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#60992 - 10/04/05 11:13 AM handling joeys...
Anonymous
Unregistered


We lost our first pr of twins at about 1 week oop...maybe rejected because mom was about 9 months or MAYBE because we handled them a tiny bit...Our breed told me DO NOT touch them until the eyes are open or they will get rejected. True or false? He also says to get them OUT of the nest by 3 weeks after the eyes are open because the male might kill them to start breeding again...T or F? Is my breeder center line or way off course. We felt terrible after losing the first pair a day apart...they were out of the nest on the cage floor..and can stand losing these cuties...heed quick advice please...email []ppcdoc@bellsouth.net[/] thanks


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#60993 - 10/04/05 11:20 AM Re: handling joeys... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am not a breeder, but from what I've read, lots of people handle their joeys from day one OOP. I don't think you did anything wrong, if you just took them out for a few minutes.

As for taking them out of the nest, does he mean take them away from mom at like 5 weeks OOP(<2 weeks for eyes to open + 3 more weeks)?! If that's what they said, I would say that is WAY off base. You should NEVER remove joeys from their parents until at least 8 weeks OOP.

Hopefully breeders will be here soon to correct me if I'm wrong (although I know I'm not on the 8 weeks thing) and help more.

There are lots of things that can happen to cause joeys to be abandoned. A lot of times it's something wrong with them that you can't even tell about, but mom and dad glider can.

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#60994 - 10/04/05 11:21 AM Re: handling joeys... [Re: ]
Carrie T Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/01
Posts: 4049
Loc: Doniphan Mo
If it's true I must be one very lucky person. I've handled all four of my babies from first day oop. I only take them out for a few minutes to start with and gradually increase the time as they get older. I'm so sorry to hear about your first babies but I believe it had nothing to do with your handling of them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

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#60995 - 10/04/05 11:22 AM Re: handling joeys... [Re: ]
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 6249
Loc: Kansas
OK, your are getting some really bad breeder informations. Sorry about that. First, you can usually handle joeys for a few minutes from the first few days. But, since you have already lost gliders to rejection, I would wait. Look at them daily to make sure they are being taken care of and looking fatter. Also, make sure you do not have the scent of any other animal on you, glider, cat, dog, etc. Do a lot of reading in breeding and babies, type in rejected joey's in a search so you can read all there is, prepare yourself just in case it happens again. Often some mothers are too you, diet is not right, something is wrong with the joey that we can't see, but parents know. So, check out rejected joey posts and diet post.

Now, FALSE, you do not take the joeys away from parents at 3 weeks. NO WAY. It is best for joeys' to stay with parents till at least 8 weeks, and showing they will eat on their own. 3 weeks is too young, they are still nursing from mom and unable to maintain their own body heat. So, whoever this breeder is, sorry, but do not listen to him/her.

With such wrong information coming from this breeder, I am wondering what type of diet you have them all. What to make sure it is a good proven diet. Can you tell us what diet they are on, what are they sleeping in, size cage. Etc. and we will try to help you out. I would hate for you to lose another pair.

I won't be around much today, have appointments, but someone will be back to answer you if I am not.

Welcome to GC, glad you found us.
_________________________
Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon

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#60996 - 10/04/05 11:22 AM Re: handling joeys... [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I have had 16 joeys born in my home including a set of triplets. I have handled all of them from day one oop and have never lost a joey. Also, they need to stay with BOTH their parents until they are atleast 8 weeks oop. Dad will babysit while mom exercises and eats. He will help groom them and care for them and his role is very important. Joeys will nurse for anywhere from (on average) 6-8 weeks but some even longer so it is important to keep them with their parents.

I'm sorry you lost some joeys. It is always so hard to know WHY it happens. Sometimes there is a problem with mom not producing enough milk or mom could get an infection in her pouch where it makes it hurt her for the joeys to nurse.
When I have an expectant mom, I put them in a nest box on the floor of my cage until the joeys are out and moving around the cage very well (about 7-8 weeks oop).

I would suggest increasing their (specifically moms) protien intake during pregnacy and while she is nursing. A good proven diet is essential to your glider's health and her ability to support nursing joeys.

Often nature knows best and we just have to accept it.

(oh, I looked at the pic <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> but I have to warn you about the pouch they are in. It is made from a knit fabric that could "pull" and cause loops that can wrap around little toes, feet even heads and bodies causing serious injury or even death. Please take the time to read THIS post about safe sleeping.)


