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#573206 - 06/19/08 01:32 PM I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonight!
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
Alright so intros were complete b/n Ruthie and Giz...we had 3 blissful nights of being in the same cage with new stuff and one or two things from each of them with their scent on it...grooming eachother, clicking at eachother, barking for eachother within the cage, playing with eachother, etc....true love. Last night...different story.

Their cage is in my bedroom. I woke up to crabbing and chasing. Gizmo was aggressively and with purpose chasing Ruthie around the cage. The only time he wasn't going after her was when she was running in her wheel, and at times he'd even wait by the wheel to see if she'd come out. When she dared to come out (she almost knew not to), he would in a mean way chase her throughout the cage, crabbing at eachother the whole time. I had her quarantine cage for the most part still set up so I took her wheel and main sleeping spot and put her back in her cage for the rest of the night, plus all the other toys and hiding spots in there (this was 4:45 a.m., they go to bed at 6:15, so this wasn't all night). I was just afraid for her - no there were no balling up fights (I know I've been told that as long as they're not balled up fighting violently, it's ok). Nothing serious ever happened, but I think that's only b/c she's quciker than him and he didn't catch her - I don't even want to know what would have happened if he had, she's smaller tban him. Plus this was my first time w/ intros, so I didn't know what was acceptable and normal in terms of quarreling.

A few things I noticed:
A) As soon as Ruthie had food and water to herself in her own cage, she started GOBBLING food. Now they each know their own food bowls - when they come out of their pouch for the night, they each go to their own food bowls and eat, but I still found that odd - could Gizmo be food hogging? If so, what do I do about it?

B) Giz sat looking down from the top shelf on the cage looking intently for her after I had taken her out - he's done that on occasion when she's in the wheel, but he literally sat there for almost half an hour.

I can't figured out who started what or who made who mad, but Ruthie was def. scared and Giz was def. mad. Where do I go from here? Am I starting all over with intros? Am I letting them sleeping together during the day but not in the same cage at night playing for a few days? Or is this behavior normal? Is is establishing territory or just a lovers' quarrel? Should I still take the approach that as long as they don't ball up fighting, they need to be able to settle arguments like this? I'm just scared b/c Giz was on a mission.

The bizarre part is that they're currently sleeping in the same sleeping spot again since 6:30 a.m. I took them both out in seperate pouches to make sure they were OK and Ruthie crawled right in w/ Giz and he had no problem with it.


Now what? I'm dreading tonight b/c I have no idea what cage arrangements should be....please please help and offer me advice, I'm terrified!

_________________________
Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile

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#573233 - 06/19/08 02:11 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonight! [Re: angelic4296]
SugareeErin Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 3843
Loc: Lisle, Illinois
If they continue this behavior I would split them and spend more time on intros, supervised play and sleep time. Keep two or more sleeping pouches in the cage just incase. It's good that you have the 2 food dishes, you may even want to have three. Some gliders are food agressive. Chasing is very stressful for them and can lead to fighting. I have had a similar experience, mine were together one week when my female was bit in the tail. There had been some chasing which is why your post makes my nervous for your girl. Hopefully they will be okay tonight but keep a second cage on standby just incase.
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#573255 - 06/19/08 02:41 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonight! [Re: SugareeErin]
PixTrix
Unregistered


It sounds like Gizmo is getting territorial about food, toys, pouches, cage with Ruthie, unfortunately. It does sound like Gizmo is hogging the food and is making Ruthie nervous about eating her food. Gizmo is showing his dominance and territoriality over Ruthie, poor girl.

What I would do is take Gizmo out at feeding time, to give Ruthie a chance to eat what she wants. When she leaves the food bowl and goes to play, then put Gizmo in with her.

If this behavorial pattern continues for tonight, then I suggest separating the two. Sometimes we have to take two steps backwards, one step forward, two steps backwards, etc. when it comes to bonding with each other. I would also suggest to continue swapping pouches, toys, and even cages for a bit while longer.

I am so glad you are so "in tune" with your gliders! That is what makes you such an excellent mommy!

Hope this helps!


Jen

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#573261 - 06/19/08 02:55 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonight! [Re: ]
Brittney
Unregistered


I agree with what was said above - great advice from great suggie mamas! My other bit of advise is two sepparate single-sized kitchens. I use plastic recipe boxes that I cut a "door" in. I use it upside down so the food dish sits on the lid of the box. Then I put each at opposite sides of the cage with the doors facing apart (I actually put the doors facing against the side of the cage). This way not only can only one glider fit at a time, but the doors face apart so that it's hard to see in there. Perhaps that would help in addition to her getting her own dinner time??

Good luck - please keep us posted!

