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#588334 - 07/12/08 11:39 PM Mold in Mealies!!!
Suggiegramma Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 1520
Loc: St. Charles, Missouri
I give my babies a mealie by hand and then put a couple more in their cage for later. After I gave them one I went to put the bin back and saw mold! It's the one I took the mealies out of for tonights treat! As soon as I saw it, I took the mealies out of their cages, but they still got at least one! There's just a small amount of it at the bottom, but of course, I threw them all away. Will eating one mealie hurt them? I took the mealies from the top of the bin, not close to the mold.

I also have an identical bin right next to the other one that's not quite so full and there's no problem. Could it have been too full?
_________________________
Virginia

Suggies
Sachi,Miuccia,Mignon,Cosette,Blaise,Florianna,Fabio,
Abbi,Fletcher,Eshton,Hansel,Gretel,Sahara,Parker,SugarBear,
Emily,Ariana,Symphony,Mozart,Smeegle,Cocoa,Hershey,Tippy,
Hollister,Anastasia,Buffy,Tawny,Stormy,Aurora,Chance,Karma,
Kristoff,Ruby.



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#588338 - 07/12/08 11:54 PM Re: Mold in Mealies!!! [Re: Suggiegramma]
PeeperKeeper
Unregistered


Sometimes mold grows in the mealies when I take them out of the fridge for a while, then put them back a few times. I had to throw all mine out just the other day. You definitely don't want to use them anymore when you see it, but I think it's unlikely to be the bad type of mold (the aflatoxin producing type) so don't panic. Someone once told me that the aflatoxin type of mold is bright orange when it grows on corn, but I don't take chances. I throw it out no matter what color it is (it's usually green of course).

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#588340 - 07/13/08 12:18 AM Re: Mold in Mealies!!! [Re: ]
Suggiegramma Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 1520
Loc: St. Charles, Missouri
Whew....I was worried! Thanks!
_________________________
Virginia

Suggies
Sachi,Miuccia,Mignon,Cosette,Blaise,Florianna,Fabio,
Abbi,Fletcher,Eshton,Hansel,Gretel,Sahara,Parker,SugarBear,
Emily,Ariana,Symphony,Mozart,Smeegle,Cocoa,Hershey,Tippy,
Hollister,Anastasia,Buffy,Tawny,Stormy,Aurora,Chance,Karma,
Kristoff,Ruby.



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#588388 - 07/13/08 04:40 AM Re: Mold in Mealies!!! [Re: Suggiegramma]
cinnamonstix Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 3420
Loc: Twin Cities, MN
It is a olive-green, powdery mold actually. If held under a black light it is possible to appear florescent due to the compounds of the mold. Not seeing florescent coloring under the light is not a sure sign that the mold is not present however.

It does not grow looking orange. Eating one worm your gliders will likely be fine, but be cautious and keep a watchful eye on your gliders. It can cause organ failure and respiritory issues and is non-treatable although medical research indicates that a regular diet with veggies like carrots, parsnips, celery and parsley will reduce the carcinogecic effects of aflotoxins in the body. It is a very scary mold. It also grow inside, in homes. If you ever see any mold have it treated for correctly as it can cause sever effects in humans and animals just by residing in the same area.

I wish the people who like to feed crickets would read over some articles and look at some pics of the mold, see how bad it really is and how dangerus. Seeing pics of it growing in animals lungs... so sad. The effects of aflotoxin in the body are horrible. Necrosis, cirrhosis, & carcinoma of the liver exhibited by hemorrhage, acute liver damage, edema, alteration in digestion, and absorption and/or metabolism of nutrients. Humans have a high tolerance generally but children can get stunted growth and delayed development. Chronic exposure leads to a high risk of developing liver failure.

Things that are a risk factor are grains such as corn, maize, sorghum, pearl millet, rice, wheat, peanut, soybean, sunflower, cotton, chile peppers, black pepper, coriander, turmeric, ginger, almond, pistachio, walnut, coconut, brazil nut. Milk is also effected if the animal producing the milk have been fed contaminated feed. Also basically all sources of peanut butter contain a tiny quantity of aflotoxin but it is generally far below the FDA safe level reccomendation.

Anyways, watch your babies and just try to keep a watchful eye on your worms when housing them. We had some here that molded, they were forgot about as we did not want to attend to tossing them right then and there since they were in the basement...next time we went back to check was a bit too long and the worms like sprouted into huge mealies. It was scary they did not grow until the mass amount of mnold came in. The entire thing got tossed...bin and all.
_________________________
~GWEN~
Crazy BF Dru
Tortoise: Vork
Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes
Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Icarus & Ivy; Howie & Gracie; Rei & Syfka; Rafiki & Rajah, Opal, Lily & Link, Tael, Tatl & Navi

www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com

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#588439 - 07/13/08 10:25 AM Re: Mold in Mealies!!! [Re: cinnamonstix]
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 11015
Loc: MA
Do you have or know where we could see pics of mold growing? I have never had a problem with mold, but it would be good for everyone to be able to see it.
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Mary

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#588449 - 07/13/08 10:31 AM Re: Mold in Mealies!!! [Re: pappy1264]
peace
Unregistered


Thank you Gwen for your post.

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#588572 - 07/13/08 02:27 PM Re: Mold in Mealies!!! [Re: ]
cinnamonstix Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 3420
Loc: Twin Cities, MN
I just did a google image search on aspergillus mold. I was also looking up articles on the mold as well as aflotoxin.