Edited by Dancing (10/04/05 11:29 AM)
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#60997 - 10/04/05 11:25 AM Re: handling joeys... [Re: ]
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 6249
Loc: Kansas
LOL, 4 mods jumping all at once to answer this post. Larry, can you see you got us all going? You've gotten a lot of good advice.
I forgot to to tell you, the fathers will rebreed, but that is way down the road. You can leave female joeys in with mom and dad for several months. It is not normal for fathers to kill their joeys, it does happen, but infrequently
_________________________
Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon

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#60998 - 10/04/05 11:33 AM Re: handling joeys... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


they are on the strict bml diet with fruits/veggies and about 3-6 mealies a day each, plus one yogurt drop each per day...they are in a 42x15x30 inch cage....sleeping arrangements are worrisome now because they are now in a quart wide mouth jar with sweatshirt sleeve for lining..the joeys will get between the fabric and glass and Im not sure the momma cares or is smart enough to retrieve them...dont want to change housing too much but one of the joeys is really wanting to wander, even tho eyes are still closed..thanks for the info

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#60999 - 10/04/05 11:36 AM Re: handling joeys... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


my male is a stud! He has already been ON her and he and she rolling on the floor in a ball of fur and claws with her crabbing away

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#61000 - 10/04/05 11:41 AM Re: handling joeys... [Re: ]
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 6249
Loc: Kansas
I posted to you in your pouch thread. Anyways, your male has been with who? The mom or the joeys. Yes he will try to rebreed with mom, but not the joeys. I told you in the other one, but I think you need a pouch for them to sleep ing (see ads in Glider Things) and I think babies must not be getting enough of mom and dad to keep warm, and not getting enough to eat. Well feed and warm joeys do not wander. Please read all you can find on supplimenting joeys.
_________________________
Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon

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#61001 - 10/04/05 11:42 AM Re: handling joeys... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ive tried changing the nest material around...cut up velour strips...and mom and dad went to sleep in the wheel! So I realize I shouldnt be changing the bedding/nest but feel like I need to do something...what kind of material and what should I try as a nest box without them wanting to sleep in the wheel without the joeys..

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#61002 - 10/04/05 11:48 AM Re: handling joeys... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


he has been on his mate...not the joeys..the babies are quiet and not fussing and look ok to me...not overly skinny Ill post a recent pic...


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468141-139-3919_IMG.JPG (75 downloads)


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#61003 - 10/04/05 11:51 AM a better pic [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


here


Attachments
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#61004 - 10/04/05 06:08 PM BAD news... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I was about to transfer the family to a new nesting box and when unloading the nest sleeve I found both dead..within the past few hours...no damage..a male and female...I weighed them at 7.5 gm each...apparently very light for 9 days oop acccording to info here. Any comments/suggestions...this is now 0 for 2 with twins. Ive attached a pic...apparently mom isnt nursing/caring for them enough...??


Attachments
468351-139-3923_IMG.JPG (69 downloads)



Edited by Larry_Cohen (10/04/05 06:10 PM)

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#61005 - 10/04/05 06:14 PM Re: BAD news... [Re: ]
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 6249
Loc: Kansas
Oh Larry, I am so sorry. I was afraid these babies were cold and hungry. No fault of yours. Some glider moms are just not meant to be moms. As much as you'd like to have joey's I am sure. After 4 joeys, I'd have dad neutered. Again, so sorry. Been there and it is so sad to see them like that.
_________________________
Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon

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#61006 - 10/04/05 06:29 PM Re: BAD news... [Re: ]
KarenE Offline
Owner

Registered: 03/25/00
Posts: 41295
Loc: LittleRock, AR USA
[:"blue"] I'm so sorry this has happened, Larry and can't believe it happened from the time we talked on the telephone until I got your e-mail.

You have been given the same advice we talked about and I also suggested getting dad neutered.

If you want to have joeys, it appears it would be better to get another pair ... but maybe not from the same breeder <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" /> [/]
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#61007 - 10/04/05 06:32 PM Re: BAD news... [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Larry, I am so sorry...

Yes, 7.5 grams is very small even for 1 day oop joeys. This is not your fault. You have them on a good diet and some things are just not meant to be.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#61008 - 10/04/05 08:31 PM Re: BAD news... [Re: ]
Carrie T Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/01
Posts: 4049
Loc: Doniphan Mo
I'm so sorry Larry. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

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#61009 - 10/04/05 11:05 PM Re: BAD news... [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Gosh... this a sad. Always is, when loosing babies. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

From the pictures... the babies are blue looking in the face which is usually from them having died due to being cold which was probably a result from being severely dehydrated.

Key to the problem... baby wandering around... even with his eyes closed. Babies do not do this... unless very very hungry and will try to look for a willing food source. So... the cause for the dehydration in the little ones was the lack of milk from the mother.

As for the mother... most mothers will nip at their little ones to prevent them from nursing when their supply does not keep up with the demands of the babies.

Stress can interfear with the mother's ability to produce milk. Rebreeding too quickly for some females will do the same thing... interfear with the supply of milk.

Suggest trying one more time with this pair... and if that fails... then you may want to consider neutering the male and enjoy the pair of gliders as pet only.

