites are having a grand ol party.

My vet suggested that Reep be given as stress free environment as possible. Put on a good diet and have no changes (such as cage toys, cage mates, cage location, routine) and "just see how he does". Well, I got him on a good diet, and as stress free of an environment as I can provide. He has made remarkable progress.

Now, mites were never determined to be the cause of Reeps hair loss. So I am not saying this is the same situation as your glider. But I believe the first step for your glider is getting him on good food, on a stead basis. Get a routine as far as when he eats, when he is out of the cage, when you clean the cage, etc...

I also think that perhaps he does need a friend. Even if they are not housed in the same cage, perhaps a friend in the same room he can talk to. You might be surprised. I could be as simple as him being lonely for another of his kind.


Attachments
450624-Reep,6-2-05,7-7-05.JPG (69 downloads)

_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#56411 - 09/04/05 11:20 AM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
The first attachment is Reep in June and July. This is in Aug. Unfortunately, my digi camera just does not show off his new hair like I wish it would. I am going to take some 35 mm pics today and get them in for developing. His progress is totally remarkable. I hope to have the new pics back in a week and can show him off. He still looks bald in these pics but he really isn't. It is more my camera being not worth a plug nickle.


Attachments
450626-Reep8-10-05.JPG (66 downloads)

_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#56412 - 09/04/05 02:17 PM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Try zookeepers secret or "Insectivorefare" see if he likes that. My gliders are nuts over the stuff.

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#56413 - 09/05/05 06:06 AM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just a quick note ref Cat food, if you feed cat food, make sure you use Iams adult, it has no artificial colours or preserves, and the ash content is 5.9% which is actually less than Insectivore fare which is 9%

Hope you get your little one sorted soon :o)

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#56414 - 09/05/05 12:04 PM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: ozzi]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you all for the helpful suggestions. Unfortunately, I failed to provide these help to him soon enough and he passed away Sunday afternoon. His liver failed him and we buried him in my garden.

Thank you for all the wonderful support. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frostyangel.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />

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#56415 - 09/06/05 03:06 AM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: Joey143]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh no! I'm so sorry <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

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#56416 - 09/06/05 12:14 PM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: ozzi]
Anonymous
Unregistered


lill...im so very sorry to hear that... *hugs*

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#56417 - 09/07/05 06:31 PM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am so sorry for your loss

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#56418 - 09/09/05 04:14 AM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


aww poor lil guy at least he knew you loved him and did your very best huggs for you

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#56419 - 09/09/05 01:25 PM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


sorry to hear about it and you have my prayer and lots of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

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#56420 - 09/09/05 07:49 PM Re: my glider won't eat properly and has mites [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


It seemed like you were working so hard to help him. I'm so sorry for your loss.

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