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#59575 - 09/26/05 07:03 AM stressed mom and hurt joeys

I have two joeys that have been attacked by their mom twice in the past two days. Both have been scratched/bit on one of their eyes and are missing a small patch of fur around them. The first time it happened, I took it to mean that she was stressed b/c I hadn't watched them the night before. I was sick and laid down for a nap but never got back up. I cleaned them up some and put them back in and last night the smaller one was attacked again it appeared.

I then decided to pull both of them for the night and feed them. I set up the aquarium we have and put in some fleece blankies and two pouches for both sides (warm and cool) of the aquarium and put a heating pad on half.

The one female is smaller and it appears she isn't being fed as much. She will eat everytime I got her up to and just loves to sit on Phillip's hand while he loves no her it's so adorable.

The other female is a good size and well fed but will hardly let us feed her. Do you think it would be wise to put her back in with mom and watch her closely? I hesitate to put both back in b/c the little one seems so starved for food and attention.. I think she is better off with her human mommy.

My last question is how to tell if they've gone potty.. in order to stmiulate them with a q-tip I have to hold them on their backs... but it's hard to tell if they have tinckled and I want to make sure they are going potty.

I just fed them last at 6am and Phillip will be feeding them again at 9 before heads into work. I will speed home on my lunchbreak (I'm glad I'm only 4 miles away) and feed them again at noon and then when I get home at 4 and on and off the whole night and so the story goes.

Right now they are a few days over 2 weeks (I had thought they were 3 weeks but my days are messed up)... when will they be able to go longer without feedings and what would a schedule be like at that point.

I have a lot of confidence that they will be fine but I am worried sick still, you know how that goes.

#59576 - 09/26/05 08:02 AM Re: stressed mom and hurt joeys [Re: ]

Oh my Tonia, I'm so sorry you are having so much trouble...

First off, when you stimlulate them, use a q-tip rinsed in warm water. I usually just run it from their belly toawards their tail a few times and they go. It will be yellowish-brown and you'll be able to see it.

The last joeys I hand fed, I was working full time while feeding. I would feed them before work, hand them off to Ian to hold on to, feed them on my lunch break, then feed them when I got off work. I didn't feed them during the night, but I usually only sleep about 6 hours, so I would feed them when I got up. I was also very lucky to have Smegal to baby sit during the night, made life much easier...

If you need any help, let me know. I'm only working 4 hour shifts for the next week or so until my new job starts, so I have plently of time to care for them or answer questions.

#59577 - 09/26/05 08:32 AM Re: stressed mom and hurt joeys [Re: ]

Well the big thing I am wondering is if I can put one back in with mom. the one will literally attack me rather than be fed by me.... this is the larger one.. the one that mom was feeding. Since I've had them pulled since last night would it be okay?

thanks so much for the thoughts and wishes Leyna... I am just [censored] out terribly right now....It's not been a good weekend to begin with and I don't want to lose these babies. They are so loving and adorable... they need me now too.

How long of a time period do you stimulate them.. and when do you do it (before feedings, after,... every 2 hours...)

#59578 - 09/26/05 09:55 AM Re: stressed mom and hurt joeys [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
What you have discribed sounds alot like what Monster (Gina) is going through with her twins. Mom isn't producing enough milk so was only letting one joey nurse. (fortunately she was letting them rotate) She would let one joey attach to a nipple but then would attack the other one when it tried. Instead of full out pulling them, she started suppliment feeding them. Also, I believe she is keeping them all with her all the time so she can watch them. She also changed Mom's diet and things are going better, not perfect, but better. I'll send her notice to come take a look at this thread and maybe she can be more help.

I think if it were me, I would try to keep them all together BUT feed the smaller one. Also, where's dad? Is he helping with the joeys?
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance

The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

#59579 - 09/26/05 10:24 AM Re: stressed mom and hurt joeys [Re: ]

Dad passed away a month before they were born. She's never had this problem before and I think it's stress even tho I try to help her babysit as much as she will let me and I am able.

I cannot keep them with me all day long as I work. I had supplemented Friday and Saturday but she still attacked them so last night after seeing the one and crying I took them both. They are now both in an incubator setup and being fed every 3 hours but the bigger one refuses to eat... would it be okay to try to put her back in with mom even tho she's been away from her? The little one I refuse to put back in.. she's beat up the most even tho both of them have very bad injuries to the eye that are going to be seen by the vet.

#59580 - 09/26/05 10:37 AM Re: stressed mom and hurt joeys [Re: ]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
Tonia, place a piece of kleenex or toilet paper over their little bellies when you stimulate them, and you will be able to see if they pottied.
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.

#59581 - 09/26/05 10:50 AM Re: stressed mom and hurt joeys [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
You can try to put the larger one back in with the mother. Wipe her down good with the pouch or a blankie the mother is sleeping in to rub off any bad odors she dislikes.

Problem I see with having the babies out so long... is the mother may be engorged now from lack of anyone nursing which may make nursing more difficult.

Is there anyone in your area who can help you at all with the babies?

Be sure to get an eye ointment that is a triple antibiotic to help prevent infection from your vet. Also, little ones may need to be sub'q'd if not eating well just yet. Another 24 to 48 hours with them... things will go smoother.