Also, suggest you be prepared to Supplement the next set of babies for a few weeks. Have your supplies ready... and practice feeding the BML to the adults. Directions are explained in the above Sticky (Post with a Yellow Tack) in this forum.... "How to Handfeed a Joey".

Good Luck. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#61010 - 10/05/05 07:16 AM Re: BAD news... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I feel really terrible that I got bad info from my breeder PLUS didnt know what was going on this time until it was too late..and this is a repeat of the first twins outcome..only with this set they were always quiet...the others were fussing all the time and we just thought it was normal baby sounds OR mom sounds...Mom hasnt been environmentally stressed..my pair is very low key and not afraid of anyone/anything. She is a very small animal but havent been able to weigh her and that may be our problem....We even take them on long trips in our motorhome. They sleep right above the noisy engine and do great!
I will give them one more try and plan to supplement feed. I didnt find that sticky you mentioned....and thanks to ALL for your advice about this sad situation


Edited by Larry_Cohen (10/05/05 07:19 AM)

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#61011 - 10/05/05 07:28 PM Re: BAD news... [Re: ]
SweetGliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/17/01
Posts: 2400
Loc: Tulsa, OK, USA
Larry,

I am so sorry you got bad advise from your breeder and in turn lost your babies. Please Go under the Main Menu page on GC. check out Breeding & Babies topic.
3rd sticky note down from the top reads:
How to feed a joey. By Chey - short for Cheyenne .

This is the information you need to keep on hand in reference to taking care of and hand feeding a reject joey on instruction from Judie.

Please let me know if you can't locate it. I'll be glad to send it to you.

Anita <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />


Edited by SweetGliders (10/05/05 07:30 PM)
_________________________
Anita heart
www.mysweetgliders.com

Owned by many Gliders & Cats + Wife to a Wonderful & Understanding Husband


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#61012 - 10/05/05 07:51 PM Re: BAD news... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Anita!
You would not believe how sad and disappointed me and my wife are since yesterday. If we ONLY knew why we lost the first set we maybe could have saved these guys...I was so looking forward to raising 1 or 2 joeys, even if I had to supplement feed them...and to think they starved to death is a very grinding thought. If I knew then what I now know, they might be with us now... Mom is a VERY small glider...about 1/3 the size of the male...I need to weigh her some day...she is very healthy and active, but small.
Ive saved the feeding info for next time..and I WILL handle the baby(s) from day one and start feeding early on as well....thanks for your info...I just wish I knew all this stuff a week ago <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" />

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#61013 - 10/05/05 08:00 PM Re: BAD news... [Re: ]
Xglider Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 11157
Loc: Tampa, FL
Larry … I am so sorry for you lost babies… I can say I would be “messed up” over it too… I am glad you have come to and found GC… so much information is offered and shared here… I am sorry that it did not arrive in time…

Just remember you all will meet at the rainbow end…
_________________________
* ~ * John * ~ * Sorry store is closed at this time.. <br>
Link -> ~~ XtremeGlider ~~ Home of the original Re~set Toys! ~~ <br>
Oct 2012 update.. miss my gliders and my
glider family and think of my friends often!!!

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#61014 - 10/05/05 11:39 PM Re: BAD news... [Re: ]
SweetGliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/17/01
Posts: 2400
Loc: Tulsa, OK, USA
Larry,
Just keep telling yourself it just ment to be, right now. I have been down that road several times and you can't help but to blame yourself. But listen to me. It's not your fault. You and your wife were given bad information and you didn't know. Things will happen that we have no control over but we can be prepared for these situations if they come about in the future.

I had a couple that brought me a baby at 6-7 days OOP. Her mother killed her twin sister, and they were afraid for this baby so they pulled this little girl and brought her to me. So was so dehydrated and so weak I told them I didn't know if I could save her or not, but I would try.

Angelina just will be 8 weeks OOP this Friday and she is doing great. So please keep this information on hand on How to feed a joey and keep you your chin up. Please contact me anytime if you just want to talk. I am a night person so I am always on my computer late at night.

And sorry again for your lose. Remember your babies are watching over you and your wife. They are playing over the Rainbow Bridge where you all will meet again one day.

Sending hugs your way. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

Anita <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Anita heart
www.mysweetgliders.com

Owned by many Gliders & Cats + Wife to a Wonderful & Understanding Husband


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#61015 - 10/06/05 11:35 AM thanks for your input/support [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I AM going to have a litter that survives next time...gonna do what I need to let them survive..Im disappointed I wont be bonding with these lost babies...I was looking forward to a bunch of crabbing...next time............... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

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#61016 - 10/09/05 05:50 AM Re: thanks for your input/support [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


aww im sorry hun good luck with the next set if it doesnt work out id Really suggest getting a diffrent pair of breeders and doing the snip snip to this set they can still be the best buddys they r now just maybe not ment to be mommie and daddy
think about it this way how many people do you see not takeing good care of there kiddos it happens in Every form or nature just keep you chin up you will get it soon!

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