Here are some pics of mold growing inside lungs. This involves internal organs so may be considered graphic. If you are not interested in the effects of aflotoxin and aspergillus mold inside the body, this is not for you. But please note that seeing these is a good learning experience. So many gliders die to to aflotoxing poisoning and it is not a pretty death. This is a good reason to NOT feed crickets. Not only until you see the effects do you really see the danger. I have a glider that loves crickets. I admit, when I was new...I did not kow any better. But I was warned right away and I took the advice. Anyways...here are some pics:
http://www.michigan.gov/images/aspergillosis1_103553_7.jpg
http://www.michigan.gov/images/aspergillosis1_103553_7.jpg
http://pathmicro.med.sc.edu/mycology/asper3.jpg
This one shows the mold in the nasal cavity:
http://pathmicro.med.sc.edu/mycology/asper1.jpg

This type of mold is also called a mycotoxins meaning is is a sporous mold and can travel around in the air, so if you ever do discover mold in your home it needs to handled properly (I would reccomend a professional). You can not paint over it as the mold will eat the paint/use it as food and also for mold on the walls, bleach will only kill visable surface mold. Bleach will not soak into the wall surface. The bleach chemical part will stay atop the surface while the water part of the bleach will soak into the wall therefore creating more miosture and furthering the problem. More on the sporous mold...since it can travel in the air it is highly dangerous in creating respiritory complications and can be serious and carry life long effects.

Again I emphasize, this is a very scary mold and very hazardous in both food or growing in the home. Be cautious and do not feed anything that may possibly be carrying aflotoxin. It is very serious and CAN NOT be cured and causes MANY deaths in many species. In Michigan, over 30 species have had aspergillosis be the determining factor of death. These species it is considered a major mortality factor. Kiss your babies, don't feed crickets and keep a close watch over anything your glider eat, if in doubt...toss it. Better safe than sorry.
_________________________
~GWEN~
Crazy BF Dru
Tortoise: Vork
Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes
Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Icarus & Ivy; Howie & Gracie; Rei & Syfka; Rafiki & Rajah, Opal, Lily & Link, Tael, Tatl & Navi

www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com

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#588778 - 07/13/08 09:18 PM Re: Mold in Mealies!!! [Re: cinnamonstix]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
Originally Posted By: cinnamonstix
This is a good reason to NOT feed crickets.


I just want to point out that this is why some people choose not to feed ANY type of grain eating insect, because the risk is always present, whether you feed crickets or mealworms. People that raise their own crickets on no grain what-so-ever have no more (in fact less) of a risk of Aspergillus thus Aflatoxin in their crickets. But it is something to be aware of for everyone. We have had a lot of people lose gliders to Aflatoxin in mealworms as well.

Originally Posted By: cinnamonstix
This type of mold is also called a mycotoxins meaning is is a sporous mold and can travel around in the air

A mycotoxin is just a toxin that a fungus produces (in this case we are discussing a mycotoxin called Aflatoxin that is produced by some Aspergillus species of molds).

I do not know if the Aflatoxin producing species of Aspergillus are air borne or not, though as Gwen said, it is better to be safe than sorry.
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#588796 - 07/13/08 09:36 PM Re: Mold in Mealies!!! [Re: sugarlope]
cinnamonstix Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 3420
Loc: Twin Cities, MN
It is a powdery mold and easilly distrupted spores will travel in the air, so ingesting it or breathing it is harmful to any mammal. If ingested it will likely become aflotoxin infection, if breathed in it will be Aspergillosis infection and can cause respiritory infections, ect like the pics of the mold actually growing inside living and functioning lungs. Aspergillosis is treatable, although it is very serious, can leave life long effects after treatment and is not easilly diagnosed, so possibility in gliders would be EXTREMLY serious and meds may cause liver failure due to the size of the animal and the infection severity. Aflotoxin is NOT curable and there is no remedy to aleviate the severity. It is carried in the body of the host for the remainder of the hosts life. In the case of insects, it will not be passed on to the offspring, so if say you bred your own crickets at home on no grains you would have a safe stock of crickets to feed the gliders so long as you are only feeding the offspring crickets rather than the original stock of parent crickets. Also, this is why you do not ever feed any sort of bait bugs, because the standards and quality of feed and growing of the bugs are satisfactory, the bugs could carry disease and they also have a lower nutritional content as their sole purpose is bait and they are not being used for any sort of nutritional value.


Edited by cinnamonstix (07/13/08 09:37 PM)
_________________________
~GWEN~
Crazy BF Dru
Tortoise: Vork
Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes
Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Icarus & Ivy; Howie & Gracie; Rei & Syfka; Rafiki & Rajah, Opal, Lily & Link, Tael, Tatl & Navi

www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com

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#600572 - 07/31/08 01:31 AM Re: Mold in Mealies!!! [Re: sugarlope]
7glider7
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: sugarlope[s

I just want to point out that this is why some people choose not to feed ANY type of grain eating insect, because the risk is always present, whether you feed crickets or mealworms. People that raise their own crickets on no grain what-so-ever have no more (in fact less) of a risk of Aspergillus thus Aflatoxin in their crickets. But it is something to be aware of for everyone. We have had a lot of people lose gliders to Aflatoxin in mealworms as well.



Thank you so much for pointing this out on this thread.

I have a VERY glider experienced vet and she actually recommends feeding crickets because they are higher in protein and actually much more nutritious than mealies, which are fatty larval insects.

Thanks again for pointing out that mealworms can also carry aflatoxins if housed in moldy bedding.

It is not the CRICKETS that is the problem. It is MOLDY BEDDING, or as pointed out, any type of mold growing in the environment near your gliders can also release toxins that may be a problem.

There is a lot of misleading information that is repeated frequently about aflatoxins, such as avoiding the feeding of crickets will keep your glider safe from aflatoxins, which really is not true shakehead Thanks for the clarification on what is really the culprit sugarlope thumb

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