As to the potty thing... I place the baby on a white paper towel and lift the back end up and then stroke with a warm wet kleenex or Q'tip. WIthin a minute or two... baby will eleminate. Remember if there is not much food in their GI tract... there will not be much to eleminate. Suggest you feed them and then let the mother clean them up and potty them. Make sure you rub the babies down first with material from the sleeping pouch to rid any objectable odors on them that the mother will dislike. Be sure to remove the babies on time so they are not trying to nurse.

If the babies are less than 20 grams... you will need to feed them every two hours for another week.

Oh, I forgot to mention... trim the nails on the mother so they are blunt. This will help prevent her from slicing the babies up with her sharp nails when she swipes at them with her paws. Have the vet do a wellness check on her as well since she lost her other half. Stress has a way of causing bacterial illness that do not show in the beginning.

Edited by Judie (09/26/05 11:02 AM)

#59582 - 09/26/05 11:04 AM Re: stressed mom and hurt joeys [Re: ]

There isn't really anyone around here. I have put a triple antibiotic ointment on their eyes... how often do I need to apply this?

The smaller one is eating fine, going to weigh her this afternoon... larger one is the one that is refusing to eat.. i am home now to try again though so i am going to go do that now since i only have so long on my lunch break.

thanks so much everyone

#59583 - 09/26/05 11:53 AM Re: stressed mom and hurt joeys [Re: ]

Aradia is 18g and Anu is 28g. Both of them ate a full cc when I was home to check on them. Both of them pottied a little but not much and neither was dehydrated.

#59584 - 09/26/05 01:51 PM Re: stressed mom and hurt joeys [Re: ]

Tonia, if you need help, feel free to call me. My number is 419-796-0088

#59585 - 09/26/05 01:56 PM Re: stressed mom and hurt joeys [Re: ]

i might need to when i start [censored] out again.... i think i've calmed myself down a little today knowing that both were eating...

#59586 - 09/26/05 03:28 PM Re: stressed mom and hurt joeys [Re: ]

Best of luck, I hope these girls pull thru okay!

#59587 - 09/26/05 05:17 PM Re: stressed mom and hurt joeys [Re: ]

We had a pair of joeys come OOP on the 4th of July of this year. When we handled the joeys for the first time, I mentioned to Marvin that I did not like the way the joeys' heads felt, as it felt coarse, like sandpaper. I was very apprehensive about putting the joeys back with mom and dad, but we knew what to look for and keep an eye on them, so we put them back for the night. The next morning, we checked on them again and both joeys had a small open wound on top of their heads, about the size of a pencil eraser. Marvin looked at me and said we would keep a closer eye on them now and he decided to put them back one more time. The next following morning, both had a gash from their noses to the wound on top of their heads; the little boy had it worse than his sister did. I said that was it, we were pulling them. We began handfeeding them every 2 hours around the clock. I stayed up late and Marvin got up early in the morning with the feedings. The little boy did not make it, due to extreme severity of the wound. The little girl is healthy and is such a sweetheart.

Between feedings I kept them under my shirt, in a joey pouch with fleece blankets, to keep them extra warm. We also made sure the joeys were warm before feeding, as they would not feed if cold. We used wet and warm Q-tips to stimulate them to excrete their bowels and urine.

We did the same thing with another joey whose mom had 2IP and didn't have enough milk for him. We also had to pull him.

TMarie, please keep us updated on how the joeys are doing.


#59588 - 09/26/05 05:50 PM Re: stressed mom and hurt joeys [Re: ]

I have to say I am feeling a little more upbeat than I was before but I almost have to have anothe rperson hold them to stimulate them to go potty b/c they will not sit still and i'm scared I'm going to break them.... the little girl just ate 1.5cc's and the the bigger one ae 1.2 after coaxing her a bit and getting her to realize it was good.. then she got it all over her face LOL...

I am hoping the smaller one stays healthy..

the eyes are looking better by the day but still lots of fur missing. i'll try to take some pictures here in a second.. right now they are getting loved on <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

#59589 - 09/26/05 06:18 PM Re: stressed mom and hurt joeys [Re: ]

Awwwww, that bond!!! There is no other bond quite like it! I know, as we have two of them and the bonds are so special!

Love on them as much as you want! Give them a kiss for me. You are doing great!


#59590 - 09/26/05 06:28 PM Re: stressed mom and hurt joeys [Re: ]

Oh I'm lovin on them bunches... tho right now they are tickling me squirming in their pouch that is in my shirt lol

#59591 - 09/30/05 12:01 PM Re: stressed mom and hurt joeys [Re: ]

Well today their stool was a litlte runny when I fed them on my lunch break. Right now they are geting the original leadbeaters mixed with some wombaroo mixture (wombaroo and water)... should i just try leadbeaters?

#59592 - 11/02/05 06:00 PM Re: stressed mom and hurt joeys [Re: ]

Okay they are jumping running, playing on a full sized stealth wheel (and with finesse too)....

They will be 8 weeks on Thursday...

Only issue I am having now... food

They still have issues with solid foods and don't like to drink water or juice...

They are down to eating once a day... sometimes twice.. but how in the world do I get them to eat? I would hate to force them but I might have to just only give them solids for awhile if that is how it's done.... i have chopped, diced, processed and still nothing... i think this is why they haven't gained much weight in the past week or two either... Hope is at 36g and Faith at 42g.

If anyone has any advice I would GREATLY appreciate it.


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