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#573298 - 06/19/08 03:48 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonight! [Re: ]
Suggiegramma Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 1520
Loc: St. Charles, Missouri
She might be in heat also...
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Virginia

Suggies
Sachi,Miuccia,Mignon,Cosette,Blaise,Florianna,Fabio,
Abbi,Fletcher,Eshton,Hansel,Gretel,Sahara,Parker,SugarBear,
Emily,Ariana,Symphony,Mozart,Smeegle,Cocoa,Hershey,Tippy,
Hollister,Anastasia,Buffy,Tawny,Stormy,Aurora,Chance,Karma,
Kristoff,Ruby.



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#573328 - 06/19/08 04:55 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonight! [Re: Suggiegramma]
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
When females are in heat, will the males get aggressive like that even if they're neutered??
_________________________
Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile

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#573382 - 06/19/08 06:12 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonight! [Re: angelic4296]
morbidelf Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 538
Loc: Norfolk, VA
Originally Posted By: angelic4296
When females are in heat, will the males get aggressive like that even if they're neutered??

from what i have seen with my boys, yes. Malachai is neutered and when Sophie when into heat he went from being a sweetie to a meanie for about two or three nights. i could be wrong but i think it is a males way of showing he still has it..even though he doesnt roflmao
_________________________
Jessi
owned 6 suggies: Thor & Sophie, Sora & Riku, Kairi & Malachai
3 cats: Toboe, Data, and Maleficent


:rbridge: I'll love you forever Doyle ?/?/05-9/7/10, Nicodemus (rat) 11/6/10-6/25/11, Akasha (cat) 7/15/08-10/23/11

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#573395 - 06/19/08 06:28 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonight! [Re: morbidelf]
PixTrix
Unregistered


Let's hope that is the case of Ruthie being in heat and that Gizmo is being like this for only a couple of days...


Jen

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#573489 - 06/19/08 09:31 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonight! [Re: ]
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
Ok, so he's chasing her and she wants nothing to do with him, she's OBSESSIVELY running in her wheel just so he can't get to her I think, they have their moments when they're around eachother and even making bodily contact but for the most part, it's a case of chasing...I also moved her food bowl to the bottom of the cage near her wheel so it's easily accessible to her and left his at the top of the cage so the food situation in a bit seperated also...should I put her back in her own cage until she's out of heat (how long is that ON AVERAGE) or will it be more stressful to seperate them? Which is worse for her, putting up with him frightening her/harassing her or being seperated from eachother....like I said during the day they sleep so cutely and peacefully together... I just don't want anyone to get hurt....
_________________________
Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile

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#573492 - 06/19/08 09:35 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonight! [Re: angelic4296]
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
she hasn't stopped running in her wheel since she woke up ad ate...is that normal?
_________________________
Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile

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#573493 - 06/19/08 09:35 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonight! [Re: angelic4296]
PixTrix
Unregistered


If she wants nothing to do with him, then I would separate her from Gizmo, but do put their cages next to each other, so they wouldn't be alienated. There is no sense letting Gizmo stress poor Ruthie anymore.

I am not sure how long the cycle lasts in female gliders. I heard it lasts just a couple days but haven't read anything to confirm that.


Jen

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#573496 - 06/19/08 09:40 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonight! [Re: ]
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
Jessi, when yours did that, how did the female react? Did she do the same thing as Ruthie, did you seperate them or let it play out? I'm so nervous right now...
_________________________
Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile

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#573536 - 06/19/08 10:32 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonight! [Re: angelic4296]
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
Ok and now they;re in seperate resting quarters, Ruthie has her head sticking out of Hippo like looking for him, Gizmo is in a tent...they usually rest together...but get this....

Gizmo started peeing before and she cleaned him up down there a bit and he sat there and let her, they were sniffing eachother a bit, again making bodily contact too....they're so hot and cold, I don't know which way to go....seperate or leave together...guys, help, someone just give me the perfect answer!!!! lol I'm scared!
_________________________
Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile

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#573545 - 06/19/08 10:43 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonight! [Re: angelic4296]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13746
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
I had the same problem with two of my glider pairs. I'd try to let them stay together at night but they would argue and crab and throw all kinds of fits so I would separate them but keep their cages close together. NOT within reach, but within sight of each other. During the day, I kept them in the same bonding pouch and kept the pouch on me all day. It took about a month of this before they started getting along.
_________________________
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812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

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"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#573550 - 06/19/08 10:48 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonight! [Re: suggiemom1980]
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
Ugh, so basically if this goes on again tonight, I should separate them at night and let them sleep together during the day....

Problem...my room is not condusive to keeping their cages a foot apart...they're not near eachother, but last night when I seperated them, they def. noticed that the other wasn't there....are keeping their cages near eachother essential or is there some way to get around it??
_________________________
Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile

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#573579 - 06/19/08 11:26 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonigh [Re: angelic4296]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
You have been given some great advice so far! Don't stress...the gliders will definately pick up on your stress ohwell . IF you can put their cages side by side, I would try that for a while.

Now...this is going to go in the oppostite direction, but I am only posting this because I have had several pairs for many years and the last pair pulled this exact same behavior on me. Exactly everything you are describing. They are so bad, during OOC playtime, one will think the other is a strange new big bad glider and the balling up fighting begins. Then...an ...Oh, sorry, that's you...my bad. EVERY night. shakehead I now laugh when they do it...BUT...I know them and their behaviors very very well. Armani even gets attitude back at Prada if she gets upset with him for smacking her around...it's crazy.

Few things....are these young gliders? (they could be establishing dominance)
Do you KNOW their personalities? (if this is completely out of character for these 2...no doubt separate them).
There is a full moon.
It could be a heat cycle for the female OR it could be a combination of all of the above smile.

Regardless, if YOU feel (in your gut so to speak) they should be separated...listen to yourself thumb.

Karin
_________________________
Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"

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#573583 - 06/19/08 11:30 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonigh [Re: Karin]
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
They are both around 3 yrs. old so no, not young.
I know Gizmo's personality for 2 and a half years. This is our first time introducing him to a cagemate tho, so I don't know his personality well in THIS aspect...
Ruthie only know for a 2 months or so, but well enough to know she's usually fearless regarding Gizmo
This is a full moon, true, do gliders get funny around this time??? There's been crabbing and chasing, but no actual fighting...does that constitute separating???
_________________________
Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile

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#573585 - 06/19/08 11:34 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonigh [Re: angelic4296]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
I think it's a Catch 22. If there is no injury, and the balling up is only momentarily...I would leave them together HOWEVER....it may very well be your male changed his mind (not common, but can happen.) Jess...follow your gut on this one.

hug2

Yes...alot of glider's act goofy during a full moon. Some don't eat, others eat more...some sleep, some don't...try to watch the moon cycles and get to know what yours do. That was the only thing that worked for me every month when I would get frustrated (I FINALLY figured it out, lol)


Edited by Karin (06/19/08 11:35 PM)
_________________________
Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"

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#573587 - 06/19/08 11:37 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonigh [Re: Karin]
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
No there's been NO physical fights at all, none, just chasing and crabbing....just her trying to avoid him and him chasing her, i can't tell which one is crabbing....but then they have moments of lovey-ness...leave together and just keep vigil??
_________________________
Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile

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#573948 - 06/20/08 05:01 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonigh [Re: angelic4296]
bambi5826
Unregistered


hmmm, i think there is all kinds of good advice here. personaly, and i am in no way an expert, as long as he is nothing hurting her, i would leave them togehter. i also believe there is a good chance she could be in heat.

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#574018 - 06/20/08 07:16 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonigh [Re: ]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
How did everything go last night? I hope that things have started to settle down and are back to normal.

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#574232 - 06/21/08 08:34 AM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonigh [Re: LSardou]
PixTrix
Unregistered


How were things with Gizmo and Ruthie last night? Are they cuddling up together and playing together nicely now?


Jen

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#574297 - 06/21/08 10:37 AM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonigh [Re: ]
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
I am almost positive she was A) in heat and B) they're still settling into eachother's habits and movements...I noticed that if one of them makes a big noise or moves suddenly, it scare the poop out of the other...plus yes, thank you all for pointing out that she was most likely in heat b/c they're back to their normal behavior for the most part....I'm SOOOOOOOO appreciative of all the amazing advice I got in this post, it literally kept me from panicking and having a nervous breakdown....once in a great while he'll still chase her but he also runs away if she makes a loud noise, so I think we're all good...they were grooming eachother before falling asleep last I checked, so PHEW and A BIG THANK YOU FROM ME GIZ AND RUTHIE!!!!!
_________________________
Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile

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#574301 - 06/21/08 10:48 AM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonigh [Re: angelic4296]
PixTrix
Unregistered


Glad we could help! That is what we are here for, to help one another out!

Glad to hear that Gizmo and Ruthie are getting along better!


Jen

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#574375 - 06/21/08 01:59 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonigh [Re: ]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
clap Yeah!

Karin
_________________________
Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"

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#574384 - 06/21/08 02:19 PM Re: I'm nauseated and need HELP! Scared for Tonigh [Re: Karin]
SugareeErin Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 3843
Loc: Lisle, Illinois
YAY, Glad your gliders are getting along. smile They can be such brats sometimes lol
_________________________

:leu: Sugaree Gliders :rtmo:


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Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow









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